Hyd. pump won't shut off

Bro. Noble · September 06, 2006, 04:20:39 PM

I suppose the solynoid is stuck . I jarred it with no change. I've disconnected the ground wire to the switch and can cripple by by toutching the ground wire to the mill frame while activating the hyd. control handles. Anyone know of a quick temporary fix that I can try till I get a new one or is the trouble womewhere else?

Thanks,

Tom · September 06, 2006, 04:37:28 PM

Yep! I got one. ;D Assuming you are talking about the woodmizer.

This might work for other machines as well, though.

Disconnect the solonoid. It is stuck. Bypass the solonoid with a piece of wire and run it that way until you can get another solonoid.
(Just touch the wire to the wire from the motor to make it work or break the connection to stop it.)
It takes a special solonoid so go ahead and order one from Woodmizer. Matter of fact, order two so that you can have a spare. They succumb to the rigors of a hard-working sawyer now and again. :D :D

Now, do this Tom fix.

Get one of those clearance lights like you put on a truck bed. A little one is best.

Mount the light outside of the hydraulic box somewhere where it won't get hit by a slab or board. I put mine on the front of the hydraulic box, between it and the manual winch.

Ground it there. Get your power off of the hydraulic motor or the output of the solonoid.

Now, when you engage your hydraulics the light will come on
When you let go of the handle the light will go out.

If the light doesn't go out, that means that your solonoid is stuck.

It might seem that you will always know that it is stuck because you can hear the hydraulic motor. Not true, grasshopper. You will find that your concentration on sawing and the drone of the engine will have you missing this little bit of information. The light is hard to miss.

Larry · September 06, 2006, 05:27:00 PM

My friend uses a large rubber head mallet to unstick the solonoid. Of course it's only a temporary fix...think he's going on 4 years now with the mallet.

Slabs · September 06, 2006, 07:48:56 PM

Hey Bro

You might try taking off one of the "little" wires off the solenoid to isolate the trouble away from the excitation circuit though it's still probably the solenoid that's stuck. If you have one of the solenoids that's bolted or riveted togather, you can probably disassemble it and free, clean and rejuvinate the contacts with a file, sandpaper and posssibly some solder. If you have the riveted togather unit, drill out the rivets and reassemble it with #4 machine screws if it is repairable.

While the Miser replacement is a sure thing, practically any good heavy-duty starter-type solenoid will work when properly wired up. Just beware that everybody has a different idea of how to make a solenoid and it may take some experimentation to find out how to attach the primary lead/leads.

I've even pried open several crimped case solenoids and rejuvinated them back into a servicable condition.

Good luck

Minnesota_boy · September 06, 2006, 08:17:14 PM

The microswitch that activates the solenoid was adjusted (by youirs truly) just a little close and would sometimes keep the hydraulic motor running. A slight tweak on the mount for the microswitch solved my problem. 8)

Bro. Noble · September 06, 2006, 09:57:08 PM

It's the groundwire from the microswitch that I disconnected and am using to manually ground when I want to use the pump kinda like Tom suggested. I don't believe it is the microswitch messing up, but I'll see if I can tell. I'll try thumping the DanG thing some more before I take it off. I still have the one that I took off before (it wouldn't turn on). I think I'll see if I can take it apart and repair it, got nothing to lose ;D

Thanks, everbuddy for the help.

isawlogs · September 06, 2006, 10:20:00 PM

Not just any solenoid will do , There are many types of solenoid , that being said. The one on my lt40hd went bad , the mallet worked to get me through the day ... but I needed a replacement . I have a Western plow on my truck ... it has a solenoid operated pump . Guess what is running my mill now ;D

BBTom · September 07, 2006, 08:14:05 AM

Along the same lines, I have installed a small toggle switch in my control panel that bypasses the micro-switch. I use it whenever the micro-switch slips a little, or is just not working right. It is so much easier to adjust the micro-switch when you are relaxed after a job, rather than in the middle of a job with helpers standing around looking at you.

Bro. Noble · September 07, 2006, 10:03:03 AM

How do I tell for sure if it's the solenoid or the microswitch?

VA-Sawyer · September 07, 2006, 01:29:44 PM

If you can make the pump start and stop by connecting and disconnecting a small wire from the solenoid then the solenoid is OK.

Think of a solenoid as a big switch that uses a low power electrical actuator to turn it on. Applying voltage to the 'control' circuit tells the actuator to turn the switch on. Remove the 'control' voltage and a spring turns the switch back off. The 2 BIG wires are connected to the switch, and are electrically connected when the switch is on.
The small wires are the 'control' circuit. I don't know on your mill if the voltage goes to the microswitches first, then the solenoid and to ground, or if it goes to the solenoid first, then to the microswitches, and any switch can provide the ground. If a switch is shorted internally, or stuck in the ON position, it will always be telling the actuator part of the solenoid to turn on the BIG switch. I think that is what is happening to you.
If the BIG switch part of the solenoid is stuck ( contacts Welded together ) then the spring is unable to turn the BIG switch off and the only way to get the pump to stop running is to disconnect one of the BIG wires.
Hope this helps you figure it out.
VA-Sawyer

Tom · September 07, 2006, 01:44:28 PM

In my experience, switch failure caused me to not be able to use that switch to turn on the pump. The other hydraulic controls, each with its own switch, would work. The switch is nothing but a thin piece of wire and can burn in two.

If the pump won't turn off, it is probably that the solonoid points are stuck together. Rapping it sharply with something will usually break the connection temporarily.

My guess is the Solonoid is bad.

Spare Solonoids are a good thing to have as spare parts anyway.

Raphael · September 07, 2006, 02:17:27 PM

Quote from: isawlogs on September 06, 2006, 10:20:00 PM<snip> ... but I needed a replacement . I have a Western plow on my truck ... it has a solenoid operated pump . Guess what is running my mill now ;D

I guess that's why it says "making sawdust or plowing snow" under your avatar not and. :D

sawguy21 · September 07, 2006, 04:31:07 PM

:D :D :D Now that was observant.

VA-Sawyer · September 07, 2006, 05:25:38 PM

Tom,
In this case, I feel that I have to disagree with you. Go back and read Reply #5 from Noble. He says he is controlling the pump by using the wire from the microswitch. If the solenoid was stuck closed then he wouldn't be able to do that.

I do agree with your statement that if one switch fails then normally you can still use the others to run the pump, but that is true only if the faulty switch is failing to make contact. IF the microswitch should fail in the closed position then you would have the problem that Noble describes.
I also agree with your statement that it is a good idea to have a spare.
VA-Sawyer

Tom · September 07, 2006, 05:29:10 PM

Yep, you're probably right.

Bro. Noble · September 07, 2006, 09:38:32 PM

Tom and VA Sawyer, I really appreciate your help and will order one of those dudes the next time I make an order. I just got some brushes and grinder blades Tuesday :

Well, when I started sawing this morning, I toutched my wire to ground and no pump. pulled the hyd. lever and the pump goes on------it fixed it's self overnight

Say, you don't suppose some of my parts that didn't work too well today will be back online tomorrow do you 8) 8) 8)