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Standing dead E.R.C.

Started by MotorSeven, March 11, 2006, 05:10:42 AM

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MotorSeven

Ok guys/gals, i'm new here and to harvesting/milling, so i have some questions. I have a large stand of Eastern Red Cedar on my property. Most trees are in the 10" to 12" in diameter. I plan on building my log home out of the ERC, milling down to a 6" D shaped log.  I have been using alot of ERC(fence posts/small pole shed) that was knocked down by the loggers who came thru about 6-7 years ago. Both the old and green trees seem to be healthy thru and thru. The logs are alot easier to handle after they have air dried (obviously), so can i "ring" these trees and let them stand dead for 4-6 months? Or, should i mill green logs?  What are the pro's/con's for each method?
Go easy...remember i'm a "newbie" ::)

RD
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

Ron Wenrich

By being "easier to handle", I suppose you mean they are lighter.  I have never sawn any dry cedar, but have sawn lots of dry hardwoods.  If I had my druthers, I'd saw them when they were green. 

You really don't get too much advantage to killing them in advance.  Sure, they are a little lighter in weight, but they still aren't dry.  Most of the moisture leaves by the end of the log, with only some going out by the surface.  By girdling the trees, you still have no way for the moisture to escape.

I have sawn dead standing oak that still had very high moisture contents.  These were dead for many years.

Sawing dry logs is hard on blades, and produces a finer sawdust, which is harder on the lungs.   
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Brad_S.

I have nothing constructive to say, just wanted to welcome MotorSeven to the FF! 8)
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Tom

Ron's right, in my opinion.

Saw it as soon as you get it off of the stump.  The sap wood will be the first to rot.  If left to the elements, you will lose a lot of wood.   Cedar cuts as if it is soft, but it is brittle.  You will smoke blades cutting it dry.  You may not realize how hard it is on the blade because it is coming apart so easily, but dry cedar wears out blades at a much greater rate than green cedar.

If you make the whole house from ERC, it's sure going to have a potent aroma. :D  I can hardly stand to enter  cedar closet after it's been closed up for a week. :)   Bet it'll be pretty though.

Ron Wenrich

I think if you seal it, the aroma isn't that much of a factor.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

MotorSeven

Hmmm, ok, i did not know that it would be harder to cut dry, but it makes sense. Well, that just means that i can get right to cutting and stacking as soon as the mill is up and running :D! I have to say the stuff even laying on the ground for 6+ years is amazingly solid. A 12' log can be picked up by one guy, but a greenie takes 2. I have already planned on a good winch and a "V" shaped 2-wheel cart to skid the logs out with a wheeler, so the green weight shouldn't be too much trouble.
And yes, i do plan on sealing the entire inside of the house from ceiling to floor. The last house i built in E TX (mid 80's)out of pine got sealed with polyeurethane and we sprayed it. I think the new water based poly will be the way to go this time.
Thanks for the welcome....you may want to re-tract it after my gazillionth question ;D

RD
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

ellmoe

RD,

   I agree with Ron and Tom, dry logs are hard to saw and dry ERC are nasty! The dust will be everywhere, down your shirt, floating in the air, in your lungs! I didn't really understand why or how the insect repellent value of ERC  work until I started sawing it, how quickly I learned! :o

   In my experience the cedar smell will quickly fade from an open wall. In a enclosed area that is not the case.

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Cedarman

Sapwood on cedar logs will last at least 2 years, even on the ground. Up off the ground cedar logs will last 3 or 4 years.  Depending on when the trees are cut down a beetle will lay eggs under the bark and when the larva hatch will leave marks on the surface of the log before burrowing into the sapwood and making 3/16 holes.  It can be severe to mild depending on the number of beetle larva.  Rustic furniture builders seem to like the worm defects.  If you see little wasps flying over the older logs you know you have beetle larva.

We don't notice too much difference in sawing dry logs versus green. Although it does dull the blade a little faster when dry.  Your mill must be tuned pretty good because of the changing grain and big knots in some cedar.  Sticker your cants after cutting and be sure to keep out of direct sunlight to minimize checking.

If you want a whiter sapwood, saw the logs as soon as cutting and pressure wash the remaining bark.  Letting the bark stay on the log will make for a darker log.

Does cedar have an aroma, I haven't noticed lately.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

MotorSeven

Cedarman,

I have read a bunch of your posts and was hoping you would chime-in! Since i'm cutting to "D" shaped, i will only have the one bark side out. Now instead of trying to peel that side, can i wait until a whole wall is up, then pressure clean the bark all at once? I know it is best to get the bark off because of all the little nasty things that live and eat there, but if i don't mind the beetle tunnels i shouldnt hurt to wait a few months to blow all that stuff off? Or, should i get a good peeler and do it after they come off the mill?
One more thing, and it's too late because i already bought a Hud-Son, but am i nuts for doing these logs with a chaisaw mill? I plan on a 660 or 880 as a powerhead, and i know how to keep a blade sharp.

RD
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

Cedarman


I have noticed that logs cut in winter have the bark really tight.  In the spring the bark will peel in long strips and is easy with a draw knife.  If the logs set to long the bark sets as if glued on, then becomes loose about 6 months to a year later and comes off easily.

When we pressure peel the logs the mess is considerable with bark pieces and water everywhere.  With logs above head height, all that mess will fall out of the sky.  You might get water trapped between the logs.

As far as sawing, I think keeping the corners square and each log the same dimension would be the important thing.  Never used a chainsaw mill so don't have a clue the things you have to be concerned about doing it that way.

Logs that might not have the best appearance on the sawn side can be used where kitchen cabinets  will hide the logs with the wrong kind of character.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

MotorSeven

Cedarman,

Ok, thanks for the info. I'm not too worried about the "wrong" character. The erc seems to have a lot of variation in color, so i will mostly not let same looking logs get spiked/screwed down on top of each other.  I should have the mill set up by summer, and will experiment with getting the correct size on a consistent basis, with full production by winter. This will give me some lead time to decide if the chain is going to work well enough or not. I hope to start on the walls sometime in the spring/summer of '07, as soon as the basement is in.  I will take plenty of pic's and keep a journal, and if anyone's interested  i will post it here.
Before i built the log home in TX, i had built a pair of pine speaker enclosures in high school, so i was a little nervous :o. This time the anticipation is just killing me! I have a lot to learn and mistakes to make, but i know it will be a great experience. I look forward to taping into the knowledge here ;).

RD
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

Raphael

  I really don't know Hud-Son mills, but if memory serves it's a decent design...  The ergonomics of some chainsaw mills can wear out the operator.
  I run an 066 on my Logosol and as long as I keep the chain sharp it'll mill hickory all day, so cedar shouldn't be a problem for the saw.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

MotorSeven

Thanks Raphael, i can breath a little easier. Yes, the Logsol, Woodbug, and Hudson all use a rolling carriage design that the operator pushes. I had actually decided on the Woodbug, but the cost + shipping + duty from Canada had the price a little high. When i found a used Hudson on Ebay i couldn't pass on the price. I have some questions on which saw to get, but i will post them in the sawmill forum.

RD 
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

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