Butternut Seedlings

[slowzuki]

Unfortunately ours have not produced any nuts this year.  I expect they will be dead by next year.  Very disappointed and wish I had kept my eye on the contractor better as he was told not to dig so close.

I can't spot any that have germinated, only ash seedlings growing below the butternuts now.

[SwampDonkey]

Are there any butternuts left down on the islands, or have the silver maples pretty much taken over? Those islands used to have tons of butternut trees as did the city. They don't live long, so they have probably almost all died out of the city streets.  And once they start they get messy dropping limbs, so they would be long gone in town. There was some on Saunders street where I lived once and the squirrels where forever busy. Might find some up along the Nashwaak in St Mary's. Up at Moody Clark's farm he had some in the pasture, but I think they dug so much loam out of the bank that the trees fell over into the river. I was just eyeing one of my older seedlings I started for mother and it has doubled in height this year and has it's first limbs. I tell dad he'll have butternuts before he'll have apples. ;D

[slowzuki]

I haven't spent much time on the islands in the last 10 years.  Last I was there most of the trees I noticed were elm and some type of willow type thing that I don't see anywhere else but on the islands or the banks of the lower SJ river.  I wasn't really looking at trees then, only hay.

Ken

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, I think now you'll mostly find silver maples and ash out on the banks.

[rocksnstumps]

I noticed today the butternuts have started dropping in NE Wisconsin, at least on the one big old tree I have that is still hanging in there even with some canker evident. A few more on the property are still hanging in as well but may be shaded too much to produce anything. Probably 3/4 of the trees have already cashed in due to the canker so maybe I'm wasting my time, but who knows. Should be lots of opportunity this fall to get some sunny spots picked out since the ongoing salvage from Dutch Elm Disease and TSI cut has opened up quite a few areas. I guess I'll take the advice above and stomp 'em in husks and all. Is 1"- 2" a good depth?

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, sounds fine. They even germinate laying in the grass over winter and pop up by July. In other words, you don't have to work too hard at it. ;D

[rocksnstumps]

Thanks SD,

Well, went out and put a couple dozen butternut seeds in the ground and the rest of the 5 gal bucket got thrown out amongst the slash from the recent logging in a few areas. Might have to try some acorns as well if I get a chance to collect some from a friend's land about 5 miles away. They should be dropping soon as well I'm guessing. No oak on this ridge at present but I'm told the soil has a good site index for such. May as well try to jump start something besides elm and ironwood which I still have plenty of saplings around in pockets.

Did look underneath several other large butternuts still hanging in there and no seeds this year again, just like no production the last several years I've checked. Wonder why that is? They're plenty big and the crowns get some sun. Do butternuts come in male/female varieties like boxelder or do only the lower branches produce anything so they need to get sun as well?

[SwampDonkey]

Separate male and female flowers on the same tree. The male pollen looks like white birch or alder catkins hanging in spring. The female flower is red with feather-like pistols and a small ovary. There are pictures in one of these butternut threads or the "Tree Sex" thread (use the forum search).

My lawn tree has been in low production the last couple of years, I can still find about a couple gallons each fall though. Usually the flowers emerge the same time. I don't notice a preference for crown position on my lawn tree, but in most trees pollen is on lower limbs and female nut flowers are in the upper crown.

[SwampDonkey]

Butternut Flowers

[slowzuki]

As an update, my butternuts are still alive, barely.  No nut crop again this year.  About 40% foliage left in the summer.

[SwampDonkey]

I have seen some dead ones below home but none dead around here yet and we have some pretty old ones around. I have not made it out on the old farm yet, waiting for hard frost to collect some nuts. I'll see how those trees are. The little brook back there that comes down between fields is lined with butternut trees. Maybe I'll go out there this weekend.

[bandmiller2]

Are you guys growing the butternuts for the nuts or the wood.Only my humble observation but the nuts don't seem to be worth the hassle to get the meat out.I grew up with brown mouth and fingers.When a kid late after dark I hauled a big wagonload of walnuts home by seven the next morning squirrels had stolen every nut.Frank C.

[SwampDonkey]

Both Bandmiller and aesthetics, and yes they are worth every morsel to me.  Nothing you want to go into commercial production over though. ;D

[bandmiller2]

Swamper its been 50 years since I've opened one mayby I should try them again.Being kids we just smashed them with a rock to open and spit out the hull pieces.Whats the best tool to open them??A friend in Maine had a big tree over his camp I used to bring my sheridan pellet gun and lay on a blanket and pick off the red squirrels.Frank C.

[SwampDonkey]

Hammer and a brick.  ;D :D

[SwampDonkey]

Went out this morning and picked about a gallon of butternuts along the creek. There were about 25 mature trees I searched under. Not a lot of nuts this year. Most came off one big old 20 inch dbh tree. I saw many big branches that the ice broke on some trees and in a couple of the crotches were some inhabitants, coons.   ;D Only dead trees I found were runts in shade and one that bulldozing smothered the roots.




Going out to bury them after lunch.

[bandmiller2]

Swamper,if you were going to eat those butternuts [insted of hideing them for the squirrels] what would you do store them and let them age or what??I had high hopes their was a higher tech way to extract the meats than wacking with a hammer.A friend is going to give me a bucket full,says he needs a hard hat on his patio.Frank C.

[SwampDonkey]

Find a room the rodents can't get to, namely squirrels and their ilk. We put down news paper on the floor and spread them out until about December. The thin husk will wither and dry up, so you just rub that off before hitting it a crack with the hammer. Easy to rub off. We used them in fudge, I suppose brownies would taste good to.  ;D 8)

A local bakery used to call their bread Butternut Bread before the Ontario Eastern Bakeries syndicate bought them out. "This is butternut country" the TV add would say with a covered wagon being hauled by horse through the country side. ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Checked on some butternut seedlings today on the woodlot, put up some fresh winter grade ribbons to mark'm as I do. Most are chest high now (some 2 year olds are 14" or so) and the rabbits have not bothered them, which is surprising. Any of the red oak seedlings I spied where chewed last winter with new shoots off the stumps.  : Probably marked a dozen, but didn't get around to all the locations.

[SwampDonkey]

Found 3 more seedlings on the edge of the lawn and one suckered back in the lawn that my brother snipped off last summer mowing. Never thought that one would live. I guess, never under estimate the will to live. ;D

[Jeff]

Donk, there were a couple of butternut trees that grew on the old farm where by Dad was born and raised. By the time I was old enough to remember seeing them when pointed out to me, they were in pretty bad shape and have since died quite a few years ago. I am sure from blight.  They were my Dad's favorite tree and I could see the sorrow in him when we would look at those dieing trees. I bring this up because I dreamed about it last night and I dreamed you smuggled me some seedlings that we planted at the Pigroast next year.

So I'm asking, can you smuggle me some seedlings? ;D

[SwampDonkey]

What are friends for again?  :D :D :D

A couple two years old, the second one down is the one that my brother cut off mowing. The last is of a couple nuts that recently fell off, they are not mature yet this early. These trees and another one or two I found are in a nice line with the older yard trees in the back yard.

[Jeff]

I think they would do okay here, but the only gauge I have is that there is a couple walnut trees growing right up the street, even though we are probably 60-70 miles north of the typical walnut range in Michigan. The only deer we have right here in the last 27 years was Dizzy. We never used to have any Rabbit's but in the last 5 years they have become quite prolific. I would guess a rabbit would be the greatest threat to a young tree. That and our sandy gravel soil. Any tree I have planted here stands in apparent stagnant growth for the first 4 or 5 years, but them they take off and grow like crazy. My conclusion to that is they are spending most of their  available nutrients putting down roots.  A 10 inch red maple here will have a root ball 6 foot across. The Oaks however seems to go deep and not as massive a root system as the Maples.

[SwampDonkey]

Well, all you can do is try, I would mix some good potting soil in the natural soil of your ground to help out the roots of the seedlings. They are not shade tolerant so after awhile they need good light to thrive. They like soils with calcareous bedrock if it is dryer. The soils here where it grows wild is moist dark loam often shallow because of the water table so you don't get a well developed tap root just long laterals. The trees here would take anywhere in Michigan since we are further north. Ours are an isolated population away from the continuous range.

[Jeff]

The trees that were at the old farm grew on the little salt river river flats. Lots of moisture and probably lots of nutrients, but prone to frequent flooding. The flats also had ironwood, bitternut hickory, ash and sycamore. If you came up off the river flats it was a completely different forest type, predominantly oak maple, some ash and whitepine, but there was one shag bark hickory. I don't know of any hickory trees around here, and we are only about 25 miles North, however our elevation is much greater here.