Hydro-Ax 221 shear wont cut. swapped heads.

[Jasen logger]

My step dad bought a 221 tri wheel with a smaller single grip processor head on it. Some part time kid owned it before. He cut some trees with it but it was weak. Seemed like it was not set up rite. My step dad decided we would change it back to a 16'' rapid buncher. We found one that is in good shape because it sat up for a long time. Cylinders were greased. all is well. We mount it and hook up the 4 lines and it operates, a little slow. He goes to cut a 5 inch tree and no cut. Maybe 1/4 in. Pump is not whining, no funny noises. just no power. It does have that saw controller in the cab, is it hooked to the foot pedal. It currently does not turn. This is why the saw head was gutless! Im not sure where to start. Could it be in the pedal controller, to bypass fluid. We think the fluid is bypassing somewhere. We capped off some hoses that were put in for the processor actuators. they were a 1'' in and out. Not so sure how it was spliced into the machine. We figured capped should not hurt the rest of system? Could the cylinders gone that bad sitting? Any advice would be nice. Were just getting back in with some cheaper stuff, Iron Mule too. On a budget too. Thanks for reading

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum

Some pics of the Hydro shear would be great.

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[Corley5]

Relief valve.

[snowstorm]

if it is a closed center system with piston pumps you can cap the hoses. if its open center you cant. you could if you dont use the valve connected to it. i assume you have a morbark rapid buncher head. i had one once on a tracked machine. mine had open center gear pumps. each section was 30 gpm at 2200psi. it would cut 16" hw and did it pretty well. the 4 hoses are pressure and return for the knife and grab arm the other 2 go to the bunching arm. its been a long time since i had it but seems like there was a flow valve on the head so that once the grab arm closed all the oil went to the knife cyl. just call morbark they know more about it than all of us 

[Jasen logger]

UPDATE. Got a pressure gauge and checked the head. When operating the shear that wont cut, pressure gets to 4oopsi. We then dead headed the line and at idle it killed the 1000psi gauge so fast. machine gave a small grunt. Pump has good pressure. This shear has sat for 20 years. We think the fluid is bypassing in these old cylinders? Or the block where the lines come into the head, Is there a proportional valve thing putting only so much pressure to the grab arm. Main arm and shear are off the same control. I dont think there is a valve thing in the block. I will try to post pictures.  Cant get pics to upload. 

[snowstorm]

tee into the knife cyl and see what the psi is. piston pumps or gear??? if piston it would have standby pressure maybe not quite 400psi but close. dose the grab arm close first?

[Jasen logger]

I believe there is 4 pumps on this machine. 2 for the drive wheels and one for all smaller cylinders and one for the knife. I talked with a guy who used to run these back in the day ansd he confirmed that there is a proportional valve of sorts in the fluid block on the head that would have limited pressure going to the arm, while putting higher pressure to the knife. My step dad is going to get into that block. We think after sitting that this valve is froze up causing total fluid bypass. Good Times. Hopefully were onto the culprit. Thanks for all the help on here.
   

[Jasen logger]

It is the culprit. But it is missing. I think it is called a sequence valve. Im trying to find out what the part numbers are to see about availability. It looks like the only way to identify is to look at another rapid buncher. I have called a few people to see if they can get the numbers off of there heads for this part but it is not easy to see. Have not heard back. Trying to get started with this old tech. so close, yet so far. Does anyone know this part? Please.

[Corley5]

Maybe a call to Roland Machinery in Escanaba would be helpful?  They helped me solve a couple issues with the Risely Slingshot I used to have.

[snowstorm]

if its a rapid buncher it was built by morbark. 14" with one moveable knife the other was fixed. call morbark

[Jasen logger]

I was told it could be a Barko 16'' Rapid Buncher. The missing part is in the Fauver FV1108 Hydraulic manifold block and I think it is called a sequence valve. making the arms close first before the knifes. In the hole where this screw in valve goes there is a few steps down in the bore. I measured the depths of the steps and used telescopic gauges to measure the 3 different bore sizes. I took it in to Flemming in Sagola, MI. It is going to get looked at on Monday. Maybe he can figure out what belongs there and get it or machine it to a new size for one of like pressure range. Or does it regulate pressure?  I see a few of these shears for sale around WI  Ive asked a few people to look for a part number on it but no luck. One guy said he would e mail pics but have not received. Im tempted to go to one and offer them $100 to take it out if needed to Identify it. Not sure. Maybe Monday will answer some questions. It is easy to see the routing in the block. I went online looking at a good Sun PDF for these screw in sequence valves and it goes through and explains the different designs and port locations for the application. Will Know more come Monday. We have called all around looking for part or identity from many large equipment salvage yards and no luck. This is old stuff....   

[Jasen logger]

One more follow up in case of another with the same problem. Finally fixed and working thanks to Flemming Fabrication in Sagola, MI. The ordered a smaller aluminum block for a new Sun sequence valve in it. We eliminated the manifold block and set up with the new hardware. It does exactly what we wanted. Not sure on the part numbers but this is an alternative if you are missing these parts. Thanks for help on here and Flemming's.