Clark 664 winch questions

[Dozer993]

I just purchased a Clark 664B that has been sitting for at least 12 yrs. I have rebuilt the engine, checked the finer gear and re installed. Runs great, hydraulics work great. Will not move as yet, have to check pressures.
 My next issue, it has a gearmatic winch that will need a complete rebuild. It also came with a Clark winch. Just wondering if anyone knows what would be involved in swapping to the Clark winch?
Thanks

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Welcome to the forum!

The Gearmatic 19 winch has it's own winch control (basically a double master cylinder) and controls the winch via pressurized brake fluid. I'm assuming the Clark winch is hydraulically operated which means you will have to tap into the hydraulic circuit and mount a proper winch control valve and add the necessary plumbing.
The Clark winch has a good dependability record. Most of the important pieces are available for the Gearmatic winch however 12 years of non use may have left the band components in a rusted petrified mass. Have you pulled the winch cover to take a look?

[Dozer993]

C5c,
 I have not removed the cover yet. The machine itself is in very good shape and has had very little use. It was parked due to coolant in the oil. (One coolant o ring in the head was torn from a previous repair) one side of the winch control is seized. I would assume all the actuators are stuck in the winch also. 
Just trying to figure out the least painful direction to go with the winch!

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Some of the Gearmatic winch problems you have now were discussed in a recent thread. You may find this interesting.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=120843.msg1947840#msg1947840

[thecfarm]

Dozer993, welcome to the forum.
Skidder for your own use? 

[Dozer993]

Thanks the farm!
Yes the skidder is for our own private woodlot.

[Plankton]

If it were id swap in the clark winch. Should be a direct bolt in other then controller and hoses.

Do a search on here about gearmatic problems there is lots of readi g material.

Pop the side cover off first. thing. lots of the issues are fairly easy to fix and parts are relatively cheap. Once you get it going keep it covered and use it every once and a while even if you just hitch up to a tree and winch the skidder back and forth a few times.

[Dozer993]

From the research I have done I would need a relief valve for the Clark, a controller, hoses and some fittings. I'm not sure if the drive shaft is the same or not? Not sure if there is anything else that I would need to do the swap?

[Dozer993]

I wonder if someone would have a hydraulic diagram of how the Clark winch is plumbed in?

[Gere Flewelling]

Here is a picture of the Clark winch on an F666 that my son recently purchased. It is from his OEM service manual that came with his machine. 

I hope this helps.  I believe the F666 is a much later model.

[KamHillbilly]

I wonder if someone would have a hydraulic diagram of how the Clark winch is plumbed in?

I have complete manual for Clark winch , it may still be available online 
https://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Ranger/Operators/R2598.pdf
https://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Ranger/Service/R3231.pdf
https://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Ranger/Parts/R6510.pdf
I'll look in shop tomorrow see if I have anything else 

[BurkettvilleBob]

I had my first experience with a gearmatic winch this winter, fortunately I only needed to replace the brake and clutch cylinders. One could probably spend close to 3k if the clutch and brake bands were also in need of replacement. I think it's a great winch when it's working though :D 

[rockwall]

The Clark winch is a beast! I couldn't believe how powerful it is. I would go for that.

[Dozer993]

I finally had time to get the cover off the gearmatic 19 winch. It is a rusty mess after sitting for years. Where do I even start to take this apart?
Thanks for all the info guys.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

A printable online service manual is available here:
https://dozerwinchparts.com/content/WEBDAV%20MANUALS/Carco%20Legacy%20Parts/-%20Model%2019%20%26%20119%20Gearmatic.PDF

A short video that explains the basic winch operation here:
Fixing the Gearmatic 19 winch - YouTube

[Dozer993]

Ok I got that mess apart! Where would be the cheapest place to order bands? All 4 bands are junk! I got everything else freed up and moving. Will need a few bearings and seals also.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Ebay has a fairly good selection of Gearmatic 19 parts listed. Looks like a band set is about 2050.00 plus tax for aftermarket new stock.

Make sure the bores on the clutch and brake slave cylinders are nice. If pitted I recommend replacing them. Flush the old brake fluid out of the winch control and lines and replace it with DOT 5 brake fluid (military grade).

All the rust needs to be sanded off the inside and outside of the drum. The bands are designed to grip bare cast iron and they will not work decent if there is a polished rust scale on the friction surfaces.

[Dozer993]

Yes I have everything sanded and clean. What is the reason for dot 5 brake fluid? I have read that it doesn't make as much of a mess if you get a leak?
Thanks

[Dozer993]

 

 

[rusticretreater]

DOT5 is a silicone-based fluid that was developed for use where moisture or water is almost certain to be a factor in the braking system, such as motorcycle applications, heavy duty trucks and machinery.  Do not mix it with other fluids such as DOT3 or 4 which are glycol-ester based. 

[C5C Tree Farmer]

That is rusty! It would appear that rain water has been seeping in between the side cover and the case. A thin layer of chassis grease put on the mating surfaces of the cover will go a long way in keeping the water out of the band housing.

Conventional brake fluid absorbs moisture by its composition and is quite corrosive to iron parts if the fluid leaks on them as it continues to absorb moisture from the air. Dot 5 does not absorb moisture so if a internal leak develops it behaves like more of a hydraulic oil leak.

If the bearings in the live swivel feel rough at all it will need replacing.

[Dozer993]

Yes rain water was entering from the vent (cap missing). Also the drag spring and bolt were missing.
 I got it all back together and flushed and filled with dot 5. Can't seem to get the brake side to bleed. Clutch side working perfect.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Did you have the master control apart or did you flush the control as an assembly?

[Dozer993]

 I flushed it as an assembly as it felt really good. I think I'm going to have to throw it in the ultrasonic cleaner and put two rebuild kits in it. Was some rusty looking stuff at first.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

You are headed in the right direction. Make sure the itty-bitty port that allows the brake fluid to flow into the cylinders is not corroded shut. Bleeding is easier if the cylinders are filled though the discharge ports before hooking the brake and clutch lines on.