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Big Tooth Aspen/Poplar

Started by TomG, November 27, 2021, 07:28:07 AM

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TomG

I have a 50 acre woodlot in central Maine. About 7-10 acres have varying amounts of Big Tooth Aspen. In some places the trees are tall and "old", some already dying; within an acre or two they are dominant. In other areas they are putting out root saplings wherever there is sun. I am managing the woods for variety and animal habitat, with some interest in timber value. Overall, the lot is mixed northern hardwood with lots of balsam fir, red and sugar maple, all types birch, cedar, red & white pine, tamarack, ash, oak, hemlock, etc. It's rough terrain and historically, seems to have been used entirely as a woodlot. The only area that may have been plowed is the few acres where the Big Tooth predominate or are numerous.

My question is how can I best manage the Big Tooth Aspens to promote species variety? I girdle some of them if they are competing with a better tree, but often they are alone or in a stand. Should I girdle or cut down, say, most or many of the up to 10" diameter root offspring of the larger trees? In open areas, I am cutting out all the suckers I see. Any thoughts appreciated.

Lebel Logging

We have a lots of aspen and some big tooth here in Québec. I think that a good way to promote regeneration of other species in those stand can be tricky cause they are often even aged. If you can spot the biggest and older one take them out. I would do this and leave the young one for shade. If you open too much, aspen will come back again. I would protect the young tree of other species, some time maple can come quick under big aspen freshly remove, depending on the soil. Aspen will probably regen quick too but I would let them grow for like 10 years and come back with a brush cutter to promote the most wanted species. 
Thats my point of view  ;D Im curious to see others point of view cause we have lot of forest like that on our woodlot. :P :)

TomG

QuoteIf you can spot the biggest and older one take them out. I would do this and leave the young one for shade. If you open too much, aspen will come back again.
This is a good idea. Leave the younger aspen and also any balsam fir or others for shade. Take out the younger aspen only when there is another species ready to replace it. Might also be an idea to encourage beech in that area. I have some areas where younger aspen are towering over balsam fir thickets, so probably best to take those out because no way they can regenerate. Thanks for the input, already a big help.

SwampDonkey

Those understory fir under the aspen can be as old or even older than the aspen. They will mostly be bad in the stem wood and the tops like umbrellas. Only fir you want to leave is ones that are tall, lots of distance in the whorls with a good growth rate still on the top. I've aged understory fir before, some woodlots they are the same age as the aspen and other places they were 40 years older, 65 total, near the end for them. I have 27 year old aspen up here in NB that are over 10" diameter, the large tooth are 18". My ground has been intensively thinned, still is. Right now, the majority of the land has no under growth. I have begun favouring hardwood and have taken 16 cord/acre off the ground for firewood. I've been removing a lot of cankered aspen, it is often 30 feet up and sometimes you look once, looks OK, look again and see the tell tale sign of dead flaky bark, with smooth green bark above and below it. Gotta go, or it will be for the worms in 2 years. Size does not matter to hypoxolan canker. The dominant trees are 70-75 ft tall, all 27 years old including the smaller diameter ones. To get other trees in, you need a seed source. A junk, stunted, rotten fir is a poor choice. I have found red maples and ash to be prolific and don't have to be very old. Ash is a gamble right now, but I have to work with what I have or hand plant something. If you have some tall fir, good interwhorl growth, not like a bean pole, good tall leader, that is your seed source. A 40 foot fir should be around 12" to withstand wind when spaced out. They typically snap off above ground, where as spruce will uproot. If you could get some red spruce seedlings, try a few in openings, they are very shade tolerant. But hare will hit them hard if you have a boon of varying hare around. White pine is not as tolerant, but can do well in open aspen, needs some overhead clearance. Moose might be a problem with the pines.

Some things to mull over, good luck with your management activities. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

TomG

SwampDonkey: I am already favoring red spruce over balsam when conditions are right for that. The balsam thickets are good for animals and I see plenty of skinny young hardwoods getting above them with no help needed from me, so I mostly leave them alone. Based on your comment, I am going to start taking out more or all of the aspens in thickets like that; these aspens are typically under 10" diameter. Much of that area has thick undergrowth, mostly balsam.

Nearby is an area with poor undergrowth, lots of blowdowns, and a fair number of dead red spruce. It's on a somewhat exposed slope which is drier than other areas so I am guessing lack of water, poor soil, and wind account for all that. Aspens in this area are sometimes the only tree standing for 20' or more. Seems it was logged ~25 years ago. Couple of young oak are doing well on the edge of that. I have no idea what to do there.

SwampDonkey

I had plans for some red oak that the wildlife brought in and some acorns I sunk in. The wildlife have decided to manage those. Between hare browse and monkey bears destroying crowns, it's a lost cause. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

barbender

Bigtooth can actually yield some impressive growth on the right sites. Tall, large and clear. If there was much of a market for aspen veneer you could make a mint on it.
Too many irons in the fire

KEC

Not my area of expertise here, but, so I understand, those stands of aspen are often all connected to a common root system and cutting some causes it to grow more with a vengeance. Just a thought that comes to mind, would it be adviseable to cut some of the aspen in the fall and treat the stumps with glyphosate to kill it. SD, do you have an opinion on this ?

TomG

KEC: Have read aspen root systems can live 25 years with no aboveground growth, but sprouts need lots of sun. So the basic strategy is to preserve or encourage enough shade. Left alone, aspens kill themselves off because they shade out their own. Poisoning the roots would probably work but I don't want to do that.

barbender

If you just thin aspen, it often doesn't open the canopy enough for root suckers to sprout. They need full sun. If they get full sun, good luck stopping them! 
 
 I remember once, when working on a paving crew, we paved a driveway that was on a built up road bed going through a swamp. Off to the sides grew the normal swamp specimens, black ash and balmy (Balm of Gilead, aka Black Poplar- an Aspen cousin). Well about a month later, I got dispatched to go repair what was supposed to be rocks pushing up from the base into the asphalt, cracking it. Odd, I thought, being that the ground wasn't especially rocky and that is usually a springtime phenomenon. So I got there to check it out. Sure enough, there were cracks so I removed the asphalt to expose the base. Instead of rocks I found Balmy root suckers! The nearest trees were 15-20 feet off the edge of the driveway. I don't know if the added heat of the fresh black asphalt woke them up, but these roots had actually grown under the asphalt from the outside edge of the lawn. I didn't know what to tell they guy, other than he needed to figure out a way to kill the trees. 
Too many irons in the fire

Lebel Logging

From my experience when you cut aspen in fall, it tend to be less aggressive regeneration. Never cut it in the spring, it will explode and be everywhere. Like @SwampDonkey  says balsam fir can be small and really old. Im doing a thinning right now in a mixed harwood stand dominated by maple, birch and aspen in some spot, there is a few balsam fir in the understory. I stop to count the ring some time, most of the time I do this the tree is between 50 to 90 years old and the average size is 6 inch on the butt. So its a gamble to let them there, they can be dry standing a few years later. Species that can live old must be prefered in my opinion  ;D :) 
Its nice to see all your point of view  :P ;D

Southside

What town is your land in Tom?  Popple was always the first to take hold in a hay field that was let go for a few years.  Always loved those calls when someone would ask if I was interestd in farming their ground that "wasn't cut for just a few years".  
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Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

Here's one with fir thicket under it. It's 36" across for scale. Not my land, I was thinning an adjacent stand of 50 acres with clearing saws in white cedar.









She was a brute and still healthy. I shoulda nominated it for the Great Trees of New Brunswick, not far in off a field. I had some bigger aspen at home a few years back, but by the time the book was being put together they were big fat dead barrels. :D :D  Oddly enough I have a notion to plant a row of them, they are fast growing trees and pretty foliage in fall, goes orange at first then gold yellow.



"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Jeff

Ive got a few close to that size, and quite a few more snapped off or windthrown from a huge storm a few years ago.


 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

I've got a couple small groves on my land of largetooth, smaller than that picture of the grove.  I've got a couple or 3 dominant ones in those groups that are pushing 20 inches now. They aren't 30 years old, clearcut ground in 1994. They are bigger than the trembling aspen on that old field I have been cutting firewood from. This is on wild ground. I like looking at them when I hike bye them. I think they are an awesome tree. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Otis1

Bigtooth aspen turn into good wildlife trees when they get real big/ hollow. I've seen a lot of natural canopy gaps in hardwood stands where an old bigtooth fell down and the sugar maple seedlings underneath took off. 

Clark

If you want to manage for a variety of wildlife habitats and you are thinning most of your property, or at least promoting an uneven-aged structure, it might make sense to clearcut small portions of the big tooth.

As others have stated, it grows fast. It will come up thick and create a very different forest type than hardwoods, conifers or a swampy mix. This would be the easiest way to manage aspen of any variety. It would also allow you to focus your more involved management on fewer acres and hopefully do a better or more thorough job there.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

TomG

Clark: total lot size is 50 acres. if I clearcut a few acres or less of dense aspen, should I also take out some of the small and medium size aspens that are growing elsewhere within thickets of balsam, spruce, birch? my main aim is uneven age and variety; don't want any more aspens or to let them dominate other areas. any thoughts will be helpful

Clark

There are a number of things you can do to promote or discourage aspen. If you cut in the summer it will come back less densely. This applies to clear cuts or removing individual trees. Cutting in the winter it will tend to sprout back more vigorously.

Any shade left on aspen will hamper it. There is evidence that shade cast by different species is of different quality. Oak, maple and beech shade is less favorable to aspen then aspen, birch or jack pine. So if you can keep those hardwoods around, even if they are small, they will discourage the aspen.

If you do a clear cut or two for aspen take everything out of the clear cut down to 1" diameter. That will allow the aspen to dominate there. If you remove aspen to discourage it try to do it in the summer and leave some shade in the area.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

SwampDonkey

Been thinning out aspen for firewood. I still have 800 trees to the acre of softwood and hardwoods. There is enough shade that even though the aspens sucker it only gets about 2 feet and turns black by the end of the summer. In other words it doesn't amount to much. And I cut it spring through fall, don't see any difference in vigour. Only trail that suckers much is near the main road where I took out a lot of old junk. Ash and maple sucker in trails some, aspen will but turns black and the top bends over. Up the hill a few feet away from the road where I first cut aspen out, it's mostly ash and fir taking over.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

TomG

Clark: Thank you, that is very helpful. I am going to take a look tomorrow or soon with that in mind.

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