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Author Topic: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????  (Read 4217 times)

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Offline KMAN

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How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« on: January 30, 2011, 04:39:06 PM »
Planning on going away for a few days and they want it down in the teens and maybe almost zero at night when I am away, so my concern is how long will it take for the water to freeze. I dont have anybody to keep it running and since CB installed the new valve that will not let water through under 150 degrees what is the correct way to deal with this? Before i was not worried I just would turn off my hot water valve and let the water circulate and pull the fuse in the boiler so the fan dont run. The when the house heat ran which is propane the water circulating through there would get enough heat and it would not be a issue. Now I am not sure waht to do. I still will pull the fuse so the fan dont run but for a few days of very cold temps will it freeze the lines? It is under 2 days so how much will the water drop? I have my pipes from the furnace insulated before they go down in the ground so is that enough? If I turn it off the night before I leave and the temp is at 185-190 will 2 days away at almost zero temps be a issue? any thoughts? :-\

Offline stumper

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 06:54:18 PM »
I would not trust it not to freeze.  You should by pass the valve an adjust things as you did before.  I ask this very same question of my dealer and if I rember correctly you take a washer hose and go from spigot to spigot close the valves and you are good.  That said call your dealer or CB and have them tell you how to by pass the valve. 

If it were me I would by a high quality stainless steel braided hose as normal hoses do not get exposed to 185 degree water.

Offline upsnake

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 07:48:27 AM »
The valve does allow a trickle, of water through it when it is below 150 degrees, it does not completely stop the flow of water to your furnace hx.

I asked both CB and my dealer and they said the flow of water to the hx is enough to keep heating your water and keep your boiler from freezing.

Note: I have not tried it so take it with a grain of salt. :)

I at some point am planning on letting the fire die and letting the system run on the propane furnace for a day or two, (not that i want to use the propane but just for the piece of mind to know if the gas furnace will really heat the water.

That way it is a controlled environment rather than when i am gone) haha

Offline Just Me

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 08:49:38 AM »
 Look in the phonebook for a local licenced handyman service and pay them to load the stove. The fuel that is not being burned will probably pay the man, you are contributing to the local economy, and you can do what you have to do without the stress of worrying about your heater. He does not have to go in the house. Once you have this relationship set you will be able to leave at will in the future.

Just a thought.....

Offline Dean186

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 01:16:54 PM »
This situation is why I didn't install the valve.  The new valve has it's pros and cons.

I liked the suggestion "Just Me" posted.  or

Without the new valve Central Boiler sent out installed, I would:

     *    Let the inside furance heat the OWB water or

     *    Bypass the indoor water from circulating through the heat exchanger and turn the outside furnace off, letting just the OWB water pump circulate water. 
           (note: my CB 1400 water pump will run when furnace is switched off, it has to be unplugged to switch it off) 

Offline Mooseherder

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 02:19:16 PM »
I always thought there was anti- freeze in the pex tubing?
The handyman idea sounds good though.
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Offline rowerwet

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 04:40:14 PM »
there is anti freeze in the pex if you put it in, other wise there is just water with treatment in it.  pex will handle freezing better than most pipe types but your OWB will not take it...
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Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 07:07:10 PM »
thats a roll of the dice i wouldn't try. have someone tend your fire
the experts think i do things wrong
 over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Offline darnet

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2011, 08:04:49 PM »
This is one reason why I didn't install the valve either. the other is they sent a 1 inch valve and I have 1 1/4 lines. I did make sure it wouldn't void the warentee also and it doesn't.
  Scott

Offline doctorb

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 09:06:32 PM »
Ditto Darnet-

I still have the 1" valve they sent me.  I have 1 1/4" pex.  Would anybody out there like a free valve?

I installed a loop after the pex enters my basement for just this scenario.  I can manually make a loop any time I wish, preventing the stove water from passing through the heat exchanger by shunting it directly back to the stove.  Have to open a couple of valves and close a few more.  Takes 1 minute.  So I have a choice when we are going to be away.  I can:
-
1.  Let somebody throw wood in while we're gone and change nothing or...

2.  Let the fire burn out and leave the valves as is and use the oil burner to heat the stove water or...

3.  Separate the two systems, leaving the pump on the stove to constantly circulate the water in the stove, and separately heat the house with oil.

I know that the purpose of the valve is to prevent condensation, but my stove temp hasn't been below 160 degrees since I started heating in November.  I remember talking to CB about the valve, and I think they told me (this was last year) that the valve is required on all new stove installations to maintain the warranty.  Those installed pre-valve are not voided by deciding to not install it.

KMan:  To address you question, if I were in your shoes, I would pay for the extra oil to have my indoor furnace keep my outdoor furnace from freezing.  Its an inefficient and relatively costly, but very reliable, way to make sure you don't have a disaterous problem.  To be extra careful, you may want to shut down a day ahead of time to make sure your oil heat is working well.  If your confident that the backup oil will kick on, stoke the fire before you leave to minimize the amount of oil you use to protect your OWB.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline woodmills1

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 10:48:01 PM »
If I am leaving for anything more than a burn time(btw less than 30 hrs for my monster)  I would drain and refill   Yes PIA but safe safe
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline Dean186

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 07:53:06 PM »
KMAN,

This pertains somewhat.  During this last cold spell the heating element in our hot tub failed.  The tube holds 500 gallons of water and was without heat for a least 4 days.  When I got it back up and running the water temperature was down to 60 degrees from 104 degrees.  There is a lot of mass with 500 gallons of water just like there is with the 400 gallons of water in your furnace.  It takes a while to get that much water to freeze if it is insulated very well.  The difference would be water lines, however the tub has water lines between the outer and inner shell.

Offline doctorb

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2011, 04:14:26 PM »
I don't think that I can answer the actual "freeze" question, but here's my tiny experience this week.

Filled the stove with my regular load Tuesday evening, and then didn't add more.  When I shut her down, except for the circulating pump, on Wednesday night, the temp on the stove read 166.  I just got back (Saturday afternoon about 4 pm) and the stove temp is at 94.   I separated the recirc loop in my basement from my indoor oil furnace, so there was no heat transfer from the oil heat through the heat exchanger.  It has not been cold here, barely freezing at night and unseasonably war, during the day while i was gone, so I think a further temp drop would have occurred under different, colder conditions.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline muckamuck

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2011, 09:56:02 AM »
I went on a one month vacation and got back a couple weeks ago.  Temps. were below zero.  Here is what I did:  My e2300 is normally set to about 190 and I do not use the cold water bypass valves because normally I never get below 165.  I took the back covers off to expose the pump and fitted stryofoam tightly all around and even separated the pump area from the fan box area, and I insulated the door panel and close it up.   I let the fire die and turn the power off at the outside control box but my pump in the back runs 24/7 (see previous post last year for pics and explanation).  Then I stuffed newspaper into the stovepipe to prevent drafting.  At this point you could just put a thermostatically controlled electric heater into the fire box, but I did not do this.  Instead I when into the basement and turned off power temporarily while I cut the wire to the furnace circulator that runs to the heat exchanger, put a male and female electrical sockets on them and put a timer on it so the pump from the oil burner to the heat exchanger runs only 15 minutes a day.  Then I turned the aquastat from the normal 150 up to 180 so the oil burner would run while I'm gone.  Now the oil burner heats the house, and runs 15 minutes of heat to the heat exchanger once a day that sends heat out to the e2300.  When I returned after a month the outside temp was about 10F but the temp in the e2300 was about 80F, warm, but not a big heat loss because it is well insulated.  I disconnected the timer, plugged in the heat exchanger circulator as normal, turned the aquastat back to 140, pulled out the newspaper from the chimmney and started a fire.

Offline doctorb

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2011, 11:03:59 AM »
Muckamuck

THAT is a great idea!  well done!  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline Dean186

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2011, 11:42:52 AM »
Muckamuck,

With all that you suggested, one should be able to make it through the entire winter without the water jacket freezing. 

I like the timer idea on the pump and it in itself would be enough to make it for a couple weeks.

When I insulated my pump and pipes at the back of the furnace I too separated the area from the air/control box.  I also insulated all my panels (the two at the rear of the stove, the excess panel to the heat exchanger, and the access panel to the reaction chamber) with 1/2 inch rigid reflective insulation cut to fit the inside of each panel.  The rigid insulation cut to fit the panels are held in place by spray adhesive.  In front of the panels is still the fiberglass insulation.

I believe that I could go a week or two with just intermittent cycling of the pump like you suggested. 

Offline muckamuck

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Re: How Long Does A E-Classic 2300 Take to Water Freezes????
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2011, 11:38:54 AM »
I should have added that you still need someone to check on things every 3 days or so.  In the middle of my vacation my oil burner stopped working, but our cleaning lady found the house at 41F and got the furnace people out to fix a clogged jet and the house warmed up again.  Don't assume everything will work, have a backup plan.


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