I have a cabin build thread going (no building yet, just moving dirt and such) where I mentioned I was building a sawmill (bandmill). So, here is the official build thread...
I started my build quite some time ago (almost embarrassed to say close to 2 years... ::)). I made one set of track (16') and cut the material to make two more (16'-6" and 8') that will plug into each other giving me a total cut length of around 35' that I need for some massive beams that will be spliced together to make five 54' beams.
I've posted this picture before - this is the bed/track I've completed so far. The rail is 2x3x¼ angle iron sitting on some #5 'C' profile iron on 2x4x¼ box beams. The jacks are 2,000 lb rated that I got for free from a friends scrap (12 of them). The log stops and dogs are not installed in this picture. The log bunk design is borrowed from another FF member's build.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/150107_005.jpg)
DISCLAIMER: YES, I will install blade guards!
So here is the head. I had to suspend it from my ceiling joists in my garage to lay it down to remove it. It stands seven feet tall and my garage header is 6'8" ::) It is made from a salvaged computer rack (uprights) and some salvaged 2x2 thin wall frames that were originally 4'x8' but I made them roughly 2'x8'. This is a vertical mill - you can cut the trees while they are still standing :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_head_1.jpg)
Setting it up on the track
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_head_2.jpg)
I salvaged some gearing from some large rolling file cabinets that were being thrown out at my old work. Combining a bunch, I made this hoist setup.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Lift_gearing_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Lift_gearing_2.jpg)
The head is pretty darn heavy so I added a "tool balancer" that has about 40lb of lift, running through the block giving me 80+lb of lift. It is the white thing hanging at the top with the ¼" cable. I have a smaller 25lb one on the other side. If I let the hoist go, it will descend slowly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Lift_gearing_3.jpg)
I have a 2.5hp treadmill motor running it. I cut a double V groove (to match the pulley installed on the back of the tire rim) in the flywheel. It measures out a 8" and is turning the 14" pulley attached to 21.5" doughnut spare tires.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Drive_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Drive_2.jpg)
I parted out a scissor jack to make the blade tension system. The hubs are from the rear end of a front wheel drive Toyota. They pivot to adjust tracking and a small bolt sets the angle (on the wheel side). The blade tracks really well.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Tension_Adjustment.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Toe_alignment_idle_side.jpg)
More pictures to come. I just noticed I didn't get the blade guides (home made).
I had picked up a redwood tree (three 8-9' lengths) a while back and they have been paitenly waiting on my mill build. They ended up getting a little dry rot but were a good exercise for my mill. It cut true (though not completely square) with no wave.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Punky_Redwod.jpg)
Issues: I designed the drive system ratios because of what I read about blade speed. My calcs were based on the need for about 60mph (5,000 fpm) top end. I used the motors top rated rpm. I haven't had the guts to run it flat out yet. My ratio gives about 4.26 times the speed the tread mill thinks the old belt is moving. The tread mill maxes out at 10mph, or tire speed of 42.6mph (3,750fpm) blade speed. I've run it up to 5.5mph (6 once or twice). It cuts quite well at that speed but starts to bog down. The logic in the controller doesn't want to make quick adjustments (for safety of the runner), so it has a bit of trouble catching up if I bog it too much. If I keep running at 4.5 mph or better, it keeps up until it pops the circuit breaker on the controller (15amp).
Several times, it has gone into a runaway mode - not sure why. It will just keep getting faster until the breaker pops. It usually pops about 6.5mph (~2,500fpm). But it sure cuts fast when it is moving that fast.
Options: I like running on electric and have a couple of options.
1) I could redo the ratio to halve the tire speed so the motor will need to run faster giving more torque. I think that will solve the bogging and circuit popping issues.
2) I might have a DC controller that would work for this motor. However, it wouldn't have the feedback loop to try and maintain a set speed. I would have to "play it by ear" when cutting.
Option 3 would be to install a 7hp gas engine I have laying around (I think it runs). While this would make it completely portable, it would be heavier, noisier and I would need to rework the belting ratios.
Comments or suggestions?
You could make a cheap fixed one speed DC power supply for your motor.
And if you still need more power you could hit up the junkyard for another motor and have two
mounted at the same time.
Sounds like it cuts good.
:o You have lotsa hardware in that build.
The DC controllers that I have are only good to 1hp so no-go on a replacement.
Here is the blade guides. The idle side only has to do a little down pressure because when I redid the blade tension setup, I move the idle wheel down a little. Those bearing stay nice and cool.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_blade_guide_idle_side_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_blade_guide_idle_side_2.jpg)
The drive side has a bit of down pressure and the bearing does get a bit warm. When I start running coolant, it will be getting a good bath and should be ok.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_blade_guide_drive_side_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_blade_guide_drive_side_2.jpg)
The red handles lock the side to side movement, bolts lock the tilt angles and in/out against the blade movement.
Update on operation: I ran the unit up to to speed. When it hits 7.1 mph (treadmill speed), the 15 amp breaker pops so there is not enough power to run the mill in the current configuration. I was able to set the speed to 5.5 and keep it going (bogging down) to 4.5 or so. That let me cut some boards from the 8' redwood log. It took way too long - the treadmill console has a timer on it - one board took 6 minutes, the next about 5. As Tim the Toolman would say, "more power!, Arrh arrh arrh".
I'm planning on mounting up a 7hp Subaru engine from a power washer and see how that goes. I'm using 1.25" Woodmizer blades - any recommendations on the blade speed with this size engine?
Pretty impressive build, I must say! I think going to the gas engine will be better for now but I think you'll still want and need more power for any kind of efficient milling. I bought a Honda clone from Harbor Freight, the 13hp 420cc engine and I'm very happy with it. Those engines now have raving reviews and I agree. With the 20% off coupon and 2 year replacement warranty with no questions asked it came out to around $380 if I remember correctly. I realize that it's easy for me to spend your money but I'm just sharing what I know to work well. They also have at least a 5hp electric motor there for around $200. I actually had an employee tell me that when the two years is about up to just blow the engine up and come back and get a new one. Can you imagine? My conscience wouldn't allow me to do that and I said that. He said that's what all the contractors around there do. I just politely shrugged it off and continued on. Kbeitz's idea of running 2 motors together would be easy enough to do and would probably work just fine as well!
I got a 13hp Honda engine on my homemade mill. My band wheels are 17" dim.
My ratio is 5 to one . Hope this helps.
Note.
I need to run WOT so I don't get waves. So maybe 4 or 4.5 to one might be a little better.
I wont change my mill because it's working great at WOT.
Maybe someone can help me out. I not the best with math.
But the way I look at it my blade is running at 4533fps.
3200RPM engine speed X 17 inch wheel divided X 12 to get feet = 4533... Right ???
Quote from: Kbeitz on July 12, 2015, 11:46:57 AM
I got a 13hp Honda engine on my homemade mill. My band wheels are 17" dim.
My ratio is 5 to one . Hope this helps.
Note.
I need to run WOT so I don't get waves. So maybe 4 or 4.5 to one might be a little better.
I wont change my mill because it's working great at WOT.
Maybe someone can help me out. I not the best with math.
But the way I look at it my blade is running at 4533fpm.
3200RPM engine speed X 17 inch wheel divided X 12 to get feet = 4533... Right ???
Opps... Wait... I think I forgot to also divide that by my 5 to one ratio.
That would take me down to 906 FPM
Wow... I never looked at my speed before... My speed looks slow...
So I googled it and came up with this...
Here are some guidelines: 8 hp max speed 3,500 fpm, 12 hp max speed 4,000 fpm, 16 to 18 hp max speed 4,500 fpm, 25 hp max speed 5,000 fpm, 30 hp and above max speed 5,500 fpm.
off this link...
https://www.cookssaw.com/index.php/increase-portable-sawmill-profits-a-production/how-fast-should-a-bandwheel-turn
I cant beleve my saw cuts so good. Unless my math is off... Anyone want to check ?
The 7hp motor I have I received from my neighbor. He hadn't run it in a number of years. I found a gas tank with a bit of water and tons of rust. The carb bowl was packed with rust and the fuel cutoff valve wouldn't budge. :( I happened to have parted out a Honda lawnmower (bent crank) and saved the carb. It fit but is rotated a little. Rebent the governor linkage and it fired right up (once I turned the gas valve the right way! :D) Only problem is the linkage is backwards, wants to run flat out! But it runs 8)
Kbeitz
The forum caculator has you at about 3000 fpm =/-. It is located at the toolbox icon at the bottom of all the adds on the left of your screen. It does the math for you and for me and I would be losts without these types of caculators.
gww
Quote from: gww on July 12, 2015, 01:58:25 PM
Kbeitz
The forum caculator has you at about 3000 fpm =/-. It is located at the toolbox icon at the bottom of all the adds on the left of your screen. It does the math for you and for me and I would be losts without these types of caculators.
gww
Thanks..., But thats not going to work for me ...
My system has a jack shaft so I have 4 pulleys .
That program uses 2.
K
Got you, well that takes me out of the ball game, Member "Stroker" figured my jackshaft speed out for me.
gww
Quote from: Kbeitz on July 12, 2015, 11:46:57 AM
I got a 13hp Honda engine on my homemade mill. My band wheels are 17" dim.
My ratio is 5 to one . Hope this helps.
Note.
I need to run WOT so I don't get waves. So maybe 4 or 4.5 to one might be a little better.
I wont change my mill because it's working great at WOT.
Maybe someone can help me out. I not the best with math.
But the way I look at it my blade is running at 4533fps.
3200RPM engine speed X 17 inch wheel divided X 12 to get feet = 4533... Right ???
3200 engine rpm / 5 to one ratio = 640 wheel rpm
17" dia wheel X 3.14 / 12 = 4.45 ft per revolution of wheel
640 rpm x 4.45 ft/rev = 2848 ft/min
Assuming that I understand your rig.
Quote from: Den-Den on July 12, 2015, 09:44:02 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on July 12, 2015, 11:46:57 AM
I got a 13hp Honda engine on my homemade mill. My band wheels are 17" dim.
My ratio is 5 to one . Hope this helps.
Note.
I need to run WOT so I don't get waves. So maybe 4 or 4.5 to one might be a little better.
I wont change my mill because it's working great at WOT.
Maybe someone can help me out. I not the best with math.
But the way I look at it my blade is running at 4533fps.
3200RPM engine speed X 17 inch wheel divided X 12 to get feet = 4533... Right ???
3200 engine rpm / 5 to one ratio = 640 wheel rpm
17" dia wheel X 3.14 / 12 = 4.45 ft per revolution of wheel
640 rpm x 4.45 ft/rev = 2848 ft/min
Assuming that I understand your rig.
You got it...
I forgot to do the X 3.14 ...
Thanks.
Did you guys notice me over here in the corner silently nodding my head in solemn agreement as if I knew what you were talking about?
Numbers... smiley_fused_bomb
I'm very glad there's so many capable members on this forum.
ljohnsaw:
Very nice work on the fabrication, you have spent some time on this. You are seriously underpowered with the treadmill motor. It probably could be made to work but your fabrication efforts deserve a bigger, better motor or engine. Whatever power source you end up with; you need to match the power with band speed. Two guys have cut big logs with a pit saw, that is less than one horse power. The blade speed of a pit saw is no where near that of a commercial bandmill. Lower power needs lower band speed so that the power is not wasted on friction and making fine dust.
Quote from: Ox on July 13, 2015, 11:03:42 AM
Did you guys notice me over here in the corner silently nodding my head in solemn agreement as if I knew what you were talking about?
Numbers... smiley_fused_bomb
I'm very glad there's so many capable members on this forum.
:D my wife refers to me as a human calculator.
Plowboy - I surely am envious. Being good at ciphering would make my life quite a bit easier.
I'm waiting on some dual v-belt pulleys - should be in by Friday.
I redid the linkage on the replacement carb and the 7hp engine runs as it should. Has a nice low, smooth idle and a solid top end. I changed the oil once it warmed up - wasn't too bad for sitting so long. I pulled the electrics off my mill and was surprised. I forgot how heavy the tread mill motor was! I think the gas engine is lighter! I mounted the gas engine, added a throttle cable over to the operator side along with an additional cut off switch.
Now I need to make a pulley on a lever to engage the belt for a positive engagement. The single grove clutch I have is too small of a shaft diameter anyhow. And make the blade guard. And, according to may son, paint it all the same color ::)
Painting sounds like a good for anybody else but you. I hate painting so much that I wouldn't care if it was all runs and fisheyes as long as I didn't have to do it!
After painting a few cars and trucks and tractors and a sawmill I realize I despise everything about it but it's a necessary evil sometimes.
Although when I pull off the masking I enjoy watching it come alive.
What color does your son suggest? I think any color besides rainbows and "hot" colors would look nice.
Just imagine driving along and seeing a hot pink sawmill. :D
Now why would it all have to be the same color? Boring.
Quote from: Ox on July 15, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
<<snip>>
What color does your son suggest? I think any color besides rainbows and "hot" colors would look nice.
Just imagine driving along and seeing a hot pink sawmill. :D
He really doesn't care, as long as its one color. I am using silver for a couple of reasons. When it fades in the sun, no one will notice and with our blazing summers, silver does not get so hot that you brand yourself when you bump it.
UPS says my pulley is out for delivery. In the meantime, I added a lube system. I picked up these neat little flexible hoses off of Amazon. I think it was a 4 pack of 12 to 16" hoses and were pretty cheap. You can add and subtract one or more joints as needed. Since they are rather thin tubes (meant for a pressure system on metal working tools), I used two.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_blade_lube_1.jpg)
As it turns out, they flow REALLY well. My bottle neck is my two ball valves that only have a small hole in them. Once I cleared the lube grease out, they work fairly well. I expect them to get better as the lube system washes out the remnants of the grease. The upper one to turn on/off and the lower to set the flow rate. I purposely put it out of the way so I wouldn't be tempted to use it for on/off.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_blade_lube_2.jpg)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, UPS delivered my first pulley that I bought off of eBay - not as described and unusable. Trying to see if I can return for a full refund. But I made further progress. Here is the start of the blade guard:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_guard_1.jpg)
I had some 1" tube frames I cut in half to make the sideways U brackets to fit around the hubs. The black metal was some of the file system cabinets that housed some chain and gears. I have one more that I won't bend to span the top between the two ends. Then I will fill the bottom and front with a removable wood panel to catch the blade should it pop off or break, or to replace the blade. The sawdust exit hole on the end will have a deflector install to shoot the dust down, probably into a bucket, and to stop a broken blade. The clearance between the wheel/blade and the guard is about 1-½" - just enough room to squeeze my hand in there to install the bolts and cut myself on the sharp blade ::) Being really sharp, I never felt it.
I always end up looking like a snake got me when I handle blades. :D
Your mill looks good, buddy! I hate to say this, but the lube "should" be flowing on the blade before it enters the log. It may work just fine where it is, I don't know, but all the manufacturers I've seen put it just after the idle side blade guide. This way the lube is directly on the blade as it enters the cut and not getting mostly slung off on the way around to enter the cut.
I never saw a silver sawmill and I think I like it!
Silver is a nice lookin color. But i think it is one of the worst colors to hold up to the weather.
Around here it's the silver cars/trucks that rust out first.
I'm liking the contrast of the black guards already.
My biggest complaint of W-M orange is the fading. Anything with red in it won't stand up to the sun, except maybe red barn paint and Rustoleum primer. Us navy vets will either love or hate gray. Forest green is a favorite of mine, but not for a mill, methinks. I must pass on the hot pink or the rainbow motif.
What can I say; everyone's an art critic.
======================
Funny thing, I have never been cut while handling blades. The cat did those cuts.
Quote from: Ox on July 16, 2015, 12:12:02 PM
Your mill looks good, buddy! I hate to say this, but the lube "should" be flowing on the blade before it enters the log. It may work just fine where it is, I don't know, but all the manufacturers I've seen put it just after the idle side blade guide. This way the lube is directly on the blade as it enters the cut and not getting mostly slung off on the way around to enter the cut.
Thanks.
???
That is the entry side! Look at the teeth. The motor is on the "pull" side. Reading another thread, I can put one of the nozzles on the bottom of the blade if I have build up on that side.
I'm sorry, I saw it backwards. You're right and correct and I was wrong. I have dyslexia. Or to lighten it up some, I have lysdexia. ::)
I'm starting to become more hesitant to offer any advice the farther this brain crap progresses.
Good job on your mill, you should be proud
What does DNA stand for?
National Association of Dyslexics.
Quote from: Ox on July 16, 2015, 04:05:11 PM
I'm sorry, I saw it backwards. You're right and correct and I was wrong. I have dyslexia. Or to lighten it up some, I have lysdexia. ::)
I'm starting to become more hesitant to offer any advice the farther this brain crap progresses.
Good job on your mill, you should be proud
Thanks - re-reading my reply to you sounded snarkey - Didn't mean it that way, should of put a smiley in. ;D I think my band is going backwards from most so you possibly made an assumption.
A little more progress today:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_guard_2.jpg)
Added the top black piece to the guard. Down by the engine, there is a blue wheel on a set of blue forks off a bike. I couldn't wait for my new dual pulley to arrive tomorrow, so I faked it. I put a single pulley (about 1/2 the diameter needed), shortened one belt (3/8" profile) and fired it up. Turned on the water and awkwardly engaged the belt tension. The engine was not running at top speed, nor was the blade (too small of a pulley compounded it). It cut like crazy! 8) The engine never bogged down so I kept pushing faster until I stalled the blade due to the belt slipping. Still, I was able to cut this log in less than a minute compared to 5-6 minutes with the electric. I was getting worried as the advice above is saying a 13hp would be the minimum.
We'll see how it performs in some real logs (pine, not half-rotted redwood) next week at full throttle and full blade speed. Fingers crossed...
They sell a couple mills with seven horse motors. I am running a nine horse. I would like a 13/14 horse If I got a fast enough cut for the fuel. Heck I would like 30 or 40 horse. I am cutting fine with a 9 horse though. I am only getting about 150 board foot before having to do something to the blade to keep it cutting strait. I don't know if the horse power affects this or if I am buying the cheepest blades on the market. I am working to get more but still use the mill and feel I am comming out ok just not great.
Good luck
gww
northern tool
Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company sawmill only has a 7.75 hp briggs engine on it new.
I know someone that has one and it does a fair job.
Yes, everything is relative. I've heard of a guy with a 2hp electric motor on a mill and it cut lumber. Was it fast? Probably not, but it cut. There are others with a 5hp gas engine and it works as well. Fast? No. I know that when I maxed out my mill with a huge black cherry I was wanting more power, but it cut. Just very slow travel speed to keep the rpms up. Will I ever see a tree that big again? Maybe, but probably not. For what I need, 13hp seems to be just about perfect.
Quote from: deadfall on July 16, 2015, 04:20:02 PM
What does DNA stand for?
National Association of Dyslexics.
That's funny right there! I wonder if you and I put our heads together the backwards would cancel out and we'd be able to see and do things like regular folks? :D
My nine horse has cut several 13 inch wide boards and the tree to make a cant this size was 26 inches on one end. It made good strait cuts. I have cut lots of 12 inch wide 1 and 3/4 thick. No problim and I go slow on all my cuts so not even that much differrance. Mostly I end up with smaller cants but have cut some big ones. I thought the 26 inch butt log was about 40 inches till I measured it. It was bigg. Most of my bigg logs are about 18 inches on the small end and it will cut them just fine all day long.
gww
I will be cutting lots of rafters - 5x9; planks for roof decking and floors - 2x random but shooting for 6 or 8" around 18' long; Joists 2x12 either 14' or 25' long; Posts up to 8x12, mostly 8x10. Ten Beams 8x15x30'.
Quote from: Ox on July 17, 2015, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: deadfall on July 16, 2015, 04:20:02 PM
What does DNA stand for?
National Association of Dyslexics.
That's funny right there! I wonder if you and I put our heads together the backwards would cancel out and we'd be able to see and do things like regular folks? :D
We'll just keep it stupid, simple?
I can't say how challenging it is sometimes with those matched switches on each side of the W-M control box. One is forward/reverse, and the other is up/down. Now, which was which again?
I often turn on my turn signal expecting windshield wipers. I hate it when I do that with a stater behind me.
It certainly is a challenge every single day that those without it will never understand. I get so darn frustrated sometimes I can't hardly stand it. Sometimes I can laugh at it. Mostly I grumble.
I had to weld a certain part on my mill 4 times. Every time I obviously thought it was right just to come back the next day to see it was backwards or upside down or something like that. It's never the same day to day which is what really gets me because you don't know what to expect. Thankfully I can read and write halfway decent. It didn't get me there. But seeing things in my head, like a carpentry project, forget it! And ciphering? Sometimes with simple addition it's ok, but usually not. Please don't get the idea I'm whining, just nice to share with someone who understands. :)
I'm pretty good with three-D imagination and that. I can be impossible to work with, as I might not be able so see things as others do. I have learned to be careful, but get reversed nonetheless, more than I'd like. It never pays for me to get into too much of a hurry. Don't want to wind up like Wheezy Joe in Intolerable Cruelty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT-i-YEAMe4
I drove a fork truck at work and can't tell you how many times I hit reverse when coming up to a corner. I still sometimes pull my blinker on when I want to back up in my car or truck. I haven't drove a forktruck for 6 years. Unbelievable.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: gww on July 18, 2015, 07:30:27 PM
I drove a fork truck at work and can't tell you how many times I hit reverse when coming up to a corner. I still sometimes pull my blinker on when I want to back up in my car or truck. I haven't drove a forktruck for 6 years. Unbelievable.
Cheers
ww
:D :D can't tell ya how many times I have done just the same thing! We got some new cat lifts in at work and the shuttle is on the right hand armrest along with all the other controls and I am constantly reaching under the steering wheel to change direction.
Worked on the mill all day today (12 hours). It was a two-step forward, one-step back kind of day.
I re-engineered the belt tension gismo and was able to continue cutting my test redwood log. Ran out of gas - had to make a run for fuel. Filled up the tank only to discover it had a rusted through spot about halfway up. :-[ Pulled the tank off and tossed it. Had to make a bracket to hold a 2.5 gallon plastic tank up on the frame. That ate up some time...
Back to the log making 1" boards just for testing. When I stacked all the boards back on to do some edging, I discovered my first build mistake. I precisely located my blade guide on the power side to be inline with the log stops. Only problem is when trying to cut more than a few inches deep, two of the mounting bolts hit wood ::) Ok, shimmed the boards out. I was having problems with one of the belts jumping off so I had to re-align the belt tensioner. Finished that log and put on another. Note to self - make sure the log stops are at least up to the middle of the log, otherwise knots and such will catch the blade guides. Re-aligned the log. Still not quite tight enough belt tension, I was cutting at full throttle and stalled the blade which smoked one of the belts :(
Spent the rest of the day rebuilding the blade guide to slide back further, about an inch or so more, and gave the belt tensioner more adjustment. Will be picking up new v-belt in the morning to replace the Fener link-belts. They just can't handle the HP.
Cuts well, just belt slipping - never was able to bog the motor down. Head raising mechanism is working great. Log dogs are a little bit of trouble to adjust. Might get better with use/practice.
Sounds like one of my first days.
My log dogs was hitting my battery box when I put them up all the way.
You learn to do a lot of welding and cutting things off to reweld.
ljohn (not little)
If you saw my build tread at all, you will see yours is going quite well. Just keep pegging away and one day it will be eureka, success.
I had to cut mine apart so many times that I now have to bang my angle grinder on the ground to get it to work.
Good luck
gww
I'd like to meet the man that built a mill from scratch and didn't have to change something. I'd shake his hand and proclaim I just met the most mythical creature on the planet.
gww
try replacing the carbon brushes on your grinder, it sounds as if your brushes are getting short or sticking.
alain
WM and I am sure all manufacturers constantly are looking for improvements and making changes. There are many revisions.
Quote from: Ox on July 21, 2015, 10:39:12 AM
I'd like to meet the man that built a mill from scratch and didn't have to change something. I'd shake his hand and proclaim I just met the most mythical creature on the planet.
I came close...
The only thing I change was my log dogs and I did that because I just did not like them.
I alsp change one sprocket on the carrage lift to get more speed.
Other than that no changes.
No luck on getting belts today. Not a common size (3L720). Best was 660 but I don't have a way to make up the difference (can't lower the engine any). I ordered some online but that will take a week. So, I had some spare belt links and replace the really bad/melted ones. With the belt really tight now, I am able to bog the engine if I go too fast. The redwood log is dry with some rot and lots of knots - I can cut a 8" x 10' board in less than 30 seconds - I think this is doable!
I did a test of depth cuts on the end just to get some measurements.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_thickness_test.jpg)
I dropped the blade first one revolution on the crank, then 2, 3, 4, 5 and it was supposed to be 6 but I lost track...
I cut a full board at 1 crank and that gave a 1/8" slice. I measured it and it was +/- 1/32", probably blade flutter. I've been doing 5 cranks which gives me 1-1/16" (plus a hair). Ten cranks does 2-3/16".
When making 1" boards that you want to plane one side, what thickness should you cut green? If I do 6 cranks, it should give me a 1-5/16". But I suppose I should put up a measuring scale and do it the right way ;)
It takes me probly 2 to 3 minutes to cut the same size board. I would say 30 seconds is quite good if the board is good.
gww
Made the trip up the hill to setup my mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_First_Log_1.jpg)
And first cut:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_First_Log_2.jpg)
Had some 2 year downed trees that I want to make into form boards for my footings. With the one bed, I can cut 10' 10". I need about 200' of 2x12s and some 2x8 for the stepped foundation. I started off with the closest logs and came up with this pile.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_First_Log_4.jpg)
Wow, this is addicting and fun! Getting the logs, I have to thread the needle with my SkyTrak.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Retrieving_logs.jpg)
The bruised trees will be used for other timbers in my cabin. That tree on the left with the sweep and lean - what can that wood be best be used. I know it has lots of stress but would it be better to keep it big and make posts/beams or thin so you can make it conform (bend) to where you want it?
L (not little)john
I can't help with your question but I want your sky tracker.
It looks like you are doing well and you are correct, it is addicting.
I really enjoyed your pictures.
Cheers
gww
Ljohn
Jump-cut that pistol butt off that leaning tree (last pic) and don't think you will have much trouble with the lumber above that point. At least not much, if any.
Quote from: gww on July 25, 2015, 04:50:27 PM
L (not little)john
I can't help with your question but I want your sky tracker.
It looks like you are doing well and you are correct, it is addicting.
I really enjoyed your pictures.
Cheers
gww
I got the SkyTrak for a decent price (I think) but it is OLD - 1984-86 vintage with lots of hours (I looked but forgot already). The biggest problem with it is the pavement tires it has on it - no tread. When it rains (or snows), the super fine dirt turns to grease - the slightest hill and this thing just slides down hill. I'm building the cabin myself (with help from my 11 yo son) so I needed some muscle. My son is already helping operate it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Solar_Pole_top_with_230_w.jpg)
That is a 4.5" water drill rod, 18' tall and the solar panel swivels on the top because I haven't bolted it yet.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Solar_Pole_bottom.jpg)
I welded a split piece of 6" well casing to the rod with some angle iron brackets to bolt it on. Works great, though not exactly plumb...
When I was setting this pole up for my solar (the trees will be going soon), I was giving hand signals while he maneuvered the pole (he was not able to see it due to the blocks). He did great! But was a little jittery from the adrenalin rush afterwards :D
My dads kabota is 4wheel drive but has turf tires on the back. Makes a differrence. I am in my 50s and would be shakeing with adrenalin. You look busy.
gww
I had bad times with my twin belt setup (they liked to tango and shred themselves). I pulled off the 14" twin pulley but couldn't find a machine shop to turn it into a single wide pulley. So I put it on my rotary table and used my mill to take out the center web. It's back on the mill with a single heavy duty belt ready to get to work.
Back a few posts (#4 & #23) you can see my homemade blade guides. They work great - until I turn on the blade lube. That, apparently, brought some sawdust in with the water behind the bearing seals - and toasted the bearing, twice. So I just received my Cook's Blade guides (1.25") that I ordered on Thursday.
I'm going to fabricate my own 1/2" grease-able bolts. The ones they show on their website have the Zerk fitting in the threaded end of the bolt. I'm a little concerned that will weaken the bolt in that thin section so I am planning on doing the hole from the head end of the bolt.
These guides are going to be going really fast - what type of grease do you guys use? I didn't see a recommendation on Cook's site. I could use high speed wheel hub grease (the red stuff) or I could use "boat trailer" grease that is waterproof. I'm thinking the waterproof might be a better choice.
Comments, please!
I am surprised that the bearings are not sealed. If (soapy) water can get into the bearings, then the grease can get out so why use "waterproof" grease. I would ask and use what Cooks recommends.
I think the speed and heat buildup was just too high on my bearing that I used. I really have no idea what they were rated for - I went for the size. If they were about 2" and my wheels are 21" spinning at ~700rpm, that would put them at about 7,000rpm. A typical bearing is only rated for about half that, maybe. First, it spun out some grease and then the seals (plastic?) seemed to deform, maybe melted.
The Cook's bearings are not sealed (they have a metal cover) and are recessed into the roller. They come with a "T" shaped bushing for both sides. The Zerk-fitted bolt has a groove and grease exit hole that lines up where the two bearing meet in the middle of the "wheel". I'll question Cook's but I think the stiffer, more heat resistant wheel bearing grease will do much better. Having it ooze around the bushings should do for a good dust seal, preventing it from getting near the rollers.
For what it's worth, I put Cook's guide rollers on my mill. There's no shield or seal or anything. I pump 3 strokes every time before I start up and it forces the remainder of sawdust packed grease out of the front. I wipe it away and mill. That new grease kind slings off but some stays behind to provide a barrier against sawdust infiltration. It almost acts like a renewable "grease shield". I use very little for lube (kerosene and bar oil mix) that is wick applied so I wouldn't know how my setup works with lots of water or such.
I would like to someday remember to grease them after milling for the day but I've yet to remember to do this.
I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to make a shield of sorts from some plastic from a barrel or bucket or PVC pipe. PVC can be heated and molded to any shape you want and when it cools it's just as strong as when it was pipe. Neat stuff.
I think I read that cooks wants them greased everytime the mill stops caused the heat draws the grease in like a wick. You guys would cringe at my set up. No grease. Just a shot of wd40 on all moving parts daily. No cover for the mill. It sits out in all weather. The wheels are plastic pullys and have gaps that I can see the water and sawdust in it. I squirt wd and go. If I let it sit for months with out use I believe I would have issues. The time I had the most issues with guide bearings was when my mill was running too fast. That might be the real thing you need to work on. The above doesn't mean that my bearings won't freeze immediatly when I go back out side from typing this.
Cheers
gww.
Ox,
I suppose it depends on which Cook's guides you bought, but this is the version I just got.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Cooks_Guides.jpg)
I got the 1.25" blade size guide. Front to back on the bushings is 1.5". If you take the bushing out, you see the pair of ball bearings held in place with snap rings. Cook's (I assume) ground a notch in the inner raceway on one bearing to provide a way for the grease to get inside the bearing. I made the Zerk bolt with the hole being in the shank part of the bolt rather than the threaded, thinner section. This also let me put the Zerk out front so it is easier to get to and I'm more likely to grease it every time. There were no bearing numbers visible (I didn't want to remove them) and I'd be interested in the ratings on them. Spinning them by hand, you can feel a little roughness (compared to what I have on my shop equipment), so I hope they hold up at the speeds they will be turning.
As you can see, I have car tires for my mill so I doubt that I will be using Diesel fuel - I think it would destroy the tires over time. I'll stick to Pinesol and/or Cascade dishwasher soap when I need it.
Besides replacing blades when they start to dive (getting dull), what really is "dull"? I cut a number of logs (6 or 7?) with one blade. It seems to have slowed down cutting but the blade still scrapes a thin shaving off my finger nail - so is that still sharp?
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that Cooks uses solid bandwheels (no belts) and uses Diesel for blade lube.
With those open bearings, I would imagine that soapy water would enter and wash the grease from those bearing. In that case, a "waterproof" grease would be in order.
My Cooks wheels came with no grease fittings and no bolts....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/roller-guide-2.jpg)
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 16, 2015, 03:17:48 PM
My Cooks wheels came with no grease fittings and no bolts....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/roller-guide-2.jpg)
Right, the bolts are an additional $12.95 each. Since I needed shorter bolts than what they offer, I had the bolts on hand (fine thread) and I have a lathe, I just made my own.
Yes, those are the guides I have also. I used zerk bolts from a WM LT70 the neighbor has. I don't have alot of time on them yet but they are about the same as the other ones I've seen. I need to get in the habit of greasing after milling instead of before for the wicking issue mentioned. I wanted to say that in my previous post but couldn't find the words without typing a whole bunch of sentences.
There are guys who have replaced the greasable bearings with sealed high speeds with no problems and many hours of run time. I think Pineywoods did this? When they wear out they are easily replaceable. Of course they may last so long that when the bearings wear out it's time for new guide rollers anyway.
I cut up a couple more logs last Wednesday with my new single, thicker belt and all went well. The 7hp motor was bogging down (no belt slippage) and made me want to upgrade the engine. I found an old Craftsman 18hp twin cylinder lawn tractor engine with a electric clutch on CL. Waiting for an ignition switch and starter solenoid to come in from Amazon tomorrow. Also need to pick up a small battery to run the starter. It might be a bit tricky to fit the new engine in the frame. However, it should make some serious sawdust now!
Recoil starters can be bought for your engine.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on August 24, 2015, 01:25:34 AM
I cut up a couple more logs last Wednesday with my new single, thicker belt and all went well. The 7hp motor was bogging down (no belt slippage) and made me want to upgrade the engine. I found an old Craftsman 18hp twin cylinder lawn tractor engine with a electric clutch on CL. Waiting for an ignition switch and starter solenoid to come in from Amazon tomorrow. Also need to pick up a small battery to run the starter. It might be a bit tricky to fit the new engine in the frame. However, it should make some serious sawdust now!
I know there are a few lawn tractors out there with horizontal shaft engines, but nearly all of them have vertical shafts. I have only dealt with one that was a horizontal shaft, and we totaled it when the electric clutch failed, as the replacement cost for that alone tipped the scales on whether it was worth the repair, as it had other issues as well. Got any more pictures?
If your lookin for horizontal shaft engines then you meed to look for garden tractors. Not lawn tractors...
I suppose that thing could have been called a "garden tractor," but it was really a high end rider mower. I don't think I will ever be in the market for any air cooled tractors.
I spent the morning re-aligning my main pulley behind the drive wheel. I didn't pay attention to the position when I pulled it off to modify the V-groove. It is held on with three bolts and when I put it back on it was not running true - about 60/1000" out of round. Now I'm within 15/1000. The tire was out of wack as well so I repositioned it and its pretty close now.
This motor has two pulleys, one on each end. One is on the magneto flywheel and is fixed. That one ran the transmission. The other side has the electric clutch and it ran whatever attachment was on it (typically the mower deck). I got the starter switch and solenoid in the mail by 1:00. I straightened up the wiring harness (was cut out in a few places) and hooked everything up. I powered it up with my battery charger just to check the start switch/starter and that worked. Will be picking up a battery tomorrow and continue working on it Wednesday. I didn't have any large lugs to make my battery cables - so I used some 1/4" copper tubing and made my own - works really well and a whole lot cheaper than the hardware store! Pictures will be on Wednesday - before and after the engine swap. The new engine is an 18" cube.
Did you also get the rectifier to keep the battery charged up ???
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 25, 2015, 07:23:12 AM
Did you also get the rectifier to keep the battery charged up ???
Yep! I left the headlights somewhere so I guess I won't be cutting after dark :D I double checked the clutch and it seems to be working. Up to the property today to work on the foundation forms.
OK, I got the old 7hp off yesterday:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_old_7hp.jpg)
and mounted up the new 18hp twin with an electric clutch 8):
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_new_18hp_1.jpg)
The exhaust had to be re-routed a little bit. I cut it at a slight angle, rotated it 180° (rolled) and brazed it back on. Not the best angle to see it:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_new_18hp_2.jpg)
On the other side, is a fixed pulley:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_new_18hp_4.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_new_18hp_3.jpg)
Today, I extended the wiring harness, mounted the key start, clutch switch, starter solenoid and battery. Fired it up and it runs pretty well and reasonably quiet! Engaging the clutch while idling, it barely flinched. Runs nice and smooth. When I flip off the clutch, the blade stops in a reasonable time, not like before when the loose v-belt continued to get pulled along with the engine.
Just for fun, I killed the engine with the clutch engaged. The blade kept the engine turning over a little bit and I think it took longer to stop. Not thinking much about it, I started it up and got a REALLY loud backfire :o presumably from the fuel that was pumped through the "stopped" engine. Made my ears ring, won't be doing that again! :D
Up the hill tomorrow to work on the cabin and cut a few more logs for form boards. Can't wait to see how more power works out for me.
I'll bet a dollar you're going to like that upgrade!
I am jealous. I doubt 18 horse would help me much over my nine horse unless I could find a way to stop belt slippage. I can't really bog my nine down as I am set up now. I could use an electric start though. Bet that is better then pulling the 7 horse starter rope. I don't know but would think the extra weight of the 18 horse will help stablize everything also. Love your pictures and can't wait for your next update with your thoughts of the upgrade in action. When my motor blows I may want to emulate you. Hi ox
Cheers
gww
I have a B&S vertical shaft rider mower with that identical sheet metal cover. It is in a totally worn out used mower, but I really love that quiet smooth running engine. I'm getting ready to swap it into another one with a smoking one-lunger. I don't think there is any easy way to make a vertical shaft into a horizontal shaft, or I would. The oiling scheme would probably prevent it.
I hope this works out well for you and runs forever (including that clutch).
I collect old gas engines. Back in the 50-60s almost every company that made engines had conversions to tur a vert into a hoz engine. Here is to of my collection of hundreds. Both was a Hoz engine turned into a vert engine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/clinton2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/reo-Ver.jpg)
I would love to see your shops and all your stuff in general, Kbeitz. So much cool stuff. And you seem to have a pretty good handle on most of it too.
Quote from: deadfall on August 28, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
I would love to see your shops and all your stuff in general, Kbeitz. So much cool stuff. And you seem to have a pretty good handle on most of it too.
Here is a storage spot that I dump some pictures.
I dont want to hog up space here with to many pictures.
http://user.pa.net/~kbeitz/
Quote from: gww on August 28, 2015, 11:17:12 AM
I am jealous. I doubt 18 horse would help me much over my nine horse unless I could find a way to stop belt slippage. I can't really bog my nine down as I am set up now. I could use an electric start though. Bet that is better then pulling the 7 horse starter rope. I don't know but would think the extra weight of the 18 horse will help stablize everything also. Love your pictures and can't wait for your next update with your thoughts of the upgrade in action. When my motor blows I may want to emulate you. Hi ox
Cheers
gww
The 7hp (must be a Honda with a Subaru badge) starts with one easy pull. Really nice engine. Maybe I'll make a mini-bike with it...
The 18hp will be needing a carb rebuild. Runs good with a little hunting at the top end. I need to tighten my drive belt - a little slippage - but cuts a whole lot better 8) It wouldn't turn over after cutting for a bit and letting it sit. I think some fuel was draining through the carb and there was way too much in a cylinder - hard to turn from too much compression. Then I had to air it out so it would start again. I do have a fuel cutoff valve I installed and run the carb out of fuel when done for the day. Clutch works great, engine is reasonably quiet - electric start is soooo nice!
I drug a 16-½ foot log up on to the mill (~11" small end).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_16footer.jpg)
Been down 2 years and still very wet inside. Nice lumber (for form boards) with a little dry rot on one side. Got three 2x8 full length and one 10'. A little sweep at the butt and very hard there. Made a wheelbarrow load of foundation stakes from the side wood. Not sure what happened to the lumber pics...
Keibtz,
Are all those pictures of stuff you have? :o Nice collection. Do you buy to refurbish and sell to support your habit or are you building a museum? :D
L
Anytime I see a dancing smily, I figure things went well. Thanks for the indepth update and also the pictures. My nine very seldom starts on the first pull and always starts by the third pull. Not really hard but. Electric start agrrrrrr! Dad has a log splitter that you can pull and pull and pull on and it won't start if you leave the gas on. Shut the petcock when you kill the engine and it will start first time. Been that way since brand new.
Sounds great.
gww
Can't trust float valves on gravity feeds.
Worse than compression lock is fuel getting past the rings and thinning the oil.
Quote from: deadfall on August 29, 2015, 03:46:55 PM
Can't trust float valves on gravity feeds.
Worse than compression lock is fuel getting past the rings and thinning the oil.
Yep, don't want it thinning the oil. Never had problems before with float valves. Either there is a speck of dirt or the seat is hard/worn. I expect the latter - this engine has seen a bit of use and probably never any work done on the carb. Forgot to write down the engine numbers. Will do that next time I'm up the hill and will likely pull the carb to bring it home to redo.
I find I need two things when dealing with this issue: a manual shutoff valve, and the memory to use it.
BTW, ljohn, I can't tell you how much I love your part of the world, ever since I fished in Folsom Res. or swam in the Yuba River when I was ten years old. I do hope you get sufficient precip going there soon. I love every inch of the High Sierra. It is one of the places in this world I think of as my church.
Update:
Yesterday (Wednesday), I needed 10 feet of 2x8 to finish my form boards. I cut this tree down a week or two ago and never sawed the butt log until today. Note how high I left the stump. Bad angle on the picture but there was a bit of sweep:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Nail_4_20150930.jpg)
So I cut from the small end and about 3 inches from the end of the cut I stall out the blade. I lifted the slab off and found this: :(
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Nail_1_20150930.jpg)
Looks like either two nails (at angles) or a fence stable, but it is pretty thick diameter.
If you go back to the first pic, you can see a little stain that I missed. Here is the end I then trimmed off looking at both sides you can see stain:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Nail_3_20150930.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Nail_2_20150930.jpg)
Swapped blades and cut out some really nice 2x8s.
To finish off the day, I loaded up this big cedar butt log, about 24":
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Cedar_3_20150930.jpg)
I started slicing off some 1x for my brother's sauna until I got to some good width and cut a 3" slab for my niece. Only problem was I got about 3/4 of the way through and the nasty screech of metal on metal - DanG - and the blade dove. I didn't want to waste the slab so I cut back from the other end with my chainsaw and wedge-split it off.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Cedar_4_20150930.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Cedar_5_20150930.jpg)
I will need to cut one more slab, finish one edge on each and butt them up so they will have enough width for a dining table.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Cedar_6_nail_20150930.jpg)
The sliver you see is about the size of a toothpick - very thin - I managed to slice the nail right though its pith! >:( On the back side of the slab:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/First_Cedar_7_nail_20150930.jpg)
Where the diagonal water line meets the metal is the head of a second nail that I just grazed. Can't quite count the rings but looks like about 30-40 years ago these two nails were stuck in here :( My metal detector (not the saw blade) could just barely pick up these thin nails down 3" into the slab.
Two wasted blades... At least I had a LOT of hours on the first one. I was contemplating putting a new blade on, too!
Now I just need to cut a backstop and my apprenticeship will be complete ;)
Deadfall:
BTW, it started raining on me yesterday while I was working in the afternoon. I just kept on working in the rain - felt good. Today is thunderstorms both on the hill and down here by Folsom Lake. Nice to finally hear some rain!
Darn the bad luck! But you kept the creed of never give up. Well done!
Just a fun picture to compare with the "dry" picture in replies #82 and #88:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Cabin_20160209_03.JPG)
This was taken on February 9, 2016
New to this site hope im not doing something wrong,Would like impho on guides.Have seen Leggmans and cooks ,would like size and what bearing is used /see some must be sealed some grease fitting.will they last made from mild steal.Thanks.
I built my mill... I did not make my guides. It's just not worth the time it would take to make good guides.
This is what i went with.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Roller_Guide.jpg)
brewdog
You might go to leggmans profile and click on his post and it might take you to his build thread. I believe I ask and he answered my question which is the same as yours somewhere in the middle of his build thread. It is there somewhere after the picture of his millshowing his guides. I don't remember off hand what the bearing size is but believe the roller was made from 1 and 1/2 inch round stock. I don't know what lasting a long time is with soft steel. Magic man on this site probly cuts as many boards as I have in two days. I can only say they are still working really well for me. I believe the best answer is in replie #8 of this thread.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,83025.0.html
Good luck
gww
Thanks for the impho..
Hi could you show your jacks in a bit more detail did you buy them or make them because I'm in the middle of making mine now and yours looks simple
Thanks
Quote from: Jay Sybrandy on December 29, 2016, 02:59:17 PM
Hi could you show your jacks in a bit more detail did you buy them or make them because I'm in the middle of making mine now and yours looks simple
Thanks
I got 12 of these for free from a friend - I just had to remove them. They were on some weird scrap Army scaffolding. The mount plates are welded on mid-body - would have rather had them at the top. They are 2,000lb rating (very low gearing). They are basically trailer jacks with a pad foot instead of a wheel. I had to mount them inboard so they wouldn't interfere with my head.
If you look on the right side of the cross member, you can see my futile attempt to make a jack with some all-thread and square tube.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/150107_005.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1420700042)
Time for some updates. I started this tread a little over 2 years ago but the actual build is closer to 3 years now. The 18hp B&S engine is running good (now that I did a carb rebuild/clean out last week).
The single 5L720 belt was working pretty good with the funky shim belt tightening setup but that was not easily adjustable. I took an idler pulley from a timing belt and made a lever arm with a spring from a trampoline and a turnbuckle. That is working pretty good now. I'd like a 6L belt but not sure if such a thing exists - don't see them on Amazon or eBay.
I did have a few mishaps both over the winter and when hauling. The winter caused all 4 chains to break (the master links' pins broke). When I took it home to rebuild the carb, I hit a pothole and that broke the final chain on the lift mechinisam allowing the head to free-fall to the trailer deck. That messed up the guide wheel bracket (and alignment) which cause cutting issues until I identified it.
Twice I backed up in a cut and popped a blade off at full speed and crimped it :( Hoping not to do that again. I cut around 700 bd-ft of form boards with the old setup (7hp) and about 3,000 bd-ft on the new setup. I only have another 30,000 bd-ft to go :-\
Pictures of some of the improvements to follow if I make it up the hill tomorrow or later this week.
Oh well, forgot about getting some pictures but did make some improvements:
I added a log scale.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171103_c.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1509742183)
I used super magnets to hold it and allow adjustments. I push the head on this bar so it was sometimes moving. So I added a cam clamp.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171103_d.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1509742203)
When I made my mill, I made these (though both had a longer section of 2" x ¼" tube).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_16footer.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1440865453)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171213_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513201217)
But they are a bit difficult to use. So when I found this thread, https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41852.msg605141.html#msg605141 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41852.msg605141.html#msg605141), I knew what I wanted to do! So here is the replacement:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171213_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513201621)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171213_c.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513201640)
There is about 1" of throw. If I decide I need more, I can lower the cam closer to the spike pivot. The bolt are 5/16" Grade 8. Note the bright orange so it is easier to aim the blade... ;)
As of yet, I have never popped a blade off when backing up in a cut. I have backed up a few times.
I can't believe that all the chain broke. I was very surprized by this report.
30,000 board foot to go. You should be in good shape to build when you get that done.
Thanks for the update.
gww
Back on reply #90, there is a picture (from March 2016) of my mill. Here it was in February of 2017:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20170211_i_Sawmill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486944764)
And again the end of March 2017 after about 18" melted. Notice the head angle...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20170428_d.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1493440104)
Went up today to try and get some milling done before the snow dumps again tonight. The last snow was from Thanksgiving weekend - just a couple inches. The forecast was for rain. Here is what was left today - ground pretty well frozen but was able to use the SkyTrak
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171219_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513744549)
I put this big guy on to test the log clamp
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171219_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513744502)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171219_c.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513744553)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20171219_d.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513744594)
Plenty of travel (1") and tons of pressure! The only issue I had is a 2x2 tube is not exactly 2x2. My tubes are ever so slightly rectangular. Of my 3 log bunks that will accept the clamps, only one would fit correctly. The other two would only take the clamp 90° off to the side. I have a little grinding to do on the posts.
I've been pondering what to use to jack up logs to center the pith. I have a few scissor jacks that could fit but it might be difficult to crank them as the jack has to rise between the bars on my log bunks. The crank mechanism would be blocked by the bunk end posts. I was out today hitting thrift stores and such and found this at a ReStore (Habitat for Humanity). Maybe Kbeitz knows what it from. I'm thinking an early 1900's car or truck?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180201_jack_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1517522473)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180201_jack_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1517522464)
BTW, the posting by clicking to insert link is working again (for me)! :)
The "lug wrench" has a screw driver like end on it (to pop a hub cap?) and a hex nut hole in the other end lug nuts/bolts. It doesn't fit in the jack correctly so I'm assuming there was a different handle for it. I had to give it a shot of Blue Creeper to get the ratchet pawl to work properly and lubed the threads as well. I like the flip top extension - might come in handy when I try it out on my mill (whenever the snow melts...) :-\ I'll probably make a slight U shaped bracket to fit on top to cradle a log so it won't want to roll off.
Not bad for $5.00! 8)
I have a jack collection with a few like that but I have no idea
what car it came from. E-bay is saying Model A A2
Can you provide more info and photos of your lift system. Seems pretty unique, how has it been working and how fast can you lift the head up and down.
Here is a couple pictures when I first made it. Things are a bit rusty now! It is made from those big rolling file cabinets. I added more stages of gear reduction to make it really easy to lift. About 10 turns to lift an inch. The center shaft turns the two outside shafts which haul the head up on four chains. It used to free fall so going down was easy. Now I have to give the handle a big spin and it will go down a couple inches.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Lift_gearing_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1436587345)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_Lift_gearing_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1436587345)
@Kbeitz (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=29553) ,
I'm going to make the jump to power! I will add a motor to my head lift. It is geared way down - about 10 rev/inch. I bought a pair of Jazzy motors and with their low speed and my low gearing, I'm thinking just a on/off/jog/reverse setup like you did on your router attachment. The other motor I was planning on adding drive power and I found this controller
Waterproof 12V 24V 48V 20A DC Motor Adjustable Speed Controller Regulator Switch
and was wondering what you think. I like the waterproof! Hard to say without seeing the guts.
I found where you recommended this one Q1 Speed Motor Pwm 60a Red+black Hho Rc Control 48v 24v 12v 15khz 10-50v 3000w
and it looks like it is pretty ruggedly built (lots of power transistors).
Then there are these out there
DC 10-55V 12V 24V 36V 60A PWM DC Motor Speed Controller CW CCW Reversible Switch
with a reverse switch already set up and a digital display of the speed (0-100%).
I am adept at doing electrical/electronics so no issue with putting in a reverse switch on the motor leads and limit switches.
Great... and good luck... My choice would be the high amp one. It will last much longer...
Made this change back in April or so. Took the tri-handle off and installed a wheel chair motor (24v) that runs off the engine battery (12v).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180904_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1536070474)
Runs a little slow when you have to go far (20-30") but good for fine adjustments. It was acting strange (would go real slow) so I installed some test points for my VOM.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180904_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1536070499)
Turns out the battery wasn't fully charged. I used a battery charger and now it seems to be doing much better. Might have to resort to an "external" alternator that has more output then the little magneto one on the engine.
The switches on the right are for drive motor(s) but until I get more charging output, that is on hold.
I built my mill using Toyota Tercel rear wheel hubs. The pulley I had required me to pull the drive hub apart so I could bolt it up on the back side of the hub flange. In doing so, I messed up the bearings. They have been giving me problems the last month or so. When I took off the blade to change it, I could see they were way gone now - about a half inch of wobble! The inner bearing races were heavily pitted and the seal looked shot. Probably a lot to have a machine shop repair.
Over Labor Day weekend, Pic-n-pull had half-off so I found a "new" hub for $10 and decided NOT to do the same thing. Using the old hub, I located the pulley on the rim and drilled though to bolt directly to the rim of the tire. Then I cut out the center of the pulley and mounted it like this:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180901_hub.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1536070379)
I was going to take it up the hill today to test it out but a small forest fire has closed my area. Hopefully they will get it under control/out today if it didn't spread too far last night.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/Photo1201.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1444152533)
You may consider adding one of these.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/Photo1202.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1444152541)
Since it draws virtually nothing mine is wired direct. 12.6v before I cranked up but I had used the hydraulics a bit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0182.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1456255861)
14.6v with the engine running. I always know what my battery and alternator are doing. :)
Nice. I'll have to add that to my Amazon list for the next shipment.
I guess I add a little once a year to this thread. So, once again, the drive bearing went out. I got TWO replacement spindles this time from Pic-n-Pull so I have one "on the shelf" ready to go. That happened about back a couple weeks.
I was having trouble with my "sideways" clamp. The point wasn't quite long enough so I welded on a little tab. So here is my sideways clamp for when I get down to something less than 7" that needs a clamp:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Side_Clamp.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1568767500)
The cam is setup reversed. This is the locked position, with the handle pointing to the left is released.
I also "improved" one of my scales:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Improved_Scale.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1568767498)
I did two things. I punched a little dot half way between each scale mark (dark blue). Then I also punched which scale under every ½ mark and full mark (the faint, uncolored numbers). That way I can make sure I'm on the right scale. At the bottom you can see a little carriage bolt head. That is on a toggle clamp that holds the scale from sliding around. Say I want to cut a 6x something, I center the blade on the pith, release the toggle and slide the scale up or down until a dot on the 6-scale is under the height marker (a red wire not shown). I lock the toggle and then raise the head to the full 6-scale (numbered) mark and make my cut. Drop down to the next lower 6-scale full mark and cut again. Now I don't have to mess with the tape measure!
Posted this elsewhere but wanted to keep my sawmill thread up to date.
To center the pith, I would lay my 4' level across the rails and measure up with an aluminum rule (like a yardstick). So I came up with a single tool to do the job and not so fragile as my level.
I just made this up from a 8' piece of aluminum 1/8" x 1" stock I had laying around. I cut it into two 4' sections. I had the last 2 feet of a 12' stick on measure (for radial arm saw fence ). I stuck it starting a few inches above my log bunks. It doesn't matter what the numbers are, they are just a reference to the pith at each end of the log. The wing nut allows for sliding the vertical to match where the log is on the bunks and it can be slid off to store as a single 4' long stick.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20191011_a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1570894470)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20191011_b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1570894470)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20191011_c.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1570894476)
Posted this as part of my cabin update but wanted to keep this thread up to date.
I've been wanting to add power drive to my mill, especially for pulling the head back. I installed another wheelchair motor when I had the head at home over the winter. So back up to the mill bed, I needed to install some cable and try out my new power drive. A little adjustment and it works great. Powerful enough to drag me!
I had already installed the two switches on the right - run/stop and a forward/reverse - when I built this box for the raise/lower motor. I purchased the controller off of eBay. I didn't use their rocker switch but mounted the rheostat for the speed control (also is the power switch for the unit). The 3-digit led display is for the % of power supplied. I still need to mount it somehow. There are no ears to mount it, might just use some double stick foam tape. The volt meter below I just got last year and it has failed already (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/sad.gif)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20200528d.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590716230)
The vinyl coated cable comes from the back end of the mill, through the UHMW bushing mounted in a eye-bolt, goes around the black pulley and does a figure 8 around the silver drive pulley, back around the black pulley and through an unseen UHMW bushing to the front end of the mill where a turnbuckle is used to tension it all up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20200528c.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590716227)
I'm only running 12v so "full speed" is not too fast - like a quick walk. Works great for returning the head. Can't wait to get some logs to try it out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20200528b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590716223)
Update 6/18/2020:
The power drive was working great - for about an hour and is dead in the water. I'll be heading back up this week and will do a little diagnostic work to see what's going on with it. Might have to buy a new one :(
power supply inadequate?
I check and it has power but then I got sidetracked and cut up a bunch of logs. I should have pulled it and brought it home to mess with it but it slipped my mind. I'll be going back up next week to work on the rest of the logs. I replaced my home-turned wheels with some bigger ones from a hydraulic lift gate mechanism. Nice round profile for ½" cable, about 6" diameter and roller bearings. The head rolls real easy now - about 1 pound of force to move it.
I had missed this thread before, but back to those jacks. I have several just like that. They belonged to my Dad. He told me that were Model T jacks.
Even though I have a fairly good sized collection of hydraulic jacks, I still end up using those once in a while. I used one just a few weeks ago to get the sag out of a very old door.
Time for an update - not just to this thread, but to my mill. Over the last few years, I've had a number of breakdowns and field repairs. Now that I'm down the hill for the winter, it's time for Version 2.0!
Things I'm keeping:
1) Track. Works great and has remained as straight as when it was built (one section has a weld-induced sag of about 1/8" in the middle of 16')
2) Bunks. Work good but need a couple more - stole idea from someone on the Forum.
3) Log dogs. Version 2.0 of those are great - stole idea from someone else on the Forum.
4) Electric head lift. Wheelchair motor (24v) running on 12v is adequate.
Things I'm changing:
1) Power travel. Worked ok when first install but controller died. Doesn't fit my cutting style. Might make a hand crank system with a neutral for returning. I use the pressure I need to push as a guide to my blade sharpness.
2) Drive wheels. The doughnut spare tires work ok but I bought some steel pulley wheels with 1.5" hubs to be more conventional.
3) Band guides. I have Cooks guides but need to rework the alignment system. Also, the sliding width adjustment I will improve and add an actuator to electrically move them in and out.
4) Drive ratio. Currently I'm going from ~6" motor pulley to a 15" attached to the 21" tires. I'm reducing it to a 12" attached to the new 18.75" band wheels. That should increase my band speed a little. Not sure what my engine top end rpm is but it sounds slow-ish. 18hp B&S twin cylinder.
5) Belt tensioning. I have an automotive belt tensioner that I will use to replace my kludgey one.
6) Lube system - try to install an electric valve tied to the electric clutch.
7) Switch from car hubs to pillow blocks. Incorporate better blade tension and tracking systems.
8 ) Upgrade lift to include garage door torsion springs to help balance the weight.
9) Width of cut - increasing about 6". I get ~3" from reducing the band wheels diameter and another ~3" by reworking the guides.
I opted to go with a band wheel kit off of eBay that had a pair of wheels, hub adapters for 1.5" and v-belts. Surplus Center maxed out at 1-7/16. I wanted to go as big as possible on the axles. So now I need to purchase some pillow block bearings and some axle material.
Looking for recommendations. I see some bearings on Surplus Center and a bunch on eBay. I don't see speed ratings, let alone country of origin! For the axles is it 1018 steel that I need? Not cold rolled? The band wheels will be as close to the bearings as possible with the drive pulley (12") mounted between bearings.
New to this forum. I am starting to build a mobile band saw mill. John, you may want to source some 1030 for axle stock. 1018 is a little soft in my opinion and will bend more easily than the 30 point steel.
Plans and acquired materials: I am using a Honda 20hp v-twin electric start for power, 21" bandsaw wheels and a 22' long 7" C-channel frame. I hope to use a few dc motors, 600-800w , to power the carriage lift and tracking. I am hoping that someone out there has done similarly and has advise/ recommendations. I will use speed controllers for both motors.
Cheers, Rob
Rob,
Welcome to the Forum. Thanks for the steel info - I'm going to visit a supplier's drop shelves today or tomorrow.
Do you already have the C channel? If it is what you have, go with it. However, in my experience, it is not as stiff as box steel - it can twist - though 7" is pretty stout and very heavy! I made mine from 2x4x¼. If I were to do it again, I'd only go with 3/16" wall.
Update 3/29/2021:
Making good progress. Built the new head frame, mounted the pillow blocks, axles, band wheels and drive pulley. Temporally placed engine so I could design the engine plate. Built that and has first coat of paint. Will be back on it later this week.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210329.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617069871)
I have a hydraulic pump (like a porta-power) and need to get a puck cylinder (from HF?) for the blade tension. On order are 4 sticks of 1/2" ACME rod and nuts. Decided to just do it right compared to my old chain lift. I really want to do an electric slide blade guide but can't decide how to do it. I'd like to see what others have for electric blade guides. They need to move easily yet be very sturdy - not move forward or back. I will have a rail above to maintain the proper height. Maybe I need two rails above with an angled brace from the back one to the roller?
If you dig through wood mizers videos you can see how they did there and it's the best I've seen. Haven't seen one in person but it's really simple and looks well engineered.
Update 5/14/21:
Finished up my mill rebuild (well, almost) and took it up to the property today. I took a bunch of picture and will try and document what all I did. Here is an overall shot. The blade guard is some 5/8" ply for the covers and the green plastic is cut from one of those playground commercial tunnel slides. I added a piece of 1" cedar across the top and then screwed the plastic into the cedar and the edge of the plywood.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_e.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042569)
I added the fancy chrome 1" square tube (from a store clothing fixture) and it is held in place on the saw head with toggle clamps. On the bottom of the square tube I put in a couple round head screws that match up with some holes on the saw head. That keeps it from moving around. It is very sturdy - time will tell if it holds up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_g.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042577)
The moveable guide will go all the way into the cover. It is out just a little here.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_f.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042571)
The fixed guide (drive side) is mounted ridged on a 1/4" x 1.5"x1.5" angle bracket. It is held in place with the same bolts holding the pillow blocks. The 1/4" square tube is 2.5"x2.5" that I threaded for 3/8" bolts (2 each side, 8 bolts per roller) to adjust the rollers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_i.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042585)
On the adjustable side, I had some 1.25" square tube and mounted it in V-rollers. They are mounted on arms with 1/4" adjusting screws to fine tune how tight they are.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_h.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042589)
The cable is for moving the roller in and out via this set of pulleys on a screw drive linear motor.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042598)
I took out the two switches for the power drive that failed last year and put in a momentary dpdt switch (upper right). Also mounted a hood latch pull for the choke at the bottom. The battery voltage display is still not working. Might get a new one but for now, it fills the big hole.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_k.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042594)
The saw head is now just a single frame (not a big box like before). I mounted the engine towards the middle and put the gas tank outside the frame so I can go as high as possible with the engine there. I could modify the upper frame piece if I want to get another 10 to 12".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_m.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042606)
I also moved the battery towards the center along with the fuse panel (only two circuits), battery cut off switch and a better throttle lever.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_l.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042609)
Shown here is an automotive belt tensioner. Up top is a screw that is used to adjust the tension. Also, you can see the 1/2" ACME screws I'm using now. I made some telescopic PVC to cover them up. I need to attach them to the frame.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_n.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042615)
These 1/2" PVC conduit just ride up and down with the frame. I figure that should be enough (24") since there isn't a lot of dust up top.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_p.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042627)
I didn't get a picture of it but the old drive motor is mounted up top with sprockets on top of all the ACME rods. I have 1/2" flange mount pillow blocks top and bottom along with 1/2" collars to help support the weight of the head. There are quite a few set screws holding it all up. All the electrical is in liquid tight conduit to keep it protected.
That is looking really good. are those angled bars supporting the engine? nm looks like they are supporting the adjustable guide. have any better pictures of that setup?
I'll get more pictures when I go back up next week of the engine mount, the pillow block mounts, tracking adjustment and blade tension setups.
Look at the last picture above and the back rail. The cross rails are from pallet shelving and has a step on the inside. I made a secondary frame out of some 1x1.5 tube that fits in between the front and back rails with a 1/4" engine plate welded to the top hanging over the back rail for the engine. The entire frame/engine mount can slide and clamps from underneath. No hole in the cross frame. Same sort of thing going on for the pillow block mounts. The gray rectangular pieces with all the lightening holes are brackets from Dish Network setups. They make nice areas to mount stuff and they are powder coated so I didn't repaint them.
More pictures of the mods:
The light tan is the original upright. I added the silver 2x4 tube with the angled top on both sides to increase the "throat" width by 8" and increase the height by 3".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485610)
This is the tension side of the head. The big nut and bolt is just a keeper to keep the tension. The little space behind the bolt is where a little hydraulic puck drops in that I pump up to set the tension and then hand tighten the bolt and remove the puck. What the bolt is up against if held in place with four bolts clamping it to the pallet rack rail. You can see two of them up front and two more way in the back.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485609)
From underneath, you can see two bolts clamping pillow blocks. The sub-frame has short sections of 2.5x2.5x¼" tube, two on the right on one on the left, that a C-shaped frame made from 2x2x¼" can slide in. That frame has the pillow blocks supporting the idle wheel.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_c.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485617)
This is looking at the drive side. You can see two of the four vertical clamping bolts. Originally, I was going to mount a bracket to push the near pillow block to adjust tracking. I had added the two horizontal all-thread you see on the left side to supplement the clamping bolts to keep the assembly from slipping. I did the same on the idle side. As it turns out, I loosen the four clamp bolts just a bit and use the all-thread to adjust the tracking - works great!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_f.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485625)
Here is a better view of the clamping set up, the all-thread for tracking adjustments and the shape of the pallet rack bars. I didn't want to weld to the bars since the metal is a little thin. I bolted the 3/16" end plates that fit snugly in the angled ends. Very rigid. I used the all-thread to hold the pillow block assembles in place as I worked out where they should be in relation to the engine and the uprights. Then I cut the all-thread to length.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_g.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485630)
The engine plate is ¼" and welded to the 1x1.5 tube sub-frame that is clamped to the pallet rails. You can only see one of the angle iron clamp pieces that is also supporting the alternator. The small uni-strut you see behind the alternator are the clamp bars for that box thing with all the lightening holes. There are two of those - they were under-eave mounts for Dish Network dishes. Very stout but light with a powder coat finish.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_e.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485626)
Back on the idle side, looking towards the drive side. This is the outer rollers. All four rollers are mounted on the same ¼" plate. The top and bottom blocks are directly mounted to the plate and have a ¼" screw threaded through to adjust the v-roller. It contacts the lever at the near end. It pivots on the far end and the v-roller is attached in the middle - so very fine adjustments can be done. The ½" bar is threaded for the 3/8" v-roller bolt and the pivot bolt. Once adjusted, both are tightened down. All four adjustable, I can angle the bar up or down so it tracks exactly with the blade as you extend the rollers toward the drive side.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_d.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485618)
Poor picture but the wheelchair motor attach at the far side has a large sprocket on its shaft (~2") and smaller sprockets (~1") are attached to the tops of all four ACME threaded rods. My old set up I would have to drop the head below my target and creep up to take out any backlash. I think I have eliminated that with these rods.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_h.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485636)
The campground had a number of trees come down over the winter. The maintenance guy told me I could have whatever I want. Most is firs that I don't want but there was this cedar - 17' x 16/18.5. Nice and straight.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485643)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_k.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485651)
Update 6/2/2021:
Planned on milling up 3 cedar and 1 Ponderosa logs over the holiday weekend on the new head. Had a few issues that all but one were resolved.
Mill ran great but the lift seemed a little slow. Test cutting the worst of the logs (most knots) into 2x4s went great. I was pushing to lug the engine while going through knots and it didn't dive or rise one bit. Very happy with that. After a few passes, the drive belt popped off. Got it back on for another cut then popped off. Looking at the idle/tension wheel, the belt kept wanting to walk off the front. I had welded the mount (note to self, ALWAYS make it adjustable) in such a way that I could not move the wheel forward away from the engine (the way the belt was tracking off).
So attempted to shim it at different angles but still would not stay on. I did have long holes in the engine mount plate so decided to pull the wheel off and just slide the engine to tension the belt. That worked great. Except for one small problem. In my haste to get cutting again, left the tension wheel sitting on the frame in front of the engine (out of sight) and started cutting. It vibrated off and dropped onto the blade with a bang. The blade dug into the wheel and left marks all the way around while the wheel took out about 9 teeth off the blade. Straightened out a couple of teeth and continued to cut with this blade for a while.
Finished up the second log making 1x4s. Some of them crooked a bit but should be able to straighten them when we put up the fence. Started in on the final cedar log Sunday morning and the lift was running really slow. Then the engine wouldn't start (starter wouldn't turn over the engine). So we jumped it and keep the engine running at high idle to charge the battery. Still the lift was slow - hmm, must not be charging. Look at the alternator and see that I never wired it in at the end of the rebuild - Dooh! ::) Made up a jumper and all is good now.
Finishing up the log, the 1x4 thickness was not being consistent using the gauge. As I was dropping to make the very last cut, the head was hitting the front of the vertical frame. The front ACME screws had come out of sync with the rear screws, so it seemed. Turns out, the little pops I would hear every now and then was the set screws on the front, right sprocket slipping. Adjusted that up and then noticed that the left front ACME nut was stripped out. Got the head to the level we needed, made the last cut and shut down for the day. I will be going up tomorrow to retrieve the head and make some repairs. Thinking of doubling up the nuts. Perhaps I didn't have all the nuts sharing the load equally. The left rear seems solid and it is holding most of the weight. The other thing I could do is add a counter balance to that side but don't really want to get into that.
I can't believe you stripped a nut. are they brass? steel? I have 2 threaded rods and nuts mine is 1" 5 pitch. If you add more nuts you will have more friction, that will not help your raise and lower speeds.
what size sprockets do you have on the threaded rod? I have 12 tooth and have found in order to be confident they are not going to jump you need 180 degree wrap with the chain. 90 degrees is not enough to keep it from jumping.
I would bet once you get all 4 timed and get the chain jumping issue taken care of you will not need anymore nuts. I do wonder if the one that stripped was side loaded from being out of time. That is the tricky part with that many items is timing.
keep chipping away at it, youll get the bugs shook out. smiley_thumbsup
Would love to see a video of the blade guide arm in action. Build looks great!
I'm using 1/2" 10 pitch. The nut are steel. I'll be tearing into it tomorrow morning. I'll see what's what then. I have 8 new nuts on hand. Maybe I should have gone with the 1". :-\
The blade guide movement is not that impressive. With the cables, it kind of moves in spurts. But it does hold the guide in place and works.
As I was raising the head to work on the lift, I could hear/see a chain jump every once in a while. I have small sprockets all the way around (12 tooth?). On the far side from the motor, 90° bends. On the motor end, more like 135° bends because of the drive motor placement. I think I will move the tension sprocket from the long side to the far end to give me better wrap around those sprockets. I think I will also need some UHMW guides/supports for the chain along the long sides just before the sprockets and mid span to keep the chain from sagging.
Yep, the steel 1/2" ACME threaded nut was completely stripped out. After cleaning up the end of the rod thread, I ran up a new nut until I got to the wear area. I think the thread got a little mushroomed during the striping of the nut threads so the new nut won't go on that area anymore. So, time for a redo.
I got my stuff from Surplus Center. They state the rod is 1010/1018 rolled threads. Is that good enough? Is there somewhere else I should look for something better?
Price and weight wise, I'm looking at either 3/4" or 7/8". Well, I guess its 3/4". They don't have nuts for 7/8". The 1/2" was 10 pitch, these others are 6 pitch. Jumping up to 1.25" 5 pitch or 1.5" 4 pitch, the price and weight go way up and I don't see where I need that much size. The head is probably 200 pounds - 150 at the engine end, 50 at the other end.
OK, I decided to spend the money - pay once, cry once, right?
I would need to replace the 1/2" rod I got from Surplus Center to get this working again but for how long? SC couldn't give me what the rods were made out of and based on how easy they are to file, must be just plain carbon steel.
So I went to McMaster Carr. They have various grades of steel and I went with the alloy steel (153,000 tensile strength) over the carbon (54,000) or stainless steel options and got the long bronze "nuts" over the conventional looking short nuts. So, went from the SC price on 1/2" rod on the original order o $134 to 3/4" rods/bronze nut of $499! :o On MC site, they don't give you shipping options or estimates. Just that tax and shipping will be added. To my surprise, the shipping was only $37 (pretty cheap for 6' goods, IMO) and will be delivered TOMORROW! That kind of shipping from SC was $150-200. Anyhow, I'll work on my blade cooling/water system today and maybe the laser line for the cut guide.
hopefully the 3/4 will be good. I don't see why not. still surprised the 1/2" stripped. There is a good deal of load on those threads.
I decided to tackle the laser line first. Was an interesting journey. Well, @burlybee (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=51450) did an install back in August of 2020 Mod eliminates parallax error (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=111749.msg1750519#msg1750519) and I wanted to do the same. Bought all the parts and they just sat there.
So today was the day. Just looking back at his thread, I forgot about building a good mount that acts as a heat sink. Maybe I'll get to that. Anyhow, here's how it went: I have a little power supply from a printer that puts out 22vdc unloaded and 17vdc in use. I hooked up the regulator and laser to make sure it worked - yes! I added some 16g wire to the super thin wires coming out of the laser and added layers of heat shrink tubing to reinforce those wires. The last tubing fit over the end of the laser to provide strain relief.
I contemplated wiring into my lift motor switch but decided I wanted to be able to turn on the laser whenever. So I found a nice momentary switch in my stockpile. Added spade connectors were necessary and soldered/heat shrink the rest of the connections, including on the voltage regulator. Hooked it all into the mill and turned on the power (battery isolation switch) and the laser lit right up... ??? Press the button and it turns off. Dooh, that button switch was a NC - didn't even check.
Back into the shop I have a couple old red Radio Shack buttons. You know the ones - Red is NO, Black is NC. Swapped in one of those red ones, back out to the mill and hooked it all up. Same think - push to turn off. Back down to the shop and do a continuity check. Sure enough, NC. Check the other one - NO - so swap the switch again. I vaguely recall having an oddball red switch. Factory reject, I guess.
OK, back to the mill and laser is working great. I used a 3/8" conduit strap to mount the laser to the side of the control box, directly in front of my scale. On my laser, you screw the lens in/out to get a crisp line. But, the line will only be crisp in one orientation - go 90° off and it is a thick blur. OK, so figure out which way the laser needs to be snugged up and tighten it in place. When I test again - super dim line. What? Jiggle the wires, no change. Try and adjust the focus and it flickers bright/dim. What?
Messing around for a while, I discover that the "lens" portion will touch the mill frame when left alone and the laser goes dim. Pull it away and it is bright. So I shim it out away from the frame (to be finally fixed when I make a good mount/heat sink). The other thing I notice is the "lens" is rather loose/floppy and will surely fall off from vibration when running the mill. So I ran a piece of electrical tape around it to the body of the laser.
I'm not too worried about the laser getting hot as it will only be used momentarily to check the scale. It is pretty bright, and as Burlybee mentions, very narrow spread so somewhat safe for bystanders. But they shouldn't be standing in front of the mill anyhow.
Update 6/17/2021:
Put the mill back on the track. I put the butt end of one of the cedars I milled the other week on the bed. Went to remove the transport chains and couldn't find my sawmill keys... Then a moment of dread - I think I left them in the door lock and lost them on the trip up there. Bummer. I happen to have two extra ignition keys but not a lock box key. Thought about prying it open but didn't really want to bend it all up. So I thought I'd do a TV lock pick trick. I stuck a small screwdriver in the lock to twist it and only had a mini zip tie that could fit in the lock. Poked that in a few times and the lock turned. So secure!
There was a screw protruding that I removed and ran my metal detector (Garrett) all over with no other hits. The Garrett is so sensitive, it will pick up my bed through a 20" log. I slabbed of two 4"+/- chunks and flipped it. Took off a waste slab and went to cut the remaining into a 3" and 4" when I hit a screw. I saw it and couldn't stop in time. Should have looked over the log or run the Garrett over it again. Oh well. I powered through the rest of the cut and didn't get any diving with a now really dull blade. Pretty happy with how it is performing.
These are both sides of 4 slabs. The 2nd and 3rd pics are book matched from near the center of the tree. You can make out a 90° bend in the little sapling (probably from snow) that didn't spring back and the tree continued to grow and right itself. I'm going to try and sell them on CraigsList. If they don't, I'll make some coffee tables or mantles out of them.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_1b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996710)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_1a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996710)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_2a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996769)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_2b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996774)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_3b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996830)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_3a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996831)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_4b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996870)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210617_Slab_4a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623996886)
It's been quite the adventure reading along here! I went, at the beginning of the thread, from "oh this is another homemade mill that I think I'm capable of building" to "welp, doing it right makes it pretty dang complex!"
Your mill looks great and it seems like you are very good at figuring stuff out to make it work better with each iteration, nice work!
I'll add this thread to my growing list of home builds for something I'll likely never get to. Thanks!
6/19/2021:
Soooo, a little update.
I thought I posted these additions. More of the Dish Network scrap metal put to use adding the tank for the lube system:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210616_a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1624286588)
Actually works really well. And the laser cut guide:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210616_b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1624286585)
So even though it eliminates the parallax error, this picture angle makes it look funny. Works really, really well! The red line is much finer then this picture makes it look.
Anyhow, put a big butt log on the mill and was running the head up. In the last iteration of putting the bigger lead screws on, I moved the motor to the engine end hanging out the left side. Well, that's the space for the gas tank to rise past the frame. That reduced the head height by about 20". Not good. Had a couple sheets of thin aluminum so made a bracket to push the gas tank further out and allowed it to pass the lift motor. I snapped a pic but not sure where it went.
However, the lift is sloooooooow. I need to change the gearing. Back to the cutting table.
I had the same issue with the fuel can I use. I ended up making my fuel plate that the jerry can sits on angled to help clear the frame and to get the last drops of fuel out. ended up working pretty well. For a future build that will be in a different location.
I still suffer with very slow up. I have thought about a momentary and on switch with a limit switch. use the momentary for lowering and the on for raising till it hits the magnetic limit switch I can move to set head height for log diameter. That way I can set the stop location for the next log hit up and go get the log while the head is moving. gets old holding the switch staring at the log not loading itself :)
Here's the quick solution to my gas can issue. It has the added benefit that it wobbles and you can shake the tank to see how much fuel is in it ;):
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210622_a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1624480275)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210622_b.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1624480274)
I also added a belt guard to keep my fingers safe from the alternator!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210622_c.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1624480280)
Back on reply #126 I showed my blade guide electric adjustment kludge. Cables and pulleys from a linear actuator to double the throw:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210514_j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621042598)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20210519_d.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621485618)
It worked and got me through the season. A guy posted 5 free 30" throw linear actuators (more sealed up than my old one). I pulled the old set up off and mounted one in parallel with my blade guide.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20220319_a.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1647711806)
Added a link to allow for any miss-alignment and it works pretty well. Slow but more travel than the old one. This actuator has 150 pounds of force so it shouldn't get stuck. The length of throw is still less than the guide can travel but better than it was. It gets down to about 10" now, was about 14 or 15" before. Full travel gets down to about a 6" gap.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20220319_b.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1647711280)
HOT weather next week will have me chomping at the bit to get back up the hill to mill. But there is still a chance of a big snow storm before summer arrives.
I bought a wired tachometer as well as a reflected unit to double check it. I mounted the wired one in my control box and for the reflected one, I put a reflector a strip on the fan cover that spins as well as the pulley on my drive-side band wheel.
I thought the wired one was reading high but the reflected unit verified it was ok. I was surprised the idle was actually 1,080 rpm. The wired unit gives readings to the nearest 10 rpm. So it would toggle between 2,000 & 2,010 when I tried to set it at 2,000. At that speed, I clocked the drive side pulley at 880 rpm. Now I have the ratio of engine rpm to band drive rpm 2,000:880, or 1,000:440, or 100:44. With the band wheels being 18.75" diameter, that gives 4.908 feet/revolution. The blade speed is then 216 fpm (44 x 4.91) for every 100 rpm. About 2.2 times the engine rpm for blade speed.
At 2,000 engine rpm, the blade is moving at 4,320 fpm. Looking at the Cook's (IIRC) info, at 18hp, I should target 4,500 fpm. My engine tops out at 3,400 rpm or 7,344 fpm (WAY to fast). I didn't think I was going that fast. Probably explains why my sawdust is so fine. I was thinking I wasn't pushing fast enough, but when I pushed harder/faster, the engine would bog way down.
With the engine speed now available, I'll try some experiments when cutting. I can't find an actual torque curve for my engine but the general curves show max torque around 2,800 rpm. That would give me a blade speed of just over 6,000 fpm. Still a bit fast. I don't want to go too low of an rpm and loose the torque, so I think 2,200 should be my bottom end and that gives me 4,750 fpm. And maybe my top end should be 2,500 rpm (5,400 fpm). It just sounds so slow! But, it should cut my fuel consumption if I can maintain the cut speed through the log. Maybe set the speed up but push to bog down to the right speed/sound?
If your running the engine at 2200, I suspect your on the wrong side of the peak of the torque curve. Once you get on the left side, the engine will bog as load increases. If you operate on the right side of the peak, torque will increase as the load increases and rpm decreases.
Yes, I get that. So I probably won't run it flat out at 3,400 but more like 3,000 and bog it down to 2,800-2,600 (peak torque area), hopefully maximizing the cut rate and quality. I've always ran it flat out and maintained a feed rate that just barely bogged it down. It will be a matter of learning the sound of the target speed.
I did a bit of research for you as I love engines. Your Craftsman 18hp engine is a Briggs and Stratton Model 422400 series. Alas, I was unable to find a specific dyno chart for your engine, but I did find one critical measurement.
According to the engine spec sheet, max torque is 28.5 ftlbs at 2600 rpm. Max rpm is listed at 3600rpm. https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Briggs-Stratton/18-HP-Briggs-Stratton-I-C-Engine-ES-28-1454.axd (https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Briggs-Stratton/18-HP-Briggs-Stratton-I-C-Engine-ES-28-1454.axd)
These numbers relate well to the hp/torque curves for the current B&S Vanguard 18HP engine(chart below). So the proper RPM to run at is 2700-2800 rpm. When the engine starts to bog, the torque will increase with rpm decrease. You should now be able to rework your FPM calcs to get a more accurate number for optimal performance.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/67554/350400-6.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1648433455)
Quote from: rusticretreater on March 27, 2022, 10:14:42 PMBriggs and Stratton Model 422400 series
Thanks for the input. That curve makes sense that my rpms drop so much at max rpm with min torque. Yep, Model 422437. It has a code of 88111412. Does that mean it was built in 1988? I guess if I need to rework my pulley size to keep the blade speed down? I'll see how it cuts at the lower starting rpm and then decide where I want to go.
I don't think the engine is that old. Yes, you should rework the pulleys to get the desired FPM. Everything should be in the comfort zone. You might think about a slightly smaller crank pulley and a larger driven pulley. This will increase torque further plus slow the blade down.
Maybe check out the pulleys on some other sawmills and see how they are sized. I'm not a mechanical engineer so I don't know where the point of diminishing returns would be.
Now I want to check my sawmill and find out those numbers!
Quote from: rusticretreater on March 28, 2022, 11:48:41 AMYou might think about a slightly smaller crank pulley and a larger driven pulley.
I have an electric clutch so not resizing my engine pulley. It will have to be the driven pulley going bigger - but might not fit!
My driven pulley is 12". I found a 14" on eBay for reasonable money. Looking at my mill, I think I can get it to fit with minimal modifications (a little cut here and there) and slide the engine over so I might be able to use the same drive belt. That would give me about a 13.5% reduction in speed and an increase in torque. Just waiting to see if my 1.5" bushing will fit their hub. They ship with bushings from 5/8" up to 1-3/8" included with the price. Worst case, I pull the shaft and turn down the end to 1-3/8".
If, as noted above, peak torque is at 2,600 rpm: My current rpm to fpm ratio is 216/100rpm. So with the current 12" driven pulley: 216/100*2600 = 5,616 FPM. Using the 14" pulley: 5616*12/14=4,800 FPM. A much better number and as the engine bogs down a little (say to 2,400?) then down to 4,443 FPM - pretty much ideal for my 18hp engine.
Replaced my 2 gallon lawn tractor gas tank and the 5 gallon plastic lube jug with two 5 gallon stainless kegs.
Fuel:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-04-20_16-56-59.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1650516948)
Lube:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-04-20_16-57-16.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1650516949)
Don't mistake those for a frosty treat during milling :)
6/14/2022
I had a few items on my agenda to finish on my Ford 545D yesterday and, amazingly, they all went smoothly. I brought up my mag drill to use if I had time to make a change on my mill.
The original build was for 3 sections of track. Two at 16'+/- and one middle one of 8' or so. On the short section I put a jack at each corner. The longer ones I set the jacks in about 40" or so. With the sections all bolted together, it was pretty stout. But I needed a longer track.
So I split the tracks apart and inserted 5' sections of 2x3x¼" angle track (with no supports or cross members). This track is only to support the saw head. A problem now arises if I move my adjustable bunks towards the middle (the inside ends of the long tracks). Setting a log on those causes the track to "pop a wheelie".
So, I removed the jacks, one at a time, and drilled new mount holes with my new mag drill at the corners. Man, I love that drill. Took longer to layout the holes than to drill them. Now I can move my bunks toward the center to accommodate the length of logs better. If you look at the near rail where the shadow line crosses, you see the four holes where the jack was attached. I've already moved the log bunk to a better location. It was was at the left edge of frame previously.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-14_17-11-57.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655332114)
Same here. The old location is in the full sun to the left and the bunk has been moved already, too.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-14_17-11-37.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655332121)
Here is the full track shot where you can see the "extensions" in place.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-14_17-12-35.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655332130)
I had to dig down a bit through the sawdust to get to solid ground again. I use 3/4" foundation stakes outside each pad to keep the mill from shifting about when loading logs. Like this guy. 17'5" 30/34" diameter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-14_17-51-32.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655332135)
Toolbox says it weighs in around 4,800 pounds. I think it's more than that because my SkyTrak got a little light in the rear end - it is rated at 9,000 pounds. Also, my Ford 545D is rated at 5,000 pounds and all I could do was lift the rear up with my very heavy Gannon box on it along with lots of wheel weights.
Plan to saw that log up tomorrow into a number of posts.
Nice work John.
I'll admit it, I have log envy. :D That thing is giant.
Well, that's the small one. The other two are 33'+ 36-48" diameter. That's next week or two's task.
Corner, after you get a few logs under your belt you will realize that bigger is not necessarily better. Every mill has a "sweet spot" as far as log size. I get excited when the log is in the sweet spot. Too big and its a bitch to mill.
Update 6/16-17/2022:
FP is right. Lots of work. Make an opening cut and wrestle with a 3-400 pound slab. Put a sling/strap around it and lift with the SkyTrak to rotate 1/8 turn. Go 180° and take another slab off. Repeat for the other two sides. Slice off a 8x25 flitch and use wedges to lift it so I can get a pry bar to move it to the side and onto forks. And so on. Took most of today to process it. Ponderosa pine is HEAVY! If I didn't have the SkyTrak, I wouldn't be doing this.
Yesterday, I set up my camping trailer in the morning and in the afternoon, I took the above log and made it into this 21x25 cant.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-16_19-37-51.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655517260)
That produced two loads of this. My neighbor took it for firewood for next winter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-16_18-46-36.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655517257)
Today, I changed my mind midway so I didn't get everything I wanted needed. Ended up with the 8x12 for the middle south post and five 5x9 loft floor joists. I need one more and with better planning, and sticking to it, I would have gotten it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-17_16-30-44.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655517275)
The joists will go here (the needed 6th you can see the place for it in the next bay).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-17_16-31-07.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655517290)
I've got this scrap 3.25 x 25 semi-live edge 17' slab, a 5x6 laying on it and a few 1.25-1.5" boards. I figure my neighbor can make a narrow 6-8' picnic table with half the slab, split the other half to make benches and use the 5x6 for trestle legs. They have a small deck so narrow might be good. There is enough other extra to make the bench legs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-17_16-52-45.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655517289)
It was cold last night so I had a little fire. Ah, camping!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-06-16_21-03-42.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1655517275)