What type saw for 1 to 2 man operation ???

[Warren]

Folks,

I'm looking to sell my LT15D10 and step up to a hydraulic band mill.  My goals are: Short Term - increased part time production (continue to build the business) and Long Term - potential for viable full time business for 1 or 2 people.  I am typically a "bigger is better" kinda guy.  But, reading CustomSawyers thread on LT70 vs LT40 got me thinking (watch out...)

Is it possible to buy too much saw for a 1 to 2 man operation ?

Obviously 3 motivated individuals can crank out some serious lumber on an LT 70.  But, is having an LT 70 a help or a hindrance when a person is sawing by their self ?

Likewise, when sawing alone, is it better to have a "walk along" type mill ?  Or one with a detachable / movable control center ?

I understand the need for as much horsepower as one can afford.  But, is it possible to buy too much mill ?  There's a wealth of knowledge and information here on the Forum.  I appreaciate your comments and feedback.

Warren

[JimBuis]

The challenges I see are many although not insurmountable.  Disposal of sawdust and bark.  You may increase your production so much that you can no longer dispose of the waste products.  Checking into a secondary market for the waste might be in order.  Adequate storage for stickered lumber to air dry or kiln space or service.  Will you be able to get the drying processing done quickly enough to keep up with your production?  Do you have a sufficient market to take all of the  product you will be producing or will you have to store it until later in the year when there is greater demand?

Just a few thoughts.  Now maybe those who REALLY know will pitch in here.


Jim

[Tom]

Warren,

You asked for an opinion and I've got one ...or two.   Can't keep my mouth shut.  :D

Yes you can buy too much mill.

You can buy a mill that requires more people than your operation will pay for.
You can buy a mill that is configured such that your support equipmet is no longer any good.
You can buy a mill that requires that you become stationary and start building structures and buying land.
.....and you can buy a mill that will cut more wood in a day than you can stack or have room to dry.

On the flip side,

A mill that is designed to do what you intend to do will work better, usually, if the horsepower is maxed out.   Horsepower also allows you to run hydraulics and log handling equipment quicker.  Hyraulics are almost indispensable in a custom business environment, or a production environment.

Walking beside the mill has its good points.  It lets you touch the wood and judge its grade, keeping you intimately envolved with the product.  It makes for a mill that is easier to setup and to carry behind a truck. Having shorter runs of hydraulic hoses and electrical wire may keep maintenance down.  It may just boil down to what makes you feel more comfortable.

Moveable control centers get you out of the way of other workers, but might make it difficult for you to see or judge your product.

If you aren't walking, you might sleep better at night.  ....or at least you want mind getting up in the morning.

The same goes for setworks.   In a lot of custom sawing situations, setworks get in the way.  In a production atmosphere where repetition is common, they will make your day a lot more pleasant.   Do you have to have them?  No.  But, you will sleep better.

[WH_Conley]

Drive about an hour and I can show you the best and worst of both worlds. I have 1 man that helps me all day, we run short, need another man. I have a nephew that helps me about 3 hours a day, helps production, hard to keep him busy. Come on up and sit on a log a day and you will see what I mean. I am running a 25 HP gas HD. Anything bigger you would need 3 people full time. Sawyer , offbearer and loader man/lumber stacker. Everyone would have to be willing to overstep the bounds of their job description

As far as finding 3 "motivated individuals" Good luck.

[Bibbyman]

We have the LT40 Super and support equipment (loader, edger, dust blower, etc). We really can't start to use the sawing potential until we have three people working it.  It'll almost keep one person busy putting logs up to the skid deck, removing slabs, edging's, lumber.  Then one person running the mill and another pulling and edging, etc.

Now,  if you can pull into a job site with all the logs racked up waiting to go and saw for a day just pitching the slabs far enough away to get past and kicking the sawdust down, then just pull off and leave the mess,  then two people can make a good showing of the Super.

[DanG]

Can't disagree with anything thats been said, so I'll just tack on a couple cents worth. ;)

I don't think you can have "too much mill", but you may get more mill than you can really justify.  You need to really do some homework and try to determine if stepping up another notch is going to pay for the difference in price.  That difference can be substantial.

I think you need to determine if you're going to work alone, or hire some help.  That would influence some of the choices I would make.  For instance, I wouldn't try to saw alone without a board return, or "dragback."  In order to use this feature effectively, when working alone, you need to be positioned behind the mill, not walking beside it.  On the other hand, if you have help, the dragback still helps, but you can still walk along or stand beside, or however you feel comfortable.

I see you have a list of support equipment in your signature line.  Lookin' good there! 8) 8)  Who's gonna operate all that stuff?  If you're working solo, you can only do one at a time, so the size of the mill becomes less important.  If you're retrieving your own logs with that knuckleboom truck, you are envied by most who are reading this, but nobody is operating that mill while you haul logs.  It is easier to let a $20k or $30k mill sit idle than a $60k one.  On the other hand, with the LT15 you're running now, I can see where it's hard to justify the other toys. 

I vote LT40 Hydraulic, or the equivilant.

[bull]

Been there done that. Went from an LT15G13 to LT40SU36G.... great machine,money well spent....
the 15 was a great mill and alone you can produce about the same #BFD in a day however your body is in better shape at the end of the day.... W/ 2 people you can double productions and feel good at the end of the day....... Get all the extras,every hydralic option,debarker, dragback, accuset etc....

[Percy]

Folks,

Obviously 3 motivated individuals can crank out some serious lumber on an LT 70.  But, is having an LT 70 a help or a hindrance when a person is sawing by their self ?

Heya Warren.I have an LT70 remote and I work alone with it often. I used to have an incline conveyor that the flitches were "dragged off"" on to,  and with this system while working alone, I could cut about 4 or 5 logs before having to deal with the "stack". I dont think Id buy a LT70 if I was always gonna work alone but with one good helper(usually myself with my son doing the sawyerin..heh...)we have had some great days. You do need to have receiving tables?place for the flitches/boards to be dragged onto by the LT70/40 and an efficient material flow to approach the potential of an LT70 or LT40 super.

What Bull said is good info in my opinion(get the options).

Since I have had my LT70, the only "developement" I have done is downstream, so to speak, from the mill. The mill is very capable and I have yet to reach its full potential.

An entertainin old timer watched me cut one day and I said to him, mebey I should modify the hydraulic power system on the 70 so it worked everywhere as opposed to just one end. He said "What for??" I said "It might save some time." He looked at the huge pile of flitches waiting to be edged/processed and he said to me, "Whats the point of fixin your throat when the real problem is your butt is plugged." :D :D :D :D

[Chris Burchfield]

I don't have but 50+ hrs. on my super w/command control. Cut mostly for myself, one day for a *DanG (Good) Yankee who had some oaks stacked and ready. Picked up from Will and the Guys in MO. last July. The year has thrown some serious curve balls at me. Not had the time to do much cutting. Just had 60 blades delivered. Haven't used up the two boxes I ordered w/the mill. I know things will turn around. I did order the Command Control on account of I have a decent GR7815 Radial I have a lot invested in and don't want to loose. It's not a 70 okay, but it'll cut an extra foot the 70 won't. I brought her to a screetchin halt over @ Arkansawyers on a piece of Walnut. But I was being pushey and was trying to see what she'd chew. A fair bit more out on the front end but, I could work three hard all day as long as they'd last or I can be content for now those days I can be out there with the logs I've stacked and chew through them at my leisure. Man, machine, sawdust, 51 cat, nope can't hear the cell or pager. Good luck with your direction.

[Kelvin]

I've got the lt-40 25 hp gas.  In reality i spend 10% of my time sawing, all the rest seems to be eaten up by stacking, cleaning, maintainence, fixing, sorting, hauling, cleaning some more, drying, edging, machining, trying to sell, paper work, advertising, taling with customers and looky loos, handing out freebies, cutting firewood, packing and shipping, delivery, and etc. 
A few things that i would do differently.
I'm wanting to be stationary now, and an electric motor can't be beat for torque.  Or a much bigger engine, as i saw wide boards a lot, and i can't run thick and wide enough bands to keep from wandering in the cut, so i have to change out blades every 200 bd ft.  Keeps me sharpening a lot.  Oh, thats one more for the list, sharpening and setting!
Building infastructure is critical and never ending.  Concrete slabs, buildings, storage trailers, log yard.
Can never have enough support equipment.  Is the sawmill last on your list?  Might be that money would be better spent on say and edger or a grapple loader.  You can't have one piece of the puzzle super more effecient than all the rest and not expect a pile up.
JUst some ideas.
KP

[Warren]

Folks,

I appreciate everyones feedback.  A lot of good info and thoughts to chew on.  Thank you !

Warren

[timcosby]

and with employees comes weekly deposits for taxes, qaurterly taxes etc etc etc  been there done that not fun!
and finding someone who will actually want to work has become a real problem around here they all want paychecks but don't want to work to much don't know what this country is comming to.

[tcsmpsi]

I too have evolved into the non-employee status, and have been employee free for the last 12 years.

Hmmm....that kinda sounds like something from AA.   :D

[BBTom]

I think everyone has given you some good advice, I will just add one more voice about the command control.

I normally start the next cut and then handle the last board off the mill, either thru the edger or to the stack.  By the time I get back to the mill, the cut is done, and I drag back the board, flip it over to check what the face of the next board will be like, and make my decision as to cut another or turn the log.  I do whichever I need to do, start the cut, then repeat the above. 

I don't run the feed as fast as I could, cause I don't have time to do my board handling if I do.  But I can get into a groove and get alot sawn in a days time this way.  Having the command control makes it work, if I had to run to the other end of the machine to retrieve the head, it would not be very effective. 

I agree that a 40 super (mine has the Kubota 42 horse) can work 2 or 3 people easily even with an excellent outflow setup. 

[Chris Burchfield]

Arkansawyer hit the nail on the head with a much earlier line of remarks. With something to the effect, they'd rather work in the air conditioned W-Mart and get paid to talk on the cell phone as a greeter than to do the kind of work we do to keep this country what we were. Sorry folks, just had to add another two cents worth.

[gates]

Warren,

I live in KY and am looking for a starter mill. If you do want to sell the LT15 contact me at 270-999-2102 evenings

Thanks,
James