Log Stop Alignment

[johnjbc]

Sawmill alignment question.  My 1990 Wood-Miser has 4 log stops 2 powered and 2 manual. There are also 2 buttons and one adjustable stop opposite the clamp for cutting close to the deck.
The 2 powered stops are about 3/16" in front of the others. Shouldn't they all line up? They adjust vertically but I don't see any way to adjust them in and out.
I checked them with a square and also measured from the band to the rails all OK
But my cants aren't square. Any Ideas? ??? ???

[Bibbyman]

I think that looks right.  The buttons are only used when the back supports are all the way down.

Also,  I'm thinking the plate opposite the clamp should line up with the buttons, not the back supports.  But I could be wrong.

Our 96 Super had the same type clamping system and the clamp plate was not square when it was up.  I had to watch that it did not push the cant too far over and thus out of square.  The WM guys said the only way to fix it was to cut the little rod off on the bottom side of the plate that the prop props against and weld it back a little higher up. I didn't bother,  I would just clamp tight and then back off a little.

We would have the most problems when trying to edge lumber.  The clamp would always push the flitches over too far from vertical.  We solved this problem by edging with a cant against the back supports.  We would saw down to the last couple of boards,  then edge against that.  And then saw up the rest of the cant.  Worked much better.  Some place their flitches between the cant and the back supports.  It does the same thing but we just found that between the cant and the clamp worked better for us.

[Kevin_H.]

I too have a hard time keeping the powered log stops in square...Bounce a couple of big logs off of them and they may be out.

I have found when sawing most 1" lumber, being a little out does not make too much a difference as it will only show up on the sides of the boards.

I try to keep my manual stops as close to true as possible, if a customer needs a perfectly square cant, I will use the manual stops to make the last couple of money cuts.

[johnjbc]

Put the square on the clamp in the up position and it looks OK Also checked the stops again and they are square. Just cant figure out why the power stops don't line up with the manual ones. ??? ???
When I clamp a cant I can see it rotate as the clamp gets tight. : :
Maybe I need to check them when a cant is clamped. :P :P

[Tom]

John,

 if you are saying that the cant rotates as you draw the clamp tight against it then it could be that the clamp is loose (worn) rather than unsquare. Mine does this when the clamp (1990 old style WM)  is down.  I can get someone to hold the clamping edge down as I tighten it and it won't raise the cant.  I've tried to tighten it and never could figure out how. I also have large allen-bolts on it with broken-out sides and the bolts are frozen.  I gave up trying to get them loose years ago. :-/

That is going to be one of my priority items when I rebuild the mill one day.

A hint from a WM employee years ago.  He said that folks try to clamp cants too hard and that is what forces the dogs out of wack before their time.  I've tried to temper my use of the hydraulics and not squeeze the cant so hard.


I don't use the manual and hydraulic dogs together except on very rare occasions.  It doesn't matter to me that the manual ones are not exactly lined up with the hydraulic ones as long as the manual ones are aligned and the hydraulic ones are aligned.  

[Kevin]

On the LT if you tighten the clamps too much you can force the cant off the bed on one side.
I have a feel for it now and just snug them up, wiggle the handle on the clamp when in doubt checking for any movement.
The other problem I just ran into was when checking the dogs I found them to be square but when I applied pressure to the cant it would move about 1/8" back until the dogs moved back to the stops.
A quick adjustment to the stops and everything is perfect, and I mean dead on corner to corner on the cant.
I level the bed, string it, check the band height on both sides against the bed, check the dogs for square and I'm good to go!
On the second cut of the cant the finished side goes against the dogs and I look for any space between the wood and the steel dogs, there shouldn't be any space.
For the third cut, with one finished side on the bed and one finished side on the dogs and without using the clamps the cant should be square to the dogs and bed.
If I loosen the clamps after the cut and the cant moves I have something out of adjustment.
I can mill all day long without rechecking for square.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Mine ain't a WM, but, if I clamp too high and too tight, I can flex the stops about 1/8th out of square. Once my cant is square, I use just enough pressure to keep it from moving around.

[Bibbyman]

I'd be tempted to try a little "Kentucky windage".  Maybe adjust the back supports to get about 1/16" lean and see if they straighten up after the cant is clamped.  Maybe they have worn enough to have that much play from relaxed to loaded?

BTW,  your 90 model Wood-Mizer has a lot of paint left on it.  Has it been re-painted or used very little?

[Kevin]

If we're talking the log dogs not lining up with the smaller log stops, my LT is the same.
It doesn't matter once the cant is square and I make those cuts with the log dogs up as high as the cut will allow.
Once the cant is cut square with the initial cuts it will lay flat on the bed and square to the stops or dogs as long as too much pressure isn't put on the clamps.

[woodmills1]

I have had the clamp apart on my 93 lt40 and there are two plastic friction blocks that fit between the clamp and the square tube it rides on.  one of the plastic pieces on mine was worn to a taper.  I flipped it end for end but still could not get the clamp square.  I ordered new ones but have not yet installed them, so like the rest I back off on the hydraulics if I need a very square cant.  When edging i find if I clamp when the hydraulic dogs are all the way up and then lower them the boars will almost always stay closer to vertical.  I like the idea of using a cant as a backer, and I think I will try that.

[johnjbc]

Thanks for the replies, will do some more checking if it ever stops raining.

Bib it has 1300 hours on it and the paint was faded when I bought it. J I Case Flambeau Red from Tractor Supply matches pretty good.

Kevin  It has 4 stops in addition  to the 2 smaller stops.
2 are  hydraulic and 2 are manual, everything lines up but the 2 hydraulic ones.

Someone has added a bar between the tips of 1 powered and one manual stop. When Wood-Miser did a tune up on my mill last fall the told me it  didn't come that way.
Maybe it should come off.. : :


Woodmills I will take a  look for the plastic stops.

Ever sense I got the mill out of the barn 3 weeks age it rains all the time. Maybe if I put it back it will stop. Need to get the garden in. 8) 8)

[johnjbc]

This evening I got a chance to work on the mill. Took the cover off and noticed the key was on. Ute-Ho dead battery.  ::)Went into my work shop and flipped the light SW on. No light. Tried another light. No go. Then I remembered pinching an extension cord under the bucket when I put the backhoe back on the tractor. : Found the 50 amp breaker that feeds the shop and barn had tripped.  Hooked the battery charger up and got the mill started. :D :D
Put a 2x4 against the top of the clamp and applied pressure. When I put a framing square on the bed rail and clamp face it is about 1/4 " out. 8) 8) With out pressure it reads square and you can't move it by hand. 8) 8)



In this Picture you can see a split bushings. When my mill was aligned they didn't think the bad bushings would hurt anything. Need to take it apart and look at the plastic friction blocks Woodmills talked about. :P :P About then I felt rain drops : so I got my gear lube oil can and soaked the Allen screws Tom had trouble with :( :(. Don't know why but it works better than penetrating oil if it sets over night. :P :P (Maybe Mark knows why)  ??? ???



It sure helps to post problems here. I was checking the stops and didn't think to check the clamp.

Jeff I used XCAT to rotate these pictures and the bushing isn't round. Any Idea why? ??? ???

[Minnesota_boy]

There are 2 brass bushings on the log clamp prop that wear.  My clamp did the same as yours until I replaced those bushiings.  It's a 10 minute job and the bushings are cheap. I'd try that first.

[ElectricAl]

John,

If you have adjusted the back stops to the max, but are still out of sq., they need to be replaced. We are on our 3rd set of hydraulic stops on our 1993 LT40HD. 4th flip clamp. 2nd clamp box. 3rd slider pads. 2nd set of clamp box arms, and a bunch of bushings.

Did you check the bushings in the flipper for the clamp plate?

[johnjbc]

After  talking with Wood-Miser on Tu. I ordered new bushings for the arm that pushes the clamp box and got instructions to reverse the slider pads. After work I backed out the set screws, weren't  very tight, and slid the slider pads out. They were worn down to .310 in the center of ether end and about .285 along the edges. Was expecting them to be tapered on one end. Put it back together and when I started to tightened the set screws one broke.
Wed. Morning I ordered new slides and set screws. The new ones, Wood-Miser is sending are 1/2" longer this will put the lock nut below the bottom of the Allen socket and prevent a reoccurrence.
Will put the calipers  on the new sliders when they come and see what they measure.

[johnjbc]

Here are some pictures of the parts I replaced. Took care of most of the play.
Now the log it stays square unless I clamp real hard.
Still about a 1/16 in of play in the flipper arm. Next time I order parts I will replace those bushings.

The old bushings fell apart


The new set screws are longer than the origonals

Edge view of old and new pads


There is about .1 of wear on the old pad

[Slabs]

What!!!  No saw marks on the clamp????

Jeff ain't gonna like this.