Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[nativewolf]

@Don P another good post. we are driving to visit a mill.  Rain day here, so we stopped at a McDonald's sir restroom, 8 people ordering The only one not wearing a mask was the only young white male.  Go to Lowe's for safety glasses (needed for mill and we don't want to wear hard hats) and most young males did not have masks.  Disappointed.  

I have just seen costs estimate of the prized vaccine- ochhh

[Sedgehammer]

@kantuckid Yup, your age group needs to be careful x10. My mom who lived with my sister was kept pretty isolated. My sister a school teacher wasn't required to go back to work because of my mom. My brother in law worked for a paying company running the mill, so he was pretty isolated all the time anyways. 

@Don P Good post save the chatter. Public discourse should never be discouraged. 

[Real1shepherd]

I am very very disappointed in the ad hominem attacks on @Real1shepherd .  
He presented 2 facts, young people are spreading virus, the president gets special care.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/who-warns-young-people-are-emerging-as-main-spreaders-of-the-coronavirus/2020/08/18/1822ee92-e18f-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html%3foutputType=amp

And I feel there is no need for any links to the second fact, of course he gets special care , he is the freaking president.  

The ad hominem attack on Kevin are a poor reflection of a great forum full of diversity from around the world united by our love and interest in all things forestry related.  What does any posters political belief have to do with facts on epidemics or medical care?  None

Just so you know I consider cnn as credible  as other news sources; if you are watching the news, not opinion segments, that most broadcasts are factual- they spend a lot of energy getting facts right.  Some opinion segments are presented as news and are not.  

Thank you for that, nativewolf. And even so, I was "flagged" by the community administrator. I guess for using the name "Trump". There was no political reference or assassination involved or intended. And I'm not going to recant or change my posting. My news source is usually NPR and then I do my own research looking for white papers or university research.

My ex wife is a school teacher still and she's 71. She's taking all the precautions including wiping things down between ea class. Even so, the teacher right next door tested positive for COVID along with her biological kids. And then there was another teacher that just tested positive. So this sort of nullifies the idea that it always happens to someone else or it's rare.

Kevin

[Sedgehammer]

I have just seen costs estimate of the prized vaccine- ochhh

I'm seeing $19.40 per shot x 2 = $38.80. How is that 'ouch'?

[Sedgehammer]

I am very very disappointed in the ad hominem attacks on @Real1shepherd .  
He presented 2 facts, young people are spreading virus, the president gets special care.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/who-warns-young-people-are-emerging-as-main-spreaders-of-the-coronavirus/2020/08/18/1822ee92-e18f-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html%3foutputType=amp

And I feel there is no need for any links to the second fact, of course he gets special care , he is the freaking president.  

The ad hominem attack on Kevin are a poor reflection of a great forum full of diversity from around the world united by our love and interest in all things forestry related.  What does any posters political belief have to do with facts on epidemics or medical care?  None

Just so you know I consider cnn as credible  as other news sources; if you are watching the news, not opinion segments, that most broadcasts are factual- they spend a lot of energy getting facts right.  Some opinion segments are presented as news and are not.  

Thank you for that, nativewolf. And even so, I was "flagged" by the community administrator. I guess for using the name "Trump". There was no political reference or assassination involved or intended. And I'm not going to recant or change my posting. My news source is usually NPR and then I do my own research looking for white papers or university research.

My ex wife is a school teacher still and she's 71. She's taking all the precautions including wiping things down between ea class. Even so, the teacher right next door tested positive for COVID along with her biological kids. And then there was another teacher that just tested positive. So this sort of nullifies the idea that it always happens to someone else or it's rare.

Kevin

Here if you have comorbidoties or elderly, they strongly discourage you from teaching. I think they give you nearly full pay also. 

[doc henderson]

I think there a lot of great opinions.  I do not mean to attack anyone for the record.  but I am trying to follow the intent of the thread (see title)  We had a trauma meeting and our pediatric trauma surgeon presented by zoom.  spoke with her after, and she is at home due to covid.  We have a Pediatrician with same.  most folk in the ED with it, got it at home.  so the PPE and sanitizer must do something or we would all have it.  that is my opinion.  there are very few indisputable facts as I have mentioned.  Very few from the covid floor, ICU and ED have got the infection from work.  Post veterans day, we should all look back at the sacrifice of the greatest generation.  they gave up sugar, rubber, metal, and fuel.  Not to mention life.  I think we can wear a mask around others.  just my opinion.

[doc henderson]

some of the folks that come to ed just want tested so that they can return to work, as they get nothing.  our county commissioners put in an interim guy as they knew he would agree with them.  proponent of herd immunity.  the schools do not want input from medical people as they are trying to make parents happy.  Parents cannot work if there kids are home from school.  so lots of areas in life are ignoring science to comply with an agenda.  we will all survive or not.  and hope it will be over soon, and not recur after everyone has had it or been immunized.  I feel well, and I am not afraid to get it, but I also have a responsibility to my co-workers, family and patients.  Be strong and be safe.

[doc henderson]

I think the major cost of the vaccine will be to the tax payers not the individual directly.

[Real1shepherd]

I am very very disappointed in the ad hominem attacks on @Real1shepherd .  
He presented 2 facts, young people are spreading virus, the president gets special care.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/who-warns-young-people-are-emerging-as-main-spreaders-of-the-coronavirus/2020/08/18/1822ee92-e18f-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html%3foutputType=amp

And I feel there is no need for any links to the second fact, of course he gets special care , he is the freaking president.  

The ad hominem attack on Kevin are a poor reflection of a great forum full of diversity from around the world united by our love and interest in all things forestry related.  What does any posters political belief have to do with facts on epidemics or medical care?  None

Just so you know I consider cnn as credible  as other news sources; if you are watching the news, not opinion segments, that most broadcasts are factual- they spend a lot of energy getting facts right.  Some opinion segments are presented as news and are not.  

Thank you for that, nativewolf. And even so, I was "flagged" by the community administrator. I guess for using the name "Trump". There was no political reference or assassination involved or intended. And I'm not going to recant or change my posting. My news source is usually NPR and then I do my own research looking for white papers or university research.

My ex wife is a school teacher still and she's 71. She's taking all the precautions including wiping things down between ea class. Even so, the teacher right next door tested positive for COVID along with her biological kids. And then there was another teacher that just tested positive. So this sort of nullifies the idea that it always happens to someone else or it's rare.

Kevin

Here if you have comorbidoties or elderly, they strongly discourage you from teaching. I think they give you nearly full pay also.

No...you have what they do and policy in the big cities versus what they do rural....this example is rural. Before the teaching season, they wouldn't let her in the building because of her age. She did 'distance teaching' all last spring. But come August, the word was she was 'magically' expected to teach in the classroom come Sept. As Doc said, the pressure to babysit kids(teach) is HUGE and driven by the parents that both work.

She'd like to retire, but her school district retirement was trashed during the recession. It's down over 40% to what is was pre-recession. I still think she should retire, but she's taken the 'wolf at the door' stance.

I can tell ya this, the school district was really fumbling for COVID protocol and much of it was not science based, but hearsay. And she's not gonna get near full pay if she doesn't teach because of her age.....not sure where that came from.

Kevin

[kantuckid]

Interestingly, the medical services are often 3-4 months behind now but are serving people like me in spite of the covid infection rate seen lately. 
In my case it's not life or death but I do need some TEETH! ;D

[Tacotodd]

kantuck, you are absolutely and positively spot on about relying on and reading facial expressions for human communication!

[Ed_K]

 Here in western Ma. all 4 counties are getting a fast rise in covid cases, 4 a day in our county but our little farming bedroom town is still covid free ;).

[kantuckid]

kantuck, you are absolutely and positively spot on about relying on and reading facial expressions for human communication!

Perhaps my 20+ yrs as a counselor figured into me saying that. 
Talking about younger people getting too close, mingling in crowds, etc., I have wondered how they even hook now days? 
50+ yrs ago my wife & I "sparked" outside Ft Gordon, GA and I might have missed the boat had she and/or I been wearing a mask. 
Even my younger grandkids in elementary speak often of the friends they make. We are talking about serious human needs r.e.,  socialization, not just getting out for a good time. 
I just did a car side PU of some Rx hydrocodone for my oral surgeries pain and the girl was new to us and pre- masking we might have recognized her, not now...

[LeeB]

Communication is an issue with masks for us hearing challenged folks. You don't realize how much you learn to read lips until you can't see them. Not being overly social anyway, I can deal with that in  favor of the masks. I wear one. I'm old, fat, and have asthma and can still breath just fine with one.

[Real1shepherd]

If you call the hospital here and say you might have COVID, they will tell you to shelter up, drink plenty of fluids and get lots of rest...but NOT to come down to the hospital. So if you are over 65, get COVID and it's serious, you'll have to get(and pay for) a ride to the ER in an ambulance. I'm guessing they would take you at that point....but not sure.

They have these little tent things lined up outside the ER entrance, but I never see anybody there....I'm not sure what those are about. I've taken two friends recently to the ER for non-COVID related stuff. They threw me out of the waiting room once I helped one friend check in. The second time, I told them I was family and they let me come back to where my friend was.

Kevin 

[Ianab]

Same situation here, you are told to phone your Dr or the national health line. If they then think your symptoms  / exposure risk warrants it they will send you for a "drive-in" test. Big tent in the hospital car park. You don't get out of your car, the full PPE kitted nurse takes your details and does the test, and you drive away again. "Stay home until you get a negative test". If it's positive it's handled case by case. 

There was one positive community case yesterday, but that's been genetically linked to 3 other cases after an Airforce member that was working at one of the quarantine centres got infected. That ruled out another quarantine breach, and undetected cluster of cases. They haven't found a close link between the 2 cases, but they live / work in the same general area. 

But with low numbers that's the level of tracing and testing that can be done. The virus RNA was sequenced overnight to check that it was from the same infection source. 

Central Auckland was very quiet today as people were asked to stay home until the situation was assessed, but alert levels haven't been raised. 

[Gary_C]

I am very very disappointed in the ad hominem attacks on @Real1shepherd .  
He presented 2 facts, young people are spreading virus, the president gets special care.


The ad hominem attack on Kevin are a poor reflection of a great forum full of diversity from around the world united by our love and interest in all things forestry related.  What does any posters political belief have to do with facts on epidemics or medical care?  None
  

ad hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

So where are the offending attacks against a person? My post was all about being told what I and others think.

They're usually asymptomatic and don't really care about masks and sheltering. It's their 'right' to spread the disease....just ask them.

Just because many of you think this is a joke

I did not believe those claims (statements) were about "Just the Facts" nor against a person. So I too am very disappointed. Oh for the irony. 

[kantuckid]

To point out differences in approach to covid- yesterday I had oral surgery in the same small college town as my Tuesday dentist visit nearby which required a covid test last week. I drove a 60k RT to get that test but at no cost for the actual test. I assumed they charged Medicare as I'm in their system on paper? test are free many places, are they not?
I hardly expect someone to "take me" to my medical appointments? That said, the Medicaid cabs are letting people off at every medical appt. I go too. They have signs on the door from all over eastern KY and a car/van full at that. 
Calling a hospital to say "I think" "I might have something" is hardly a call to arms? 
I had an aunt who did whatever she could to get admitted to a hospital, visit a doc, etc.. 
Poof Poof sniffles and people head for the doc. I stay away unless there's no other option, especially in covid times.  
In my county we have an ambulance tax on our real estate property taxes, yet the nearest hospital where the heliport/homebase is located, that medical aviation company asked us to pay an added fee to become eligible for their services. I refused to pay so I suppose I'll die on the roadside if I'm in a wreck? along with the other roadkill... ;D
  The oral surgery center never mentioned the test, yea or ney. They also didn't have me wash my hands before I sat in the chair nor gargle after I washed. They did have a masking requirement & asked those waiting to go back to their cars until live action began. I had no car as wife was doing a mammogram down the street and stayed inside.
As to Gary's comments, I concur. Not a call out & personal,  just prefer no politicians names attached to the thoughts presented. 
 

[doc henderson]

yes when we are swamped and short staffed, and some folks are not breathing well, it can be hard to get excited about someone who cannot taste or smell.  There is not enough antiviral meds for everyone, so not much to do if you are breathing ok.  some will continue to escalate their reported symptoms to get a test.  no symptoms and we send it to the state.  symptoms and you get a rapid, and results in 15 minutes.  if presumptive negative it gets forwarded to the state to confirm (30% false neg. rate).  If you are sick, low oxygen, dying, you get it all.  intubated and put in ICU.  I wish we had more meds that worked, so we could treat elderly before they are symptomatic.   we see cases tested + last week, now sick so admitted and get the antiviral.  the meds are regulated and doled out by the state health department.  we still have to ration our testing supplies.  that is on the companies that make the machines.  they can just not get ahead of the curve, since the numbers are going back up.  this is the only point of mitigation.  the only benefit of getting a test and finding out you are positive, is so you can stay home and quarantine to keep 10 more people from getting it and overwhelming the medical system, and avoid your elderly friends and family.  with a long incubation period, you may have been shedding virus for days, and it is already to late to keep them from getting it.

[Real1shepherd]

I am very very disappointed in the ad hominem attacks on @Real1shepherd .  
He presented 2 facts, young people are spreading virus, the president gets special care.


The ad hominem attack on Kevin are a poor reflection of a great forum full of diversity from around the world united by our love and interest in all things forestry related.  What does any posters political belief have to do with facts on epidemics or medical care?  None
 

ad hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

So where are the offending attacks against a person? My post was all about being told what I and others think.

They're usually asymptomatic and don't really care about masks and sheltering. It's their 'right' to spread the disease....just ask them.

Just because many of you think this is a joke

I did not believe those claims (statements) were about "Just the Facts" nor against a person. So I too am very disappointed. Oh for the irony.

I made some comments/opinions, you jumped down my throat and I got flagged. How that is fair and equitable posting policy, I haven't a clue. I've got broad shoulders, so give it your best shot.

Kevin

[barbender]

How did anyone jump down your throat? You seem to create your own weather, imo. You started off on this thread by basically calling the doctor wrong in his area of expertise...

[dougtrr2]

I am pretty sure the wife and I got Covid a week ago.  Minor symptoms, some still lingering.  We went through TestIowa drive through testing today.  They were well organized and efficient.  I guess I didn't realize that when they do a nose swab they have to take the sample from the back of the eyeball. :D

Doug in SW IA

[doc henderson]

Vaccine shedding - Wikipedia

looks like we were both right.  it is rare now but can occur.  was more of a thing during the ice age when I was in school.  smiley_old_guy any vaccine can have complications, but needs to be safer than the disease.  The danger is if enough folks fear the vaccine, then not enough will take it to control the spread.  Public health is designed to look at the good of the population overall.  sad for any individual if they have a serious complication.  but prob. saves thousands of lives.  Much of the proposed complications are not proven and used as propaganda.  politics have tried to take advantage as well it seems.  

[trapper]

tuesday got my second shingels shot  wednesday cut some wood for a friend  did less than normal  by 2 0clock was wiped out got home and slept for about 12 hours.  my thinking was it was a reaction from the shot  Thursday morning fine.

[kantuckid]

I got a shingles shot back when they came out. I've never known that I should have a 2nd one?