The Forestry Forum

Hello,
I have been browsing these forums for quite some time now.  I must say of all the different site's I frequently read on, this has some of the most helpful and experienced members.  Thank you for that, I feel all of your advice and topics have helped me understand the pro's and con's regarding my future milling and woodworking endeavors.  I apologize in advance for the long first post, but I don't want to leave any information out so any of you with experience can understand my needs. 

To start - I have been interested in log barns, timber framing, rustic furniture, and so forth for basically my entire life.  Growing up on a farm in the Ozark Mountains (hills) with all of the old barns, rustic buildings, and so forth is to blame for my passion.  As I have become older,  I became particularly fond of Eastern Red Cedar (Juniperus Virginiana as i've seen others refer to it).  Many of you I assume are well aware of it's characteristics that many people find attractive; such as the smell, color, diversity in uses, and abundance.  And I am sure there are several of you who enjoy it as well.

I recently relocated to some property from the city and almost immediately began acquiring ERC logs.  Approximately 200 give or take, along with a few Black Walnut logs and one long Persimmon as well.  This is just my current accumulation, much more to come.  Here's the good part... I have been given the green light from my wife to purchase a sawmill  8) - but there's a catch...  My budget needs to be $2,000 or less.  :o

Now, I have done quite a bit of research and have seen several different Chainsaw/Bandsaw Portable Sawmills, DIY Plans, among others on the market by reading on this forum as well as some others.  But have yet to decide where my money would be best spent.

What I would like to know from you all is considering my primary sawing will be ERC logs; which of the portable mills should I invest in?  I will not be using the sawmill for this project alone, but plan to continue using it to aide in making furniture, small sheds/playhouses, and among other small projects with the hopes of making a small business for myself.

My first objective right away be to build a timber frame or post and beam type barn/workshop.  Then saw siding to cover it and our house.  Then on from there...  Most all of my work will be done by myself alone with the exception of a helping hand in certain situations. 

The majority of my timber is approx. 16' in length with diameters from 6" to 14" inches diameter at 8'.

My chainsaw, in case it is of any importance is only a Husqvarna 445 with 18" bar.

Thank you!
Ozarkian

Welcome to the Forum Ozarkian.  I'm may be familiar with the area you mentioned, I'm originally from Ozark County, Mo.  Can't help you with a mill recommendation in that price range but you may find something reasonable by looking at used equipment.  That's how I found mine.  When you have a chance, update your profile.  When members can see where you are from they may be able to offer more appropriate suggestions.

Tom

Welcome Ozarkian

welcome mr ozarkian.  :)

my advice to a fella in your situation is always the same:  get a bandsaw mill, not a chainsaw mill.  this is coming from a guy who was done his share of chainsaw milling and thoroughly enjoys it.  chainsaw milling is great, it's just not practical for what you want to do.  a bandsaw (or circular saw) will be far far more efficient to produce lumber for building and siding.  i would certainly keep an eye on craigslists (allofcraigs can search multiple craigslists'), forum classifieds, ebay, sawmill exchange etc and look for a used entry level mill in the 2k range.  be patient, they do come up from time to time.
good luck!

Well thank you for the quick responses, and the welcoming.  Glad to be hear! 
Mikeb: I definitely would prefer a Bandsaw mill, the only NEW one I have been able to locate is the Ripsaw - but have seen mixed reviews on that, most recommended using that along side a CSM.  I have already started eyeballing craigslist for a couple of days but have not heard of allofcraigs, thanks for that pointer!  I am trying to be patient... but don't want the wife to change her mind!!  ;D

Tom: I went ahead and updated my location in my profile, thanks!

Welcome Ozarkian,
My mill sugestion is double your budget and go ez boardwalk jr.
Used is a good option, but I havent seen any used bandsaw mills in the $2000 price range. PC

Welcome Ozarkian

As mikeb1079 said

Quote from: mikeb1079 on January 16, 2012, 09:19:34 PM
my advice to a fella in your situation is always the same:  get a bandsaw mill, not a chainsaw mill.  this is coming from a guy who was done his share of chainsaw milling.

Your profile gives no indication of your age But I was about 45 when I got the sawdust bug and started with a c'saw mill  two powerheads on a double ended bar.  Milled lots.  Now, at 70 I really appreciate my Rimu twinsaw which I have had for a while now and wish I had started out with it instead.

Ozarkian welcome. Sounds like you are in for some great fun in building a bunch of projects. Is great that your wife is supporting you in buying a mill. She may not be aware that a bandmill is a little more than the $2000. she has mentioned. Keep looking and you may run across one at that price. I havent seen any at all for that price. You may have to explain to her that you cant find one at that price and would she up your budget say to $4000. If she knew what all you can do with a bandmill she may well understand. Take her and let her see one and what it will do. I would recommend a bandsaw mill for all that you have plans for. Good luck, bg

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Ozarkian. 

I have no experience with the smaller sawmills, and as expected, a quick check did not find anything for $2,000. 

I started building a small shop using an Alaskan and a 395xp.
The timbers come out close enough using a guide board balanced on the log.

Half way through I purchased  a used lumbermate 2000.
Whilst cutting the timbers with the chain saw is do able, I would not like to cut 1inch boards for siding etc.. with it.
Its surprising how much 1x gets used up for strapping, siding, window trim, interior cladding, shelves, doors etc....


I also found I use the band saw just like another shop tool.
Yesterday, I took all my worst cupped siding boards and cut them into batons, 10 at a time on the sawmill. Much quicker than managing 16ft 1x8's on a table saw.

If I was doing it over I would buy a band saw mill and skip the Alaskan, but that's easy to say now. ;)

I would hold out for a deal such as odouls100 just found, and get a used LT15 or similar.
Spend the money once and get something that will work well for you, for a long time.

If your going to use it for any type of business venture you will save a large amount of wages with a band saw over chain sawmill.


Don't  forget log handling equipment.
I get along well with a home built log arch and 4x4 pick up.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20959/releaving_tension_003.JPG)

Hi Ozarkian, I'm pretty new here myself but, it is possible to buy a used bandmill and stay within your budget. I recently bought a woodmizer LT25 in decent shape for $1800 . It had not been run in the ground but had been in the weather for a while. It will handle a 16 foot log but is all manual. You may have to dig a little deeper, look in your local classified ads, the state farmers bulletin, etc. I found mine in one of those for sale bulletins that are by the register in convience stores. Steve m

It is going to tough to get a band mill for that price.  Realistically, you need to increase your budget like Paul said and get something that will do the job and not kill you doing it.

Welcome aboard...How handy are you when it comes to welding and fabricating? $2K can get you alot of mill if you're willing to build it. Many here have built their own mills and produce alot of fine lumber with them. If you have to buy, you're in a bit of a pickle. Any mill selling for $2K is probably not worth buying, especially with the amount of lumber you plan to cut. Maybe you can find a deal like Smanning did, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Run the #s on all the things you plan to build and what the lumber would cost if had to buy it all. The savings would be significantly more than 2K. Perhaps you can explain to your wife that you guys might be $$ ahead by just spending the 4-5k up front. Maybe she would be willing help you research what mill would work best for you guys. The more she is involved in the process, the more likely she will appreciate the wisdom of buying the best mill you two can reasonably afford.

Welcome
You anywhere near the Grist mills in Ozarks ?? Great x2 grandfather Alva Hodgson built Dawt and Hodgson mills Bandsaws seem to be the easiest route to go Love my circle mill but setting one up to work takes lots of time and fab work

There was a recent post a member that had picked a LT15 of in good condition for $3,000 I think.  That's a useful mill for a part time hobby sort of thing, especially with smaller logs where the lower power and manual log handling don't matter so much.

I you can pick up a deal like that you should jump on it. Otherwise you are probably looking a $4,000 for something like an EZ Boardwalk Jr with similar capabilities. All new, shiny and ready to saw.  :)

Or else you are in the DIY / Fixer upper area. Can still be done. A home built mill with a lawn tractor engine and trailer tyres for band wheels can be set up to cut pretty well and wont bust the budget if you have a source of cheap parts and some DIY skills

Ian

I second Paul, I purchased the boardwalk Jr and have been very pleased with it. Everything from cedar to bodark, not a problem.

Wow, ya'll are exceeding my expectations with the feedback! 
I am starting to agree that my budget will most likely need to be increased, but I will be posting some wanted ad's proposing my current "allowance"...  Who knows, I may get lucky as Steve M. did!  That's awesome you picked up the LT25 for that price, how's it been working out for ya so far?  Any pictures you would like to share?

Losttheplot, that picture looks great.  Very nice building you have there!  My log handling equipment so far has also consisted of my 4x4, tow straps, chains, rope, 4 wheeler, and a cant hook. 

Thanks for the welcome Magicman, thus far I haven't been able to find anything either.  But I will keep looking and gathering logs, when my wife gets tired of seeing so many stacking up she may just up my budget!!  Better start felling some tree's eh? :)

Bill, I am very excited to begin my projects.  I can't wait to get my children involved in creating ideas and giving them little projects of their own.   They are a bit young to work a sawmill yet...  Being the oldest is 6 then a 5 year old and a 11 month.   
I read something on a thread off of another website that somebody had written, it was in regards to I believe his "favorite tool".  He was speaking about his wife and her support, I found it to be very well written and I would like to share it.  I had copied it to show my wife, but failed to save the authors name so unfortunately I am unable to give him the credit deserved.  It was on a log home forum: 
"My favorite tool... The Spouse. If you have a spouse, your success or failure in your venture depends on her. A spouse who shares your vision is your most valuable asset. If you are not 100% on the same page, the stresses involved in this type of commitment can work their way into the fabric of a relationship and begin chewing at the threads that form the most important bond in life."

Ernie, I am 27 years old.  I did not notice a field in the profile section to indicate age, it may had been the birthday section?  I reckon I will go through and update my profile a bit more tomorrow.  I plan to stick around for a while, so guess it be best to make myself comfortable! Now in regards to the "Rimu Twinsaw", I don't believe I've heard of that type before.  I will have to look it up, I don't mind the labor much now and actually enjoy the pain and sweat (may be my ADHD :) 8) ), but I won't be disappointed with a manual bandsaw... still requires some grunt work right? ???

Paul, I had never heard of the EZ Boardwalk Jr. prior to your post, after a quick Google search...  It appears to be almost exactly what I had in mind and it's locally made!  After a nice dinner, foot massage, and some smooth talking (lots of alcohol 8)) my Wife might just agree to let me buy one of those!...  Hey, it's worked before - she married me! ;)

Hackberry, yea the boardwalk is looking mighty tempting.  Have any pics of ya using it?  What are the pro's and con's you've discovered since you purchased it?  And how long have ya had it?

Ianab, I have thought little about actually building my own due to lack of actual welding and mechanical experience.  BUT, usually once I really put my mind into something I  :P research alot and tend to pull it off.  That and my neighbor has a HUGE welding shop, I approached him and asked if he'd be interesting in putting together a mill for me...  nope.  However, if I did most the work and paid him to weld a couple of spots... could be a whole 'nother store.  I'll look into it a bit more.

Captain, I can't say I am familiar with Grist Mills to be honest.  I am near Branson, Mo. close to the Arkansas border.  Circle mills would be nice, but I haven't seen anything at all for one of those nowhere near my range!  Now I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of those Brand X style mills!

Here is another thought for you. Hire a portable mill to come in and cut up some of your logs, build and sell some furniture and such stuff. This will allow you to create some income from your logs and thus increase your budget.
P.S. Welcome to the forum.

Great Idea CustomSawyer, however, the land we purchased has just our house on it.  No outbuildings, or workshops.  So the mill will be for building my Barn/Workshop THEN I can start the furniture and other projects.  I am fairly confident we'll be able to swing the $$$ once I show her some of the video's and reviews for the EZ Boardwalk JR., they sell themselves. 
I actually have considered and even spoke with a couple of very nice sawyers locally about coming to saw up some of the lumber, may still do so, just not quite as much as originally anticipated.

Yeah, the DIY approach sort of needs a workshop and welder. By the time you get all that set up, may as well buy a basic mill.

You wont regret spending a few more $$ on a decent manual sawmill. Beams, boards, woodworking materials...

Ian

Gday

First off Welcome to The Forum Ozarkian theres no mistakin where you come from Mate  ;) ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)

With the sawmill there are some good mills out there  and it sounds like you have access to plenty of wood and plenty of need for a mill a Barn/Workshop and Wanting to get into building furniture and selling abit of lumber  ;) if you are worried about stretching the personal budget it might pay to look into the LT15 and putting the $1000 down on it and paying off the rest at about $250 a month on WM finance  ;) by My reckoning ( thats a picnic table or garden bench every month to make the payment ;) ) and you would still have $1k in the bank to cover any tight months  ;) Just a thought what Jake said is a good Idea as thats what I am in the process of doing now as Im sawing a fair bit on the Lucas atm trying to get cash together to start getting things set up for Jesi Mexi and I when I get home on the 13th off feb for a while  I got a fair bit off stuff to build Myself so far We will be needing 10 to 15000bft just for the additions to the home fort  :) :) ;) :D :D ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8)

Regards Chris

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, smanning.  How about an intro from you and an update on that LT25.  Also, pictures would be nice.   :)

We Like Pics  ;) ;D  smiley_paparazzi;D 8)

Get the little ones involved at a young age,even though it will slow you down and have to watch them ALL the time. When they get older they will be able to help and be glad to. Take your time with the sawmill,something might come up. Read on here,ask questions. There's alot to sawing and that's not even the working part with a manual mill.

There are a lot of photos of the mill in operation in my photo gallery. The biggest con was the speed, however I have since put a 20hp Honda engine on it that I found on cl and it cuts much faster. For $4k you can't expect a full blown production machine. The pros of the machine come out everytime I have ran it. It cuts log after log and has never had a breakdown. Just keep a Sharp band on it and keep it lubricated and she should last a very long time. It's a very heavy well built machine.

WelcOme Ozarkian and manning. I have a CSM. Have worked around handset circle mills, would like a swing blade, and will prolly eventually build one. I may build a bandmill. IF you consider a CSM you will end up spending your $2000 between a mill large power head bar and chains and other needed accessories. You will be much happier with a thin kerf bandmill, as your lumber recovery is way better, and milling speed is off the charts compared to the CSM

I'd recommend looking at bandmill options. But keep in mind you are working in TONNAGE. A typical log may weigh from several hundred pounds to several thousand.

Starting off a walk by/hand pushed band saw may be your best bet. Why? Because bands cost about $20 each and resharp services are half that including shipping. Working with residential timber you WILL cut nails, and a single nail is reason for a blade change.

Take some time to evaluate your local market after starting to saw, you may find you are in need of portability as it's often easier to move the saw to the timber than the timber to the saw.

I could go on for another 500 word essay but won't, but be aware that soon you will need to budget for a cover for your saw, or a material handling option such as a forklift/loader or even a truck to handle sawdust, logs, or slab.


As always your invited to spend a few days with me at my mill for a free lesson in sawmilling!


Eric

Welcome!
  I was in the middle of building my own bandsaw mill when I found a guy that needed a deck on his house that he was willing to trade for.  I've got 300$ in labor (my employees and I did the deck in a day), another $200 in building a track for the mill.  I now have a small bandmill for cheap.  It took me some time to find a deal like that, but they are out there.  Don't give up.  When this mill makes me enough money, there is an lt40 in my future.
  good luck.  when you find that diamond in the rough, it'll make it that much more special to you.

I am talking with some welder/fabricators in my area and am going to price out getting one built.  Hopefully it'll be less than $3,000.00 including labor!  Anybody know of any great plans they suggest? 

Feltze, I am pretty set as to sawing primarily Eastern Red Cedar, and have yet to cut a log that I believe would require a forklift after cutting into 8-10 lengths.  Also, most all of the timber I am cutting is coming from my parent's land that's been in the family for over 150 years.  I am familiar where most the fence lines have been and still are.  However, stray bullets from target practice and so forth could dull a blade quick I bet!

Bullets are not that bad as they are soft lead. The ones with a metal jacket can cause a problem from time to time. Sometimes I will hit a bullet and not even know it till later when stacking the lumber.

hey ozarkian
welcome to the site , its a great site lots of info and helpful folks. im new too
i am building a mill , ole social security dont pay much lol

I bet some sawyers have found old lead balls from the civil war when cutting into the big old trees. That be cool... As long as blade isn't damaged!
How's the build coming along? What plans are you following, and estimated cost to build?

Linn Lumber out here in ORE sells piece parts, kits or the whole mill.  Some guys have gone that route, and have been able to build a manual band mill plus it cuts down on fabrication time.  I am sure there are others, There are plans available for little $$.  if you are wanting to research the build your own route, I would use the forum search and read through threads on it.  Check out the Iron Inventory thread on this forum as well.  There are a lot of guys who have posted info on their builds there.

Well I guess the name of the game is patience...for me not having a shop, sure eats at my patience, especially when winter hits around here.

Wait long enough the right deal will come along

I bet if you start building a mill, you will be mid way down that road and good deal on a mill will come up... :)

Lease wise that is my luck anyhow.

I think most guys who build their own mill, usually have a shop at their disposal, and have been collecting parts for a while...so when it comes time to build it might not appear to be as costly as buying outright, but I bet it all adds up.

I bought a homemade mill, with a wisconsin S14d on it, 4 post design and a 24' deck...it cuts nice, all manual though, and it cost me 1500.00...and I had/have to do tons of tweaking on it, as I plan to do a bit of mobile milling this spring.

Usual stuff eh...if you have the time, you probably don't have the money, or if you have the money you likely don't have the time :)



No expert here just my .02

Building the saw definitely would be very rewarding, and I would get hands on knowledge inside and out about the mill I would be working with.

I did mention that "I" personally do not have a shop, however, my awesome neighbor owns a full welding and fabrication shop next door, he manufactured and works on Dune Buggy's and other stuff - extremely nice and smart guy. 

He already made it clear that he personally wouldn't want to take on the project, which is understandable.  He is nearing retirement. But I approached him today about possibly hiring out one of his skilled workers to help.  He agreed to take a look some pictures and plans tomorrow, and will talk to his guy for me.  We're gonna see if he thinks it would be financially worth my while to build one.  Fortunately I have a brother in law and some friends who are welders that would probably help for some pizza and beer 8)!  they don't have as nice a shop as he does though... :-\ 

I don't want to be one of those "annoying" neighbors, so I guess I'll get the wife to bake him some cookies or a pie for giving his advice! Who knows after he see's the plans and knows what I am going to be doing with it...  he may want some lumber sawn!  ;D  He may want me to saw some boards to put a privacy fence between us if I keep harassing him!  :)

 After a nice dinner, foot massage, and some smooth talking (lots of alcohol 8)) my Wife might just agree to let me buy one of those!...  Hey, it's worked before - she married me! ;)

Quote


;D..He's gonna fit right in around here dont ya'll think?   :D

     Not to discourage you, but, you could do like I did.  I bought an old handset circle mill which was basically a set of metal parts.  And I split the cost with a buddy, so my share of the mill originally was only $500.  Well, several thousands of dollars later, not to mention the time spent on the mill itself and support equipement.  My wife basically insisted that I stop putting money into that old mill and buy one that worked.  We bought an EZ-Boardwalk 40 and I have been very happy with it. 

So my mind has been going non-stop today!  I posted Wanted ad's in several different city's and have increased my price to $3,000.00.  I don't think it will matter how much sucking up I do, nor how many blenders of margarita's I make, my wife is very set on that price.  Which is fine with me right now.  I am waiting for some responses, hopefully I get a couple of offers that are good.  Otherwise, to the scrapyard I go...  I'll give it a couple/few weeks of checking online before I decide to build, I am ready to start cutting now though!

I have seen a couple of cheap models, one for example is from Harbor Freight.  It seems like a decent setup but the motor is a bit small in my opinion.  How hard do ya'll think it would be to buy a cheap model and put a little bit bigger motor on it?  Of course, that is considering I could come across a good cheap 13 hp+ motor...

Not discouraged at all Carpenter, thank you for the feedback.  I am essentially considering all options in my budget, we don't have the finances available to exceed $3,000.00.  I have 3 kids, one is still a baby, and a very beautiful wife to spoil.  I know I will be able to make it work (somehow) within my budget.  It may take some time and patience, but I am confident I will make it work.  And many pages later on this topic, you'll see some pictures of beautiful cut eastern red cedar, walnut, and persimmon boards!  Then, shortly after I can upload some of the projects I have planned.   ;D

Please, keep the comments coming!  I like hearing advice, it makes me feel better suited to make a well informed decision.  :P

Three grand...lt 10 new from the factory....and ypu are cutting lumber instead of messing with someone else's junk.

In the terms my wife laid down, you simply are not buying an lt10, it is too small, and you will outgrow it! You are getting a fifteen.

I love it when she is right.

Great Minds Think Alike Zopi  :) :) :D :D;):):) Well Young Ty has a lt10 and he has put some pretty fair size logs though it  :o ;) :D :D ;D ;D 8)

With HP You will notice it with hp but it dont mean you cant cut a good ole whacka timber per day on them My first band when I was 15yo was a Jonsered 6000+ Bansaw mill with a 2095 Chainsaw as the power unit they where rated at like 7 hp and I cut a power off timber on it untill some usless  smiley_furious so n so stole the head unit when i was about 21yo  :o :o you will be suprprised just how much you can get done if you put some planing into  it and are organised Mate  ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris

You seem to be in a rush and wanting it to happen...now.  Slow down.  The right sawmill will become available and at your now increased budget.  Remember that you will still have some startup cost.

I would be very wary of getting a sawmill brand other than the builders/suppliers listed on the left.  They are all top of the line and proven machines.  The very last thing that you need is a lesser quality sawmill.   :-\

A bandsaw mill can and have been built,but if paying someone else a good hourly amount is different. I could not afford to have one built by someone else that have never done it before. Nor could I build one,even though I have one to look at. There's ALOT to getting things straight up and down and side to side.

To make money with a sawmill there are 3 things to balance.
1st log supply, you seem to have that covered for now.
2nd  mill and needed equipment, canthook, chainsaws, fixit tools, place to keep inventory, stickers, place to put sawdust, slabs, place to store logs etc
This you are working on.
3d  Marketing and sales.  This is where you will make the profit to expand your business.  While you are figuring out the sawmill part, it would be a good time to find some markets. Where are the markets for the products you want to make.  See what they pay, how much they can use over what period of time.   Who are your competitors and what do they get for their wood. 
All 3 are important, but 3 is where you make your money.

You are making a capital investment.  An investment that will make a return by using it whether supplying your own material or selling material.  You are in a value added situation.  Know the cost of each step of your adding value.  This will also tell you where to focus your time.  The value you add must be more than the cost of adding it or in the end you will have a money pit.

Making sawdust is the easy part. Osarkian, have fun on this great adventure.

I ,like carpenter, started out with a circle mill. I actually had 2 of them at the same time. I learned that they can be very dangerous. The same can be said for some of the homemade bandmills I have seen on youtube. Running without guards and the blade breaks is funny to some of them, but what if a child was standing there? Many who have built their own bandmills who come here and post pics get this advise from forumites, ''Put some guards on that''. Those things can keep someone from getting hurt.
I said that to say this, If you build your own mill ,put some sheilds on it. Most folks seem to be in a big hurry to get it in the wood, but man with no shields they are dangerous.
IMHO, If you take the time to build one right, and put all the time and effort into getting it to cut straight and true, It will cost you more money than what you can buy one for. PC

Ya'll are very smart individuals, and I appreciate all of the very much needed advice.  In regards to being in a rush...  I will admit I am fairly excited and eager to get up and running.  However, I am also naturally somewhat of a cautious person.  I have run a few small businesses in the past prior to my current occupation working in the corporate world.  Which is the reason I have come here to gain some priceless insight and information from each and every on of you.  You all have obviously been in the business for some time and I respect your generosity of mind. 
With that being said, I will definitely NOT commit to any purchase or begin any building until I have run it by here to get ya'll's feedback  pc_smiley.  I have funds available, but really prefer to wait for my tax returns to be completed (beginning of February) first.  So, even then, unless I am 100% confident that the purchase I am making is the "right" purchase and the most bang for my buck I will hold on to my hard earned money... regardless how anxious I am to start making some sawdust.  I will just use my chainsaw and chop down cut_tree splitwood_smiley a few more tree's to add to my stockpile.  That'll nip the sawdust bug in the butt for the time being!

Ozarkian, I would add to this list of does and donts. I built my own mill. It took me about 3 months to complete. I am retired and its for home projects. Building one needs some special attention as to getting everything right which can be done. My mill cuts perfect for me and I am glad that I built it. It has given me a complete understanding of how everything works and why. If I were you and you have the money at lest most of what a mill could be bought for, I would buy one that has been built and tried by alot of sawyers. You could go and see anyone of the F/F members mill cut and see first hand what you are getting. They can tell you there weakness and strenghts. Plus gain some first hand experience. You will also have a company that can supply any part that needs replaced and advice on your mill. I say buy used or new and you can be assured that you will be making sawdust the same day. Good luck, bg

Quote from: Bill Gaiche on January 18, 2012, 10:50:14 AM
Ozarkian, I say buy used or new and you can be assured that you will be making sawdust the same day. Good luck, bg

Good points Bill!

Ozarkian,I would suggest you keep your eyes open for a used mill.

Many of us on the Forum run mills that we bought used!

If you buy used, you could be saving as much as half, over the cost of a new mill.

I strongly desire a good used mill for the fact buying used does save quite a chunk of change. Also, unless it needs some work I can begin cutting same day. 
Building one, to be honest, most likely will not happen. UNLESS  one of the welder fabricators that I live by and grew up with can guarantee a very well built solid structure within my budget and a reasonable timeframe.  I know a few out here in the Ozarks who have solid workshops in their backyard - along with piles of scrap metal, riding lawn mowers, experience,  and equipment to tackle such a project with minimal new materials investing. 
Cost of labor is my biggest concern.  I have little concern of their ability to construct a mill that will perform as good if not better than buying a new/used mill from the name brand manufacturers.
I feel good about taking small steps towards my goals.  Can't wait to feel that sense of accomplishment building stuff from trees I cut down and sawed into lumber myself. 
My son was watching me watch a video on YouTube of somebody demonstrating their mill cut boards, he is 5 years old. He said, "Dad, when I grow up like you I want to do that.". It made me proud and I want to make that dream come true for him.

The problem with building things from parts laying around is visual quality and finding a replacement once it goes out. If you want to see an EZ Boardwalk Jr. run, just let me know and I'll send you my address and phone number via pm. Everything on the mill can probably be bought at a local store except maybe the bandwheels. I just recently got mine out of my shop and into the home it cut itself, (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25938/mill_in_shed.jpg) I didn't buy a single board.

That's very impressive Jake, I would love to meet and take your mill for a test drive. But unless I were coming up to buy one the trip wouldn't be feasible financially considering the distance. 
I appreciate the offer, it'd be nice to show my wife a working mill INSIDE a building it produced the lumber for. That's a *DanG sweet selling point there!

Well, so far I have yet to find anything used for $3,000.00 or less...  Several CL ad's and even a post here on The Forestry Forum under "Wanted", not a single bite...  If I did happen to pick up a Wood-Mizer LT10 with 7hp motor, how hard would it be to swap out a bigger size motor in it?  Has anybody attempted this? If so, how did it go? 
Also, how would you reckon the Logosol M7 would handle my needs?  I seen a video where some guy rigged his with a hydraulic guide system to push it down the rail.  Looked pretty sweet.

I'd venture to say that building your own mill is as big a risk if not more than buying an operational used or new saw.

Because as you are learning to handle the sawmill and logs you really don't need to be dealing with oversights in alignment or fitting on a hand made mill. Resultant wavy cuts or miscut lumber would be very frustrating unless you are comfortable with and good at troubleshooting.   A few thousanths off in alignment could be a most frustrating issue with cut quality. 

I wouldn't be hesitant to buy an older band mill or circle mill and put it in operation. Parts and advice are available from all the major manufactures and on old circle mills you can still get any of the parts repaired or locally built. Heck if you see a defunct old sawmill setting in a farmers field it could be the right one for you, some WD40 and TLC and you could be off and running.

Personally I rebuilt an old Sears Robuck / Belsaw from scratch over a 12 month period of alignments, fitting, adjusting, and MOSTLY learning.... Investment only a few hundred dollars.  Business came to me and I began expanding, not always in the right direction but I did find my local market!

I still miss the old saw, now my brother has rebuilt a similar but newer model of the belsaw in NY which he enjoys sawing on.

Handling equipment MUST be budgeted for at some time as you will find you are setting on a mountain of sawdust in a circle mill and plenty of slab over a short time with either mill. You will be scooping sawdust by the truck load eventually and tons of that slab. Hand loading gets old after your first 10,000 feet of lumber.  Lumber off the mill needs to be moved to a customers truck or off to a deck to air dry for a bit as you finish your days sawmilling.   But then again, you need a saw first, you will see where you need to expand, overhead cover, truck, tractor, edger, planer.... you will find your way I'm sure.

The folks here at FF have eons of experience and multitudes of opinions, take the points apply them to yours situation, and drive ahead with what works for you! Be happy Be solvent, Be safe!!!

Eric

Gday

My first sawmill was a homemade copy of a Logosol M7 Dad built out off steel for me when I was about 12-13 yo with a 60 odd cc Husky on it and later a 371xp  it was a bloody heavy thing to move around as it was steel  ( I would buy A logosol at the price you can get them for there off baileys ;) as back then they where asking like $5000 Australian for them in 92 plus the bloody chainsaw through Stihl dealers and they are about $4 or 5 k here atm still :o :o >:( )

it  produced great lumber I had that for about 2 years and cut alot off D/fir , Spruce and Pine building lumber I use to be able to cut upto say 600 to 1000bft on a good day sawing 2xs and when I was cutting posts and large sections it did alot better than that ;):) then we built the larger bed type CSM with a 3120xp on it and I could cut even more then I got the bandmill and cut more again with wearing myself out less  ;) :D ;D ;D 8) 8) Dads Rule was each mill has to pay for the next which is a bloody good rule and it can be done easily but it takes time but if you not making it your only income  its not a bad way to go mate ;):)

Regards Chris

Just a time-sensitive comment about the LT10 price. The new, upgraded, beefier LT10 will only be available for the 2011 price through the end of the month (sometimes that is extended...but we have no word that it will be).

I know the price is a big factor in your decision, so just wanted to make sure you were aware of that. The 2012 base price will be $3,795 (who knows what occasional sale prices will be though  ??? ).

Whatever you end up getting, you'll be able to save money and even make money. Might be enough to upgrade down the road eventually!  ;D Good luck with the hunt!

Alright, so a little update this morning:
I have found a trick to searching for used mills on CL, and have seen a few decent ones out of state that may be right up my alley...  HOWEVER, I did come across this mill from Woodland Mills, model HM 126.  It seems to be a very solid, decent powered machine at a bargain ($2,899.00 +shipping) nonetheless.  8)  I watched their Youtube video's and checked out their testimonials, looks extremely promising.  So I decided to call the number on the website and I spoke with Neil just a moment ago, very nice guy, and discussed options regarding the mill; if they had a tow package to make it portable, used ones available, and if the mill comes pre-assembled.

* They used to sell a tow package to go with the mill, but not at this time (possibly in the summer), however he offered to send me a CAD by e-mail of his design for free.  Shouldn't cost much at all to get that put on.

* No used mills, he mentioned that since they started they have sold a couple hundred and not a single customer has wanted to return one.  Sounds promising!

* The mill does not come preassembled, but broken down in a crate that will require some assembly.  He said it should take no longer than 2-3 hours to put together, and they do this to cut shipping cost.  Shipping is flate rate for North America for $349.00, to be honest I wouldn't mind doing some assembly to get a better feel of the product.

I must say being able to call a company and speak with the owner/engineer of a the product would count as good service!  They are based out of Canada, not the United States.

I mentioned this forum and commented on the quality and resourcefulness of the individuals who frequent it.  I suggested they become a sponsor being how hard it was to track them down, felt it could do their business some good and I am sure there are other's on here who would like to know their options.  If the product truly is as good as the video's show, than others should know.  If I decide to get this mill, I will post pictures and video (if permitted by administrators) of a full first hand review. 

However, I have not made up my mind yet to get this model - but it is currently the #1 contender. 

I would post a link, but am not sure if that is permitted.  So instead...

Here is a list of specs copied from the manufacturers website, please pick it apart and tell me what you think:

"The sawmill is covered with a 1 year warranty against manufacturer's defect and excludes wearing parts (belts, blades & bearings). The Kohler engine is covered by a 3 year commercial warranty which is honored through any Kohler small engine dealer.

9.5 H.P Kohler gas engine
Centrifugal clutch blade engagement system
26" log diameter capability
21" throat opening between blade supports
10 ft log lengths (additional tracks available)
19" cast iron band wheels
Hand crank system to raise and lower the head with very little effort
Cam locking handles to secure the head vertically while making cuts
Water tank drip system to keep the blade lubricated while cutting
Manual push handle is adjustable not only up and down, but also side to side
Powder coated and galvanized steel finishes
"Gas and Go" easy handle throttle design

The mill is capable of cutting 26" diameter logs up to 10 ft long. Extra track sections are available in 6 ft increments. Capable of squaring cants at 21" or skimming veneers at as thin as 1/16 of an inch. The HM126 will cut within 1-3/4" of the deck ensuring that you maximize your usable board foot output.

The HM126 utilizes standard 1-1/4" x 144" Lenox harden tipped blades which are available through Woodland Mills. Blade kerf is kept to a minimum at just .042" to maximize the most amount of lumber per log.

Our mills are powered by a 9.5 H.P 4-cycle Kohler gas engine. It features a slant cylinder design, with a cast iron cylinder bore and overhead valve for easy access. The Quad-Clean? 4-stage air filtration system ensures only clean air enters the engine for maximum power and life of the engine. In addition, this engine is backed by a 3 year commercial warranty.

Attached to the engine is an industrial centrifugal clutch system which offers "gas and go" efficiency and ease.

The head of our machine rolls along rigid 2.5" x 4" "L" channel which is cross supported with heavy duty 3" x 6" rectangle channels. These cross supports ensure the weight of the log is dispersed over a large bearing surface to avoid marking the log with indentation. These heavy duty cross supports also provide additional rigidity to the track system. The track also features a simple adjustable log support to securely hold the log while milling. The track itself consists of two 6 ft sections allowing for 10 ft log lengths. Additional 6 ft tracks may be attached to accommodate logs of any length.

All major steel components feature either a powder coated or galvanized steel finish. This ensures your mill will stand up to nature's elements. We recommend covering your mill when not in use, but if you forget, it's good to know the mill will endure nature.

The head moves up and down along galvanized steel channel via a very easy to turn hand crank system. Two cam locking handles secure the head in place while making cuts.

The blade is kept lubricated by utilizing a water drip system. This prevents sap from gumming up your blade."

downloaded and read through the 28pp owners manual.  Looks like it is straight forward and ok machine.  Good hobby mill for sure.  Price seems reasonable.  I think that if you hold out for used, you will be able to get more mill for similar $$, but if you want new, and it meets your needs list, go for it.  You can always upgrade and pass this "starter" down to your son when he gets to be old enough to be like his dad ;)

the woodland looks identical to the harbor freight mill. I got one for $1700. shipped to my door last year. I just set it up this Monday. I canted one oak with it and started on a pine before it got too dark. Haven't been able to get back to it. It has a smaller motor 7hp I think. I made new rails for it so I can cut up to 19". I still need to make more log dogs, but it did a good job on what I did so far. The blade on it is not so good,but I'm in learning mode. I have the two new cooks bands to try so I will be reporting on them.I'm sure they will make a big difference. Will get pic up as soon as possible.

So for those of you who have been helping and are interested in gaining a little peak in my life, I added a bunch of photo's taken over the last couple of months.  I don't know what I am supposed to do as far as linking or posting any pictures here.  When I click on the "Attachments and other options" tab it has in RED, BOLD, CAPS LOCK "DO NOT USE THIS FACILITY FOR UPLOADING PHOTOS!"... SOOO to rather be more safe than sorry, I will wait until I am directed by an administrator or something how to upload my pics individually to the forum. 

Please feel free to check out my Gallery, I will continue to add more pics as I can!  Let me know what ya think!

Hey Hunterbuild, thanks for stopping in! And welcome to the Forestry Forum, I am new here as well.   ;D

How did you get it for so cheap?  When I priced it on their website, it is listed @ $2,500.00 and I called their service # and they gave me a discount for 20% off bringing it down to $2,000.00 + TAX + $89.00 Shipping. 
You should post a review, that mill is lacking reviews from any actual hands on customers.  There are so many individuals, myself included, who have had terrible experiences using power tools from Harbor Freight that the Bandsaw mill is initially criticized to the extreme.  However, I have also had some very good experiences with their tools at a steal of a deal.  I can't justify spending $2k on a potentially terrible product without being able to see one being used first hand in store (my local HF does not have any, nor has even seen one), or reading and viewing first hand reviews from rebel's such as yourself who pulled the trigger and purchased one.  If you review the product, it would be nice to take pictures AND video setting up and first use.  Then of course, a follow up video after breaking it in!  But, product reviews aren't for everyone and I understand if you don't. 

Once again, welcome to the Forestry Forum, this place is amazing when it comes to straight up - honest - and from my initial opinion so far, unbiased feedback from experienced individuals.  It's also nice seeing other's in similar situations as myself starting out (I don't feel so alone and helpless now!).

Ozarkian

That was 19' long. It will cut up to a 20" wide board. I will be take lots of pictures and get them up sometime this week-end.

Quote from: Ozarkian on January 19, 2012, 01:35:23 PM
So for those of you who have been helping and are interested in gaining a little peak in my life, I added a bunch of photo's taken over the last couple of months.  I don't know what I am supposed to do as far as linking or posting any pictures here.  When I click on the "Attachments and other options" tab it has in RED, BOLD, CAPS LOCK "DO NOT USE THIS FACILITY FOR UPLOADING PHOTOS!"... SOOO to rather be more safe than sorry, I will wait until I am directed by an administrator or something how to upload my pics individually to the forum. 

Please feel free to check out my Gallery, I will continue to add more pics as I can!  Let me know what ya think!

I see the pics in your gallery, and suggest you click on the "Add Gallery Image" below the posting window, rather than the "Attachments and other options" as you said you tried. Then click on "my gallery" and your pic. Once the pic opens full size, scroll down below to see the box for adding the pic to your post. Easy as 1-2-3. :)  Good on the pics. Just post the ones you are going to discuss in your threads. Then we get the commentary that explains why you posted them.

welcome hunterbuild :)

Ozarkian
Just a thought here. Have you thought about hiring a portable outfit to come out and mill your timber? I think you could learn a lot, and easily turn your lumber for a real nice profit. This  would give you the chance to see where your market is, and possibly a taller budget for a bigger mill. It may not be your mill cutting, but off bearing will really give you a great education.

Just my humble opinion, but around here ERC sells quick at a buck a board foot and more for finished furniture$!$ little kid outdoor furniture would sell real quick at the right price. I firmly believe that with a little hard work you could double or triple your budget. With that kind of budget you might be able to get something with hydraulic goodies. Again just a thought. Good luck! RMS

RockyMS, yes I have considered and even spoke with a couple of portable sawyers around here.  Cheapest was $0.35/bf, I may still use him for some work depending on when I can get the mill.  But, I wouldn't be selling any lumber to begin with.  I need to build with what I have, there is no limit to the supply here!  Thanks for the advice! 

A hand set hand push mill will definitely give you a taste of sawmilling and a method to begin to develop your sawmilling skills and determine if you have a local market worth expanding into.

Understand that you aren't making money unless the saw is in the cut so everything else that slows you down costs you money. Keeping that in mind you will be off to experience the JOY and occasionally less than joyfull moments of ripping logs into lumber.

Although they may quote 20" wide cuts and 30" diameter logs, without handling equipment and hydraulics to roll the cants, those are difficult sizes to handle on a small mill, slow and terribly heavy.

1 1/4 band blades are redily available from several suppliers throughout the U.S. so don't worry about blades, a resharpening service is what you are going to need to seek out.

Good Luck

Eric

I to be honest, starting out prefer using a push mill.  I get enough time being lazy sitting here reading these forums!  I don't see cutting any logs even over 20" happening but maybe very rarely.  I am set in using what I can handle with minimal log handling tools, and don't plan on doing any sawing but for myself and family, and possibly my neighbor(s) for free or barter purposes. 
That is a good point about the resharpening service, I guess I could start contacting some of the local blade sharpening shops and see who is experienced with band blades!  That will be great to know before I have a bunch of dull ones. 
Any suggestions on how many blades I should stock up on to begin with and where the best quality at the lowest price ones I should get?

Also, I am still interested in seeing who has used or seen the Woodland Mills HM 126.  I can't see why this model has not been spoken of here before.  As I have done comparison's this one seems to be the "Cadillac" of the entry level models under $4,000.00. 
Please, look at the specs and pictures and give me your opinions on it.  Break down the pro's and con's that you can see.  I have found only a couple of used ones in my price range, but none come with a warranty.  They may have a couple of HP larger motors, but I am willing to sacrifice the HP for the protection I think.
I still have a couple of week's before I make my final decision, so I am wanting to do as much research and gather as much feedback possible before investing my money.  $3,000.00 might not seem like much to some of you, but that is a rather significant sum of money to me and my family.   

If you choose to use WM's Resharp, just remember that they only sharpen WM blades.  It is normal to send 10 blades in a box to be resharpened.  I normally use 2 and sometimes 3 blades per day sawing and have about 40 blades in rotation.  I use their blade replacement service so my inventory remains constant.

You will not need nearly that many, especially starting out.  And yes, I understand budget constraints....big time.   ;D

"I to be honest, starting out prefer using a push mill."

I think a lot of us said this......

http://www.searchtempest.com

This link will search CL, you just put in how far away.  I see several circle mills for cheap, some guy in Fayette selling carriages and parts, and Hudson has a free shipping deal on their $2495 mill.
Good luck.

 :D Yeah...  Makes me feel better for being broke  :-[  I like that search link, that is extremely helpful!  Much better than allofcraigs that was suggested earlier, that one was okay... but now I will be using this one!  I found one listed for $3,000.00 "hudson oscar 2 30 inch diam. 20ft. long logs 16 horse briggs lots of saw blades"...  SOLD  >:(

I shall continue checking CL through the link you provided and expand the distance.  But, after letting my wife watch video's of the Woodland Mills HM126 Sawmill I don't know if she'll let me buy anything else! lol She liked watching and actually got excited.  Their video demonstation is one of the best i've seen, almost felt like we were there with them!  That, or she just may have a crush on the operator and his Canadian accent  boxingsmiley!  Either way... at least I'll get a mill.   smiley_thumbsup

Welcome to FF Ozarkian!  If you want to mill your at the right place, as you know. 

Not sure if you realize this or not, but you can call Woodmizer and some of the other sponsors and ask them if they have any mills nearby your address.  I was suprised how many woodmizer mills are within certain number of miles of my zip code.  Woodmizer will give you model number (you may need to ask, "are there any lt 10's" etc), name and phone number (or they would a year or two ago). Then just call the folks and tell them your story, most will let you go take a look yourself (some won't).  You may luck up on someone ready to get out of the mill business that is willing to sell.  And if you meet some local mill owners tell them about FF. 

Be patient,  good deals will come up.   

I built a mill with help of all the great folks on FF, I wanted to saw into as a hobby, my wife now says its an addiction ;)  profitable too. 8)

Keep thinking of what the impact on your decision might be, if you found a local sawyer for the lowest possible minimum charge, to come saw some of your nicer logs for you.  Might not have to spend more than $100-$200 to have a bunch of lumber and a new feel for your milling choices.    If you're thinking "well, I'd rather have that money towards a mill"...CAUTION....expenditures following a new mill purchase are going to come in those amounts and more.  Having a stack of lumber would channel you into "what's next", and you'd still have $2800-$2900 left to pursue whatever is coming to mind.    Also I keep thinking "there is no such thing as low budget saw milling"   :) ::) :o :o :o :-\ :-\ :-\

I called my local Woodmizer and spoke with a rep, he didn't seem very interested in helping me.  May have been side tracked IDK, or I may have just misinterpreted his lack of enthusiasm/character.  I appreciate businesses who don't pressure sales, but I also like a rep who has personality.  I may give a call back and ask about what you had mentioned, maybe I could get one of their customers to come saw my lumber for free as a "demonstation" while we're at it...  ;) And then they could sell me their LT15 for 2k...   :) ;D

A man can dream..  smiley_clown

TerrificTimbersLLC: I've always been the type (whether it is a good thing or not... idk) if I am physically and mentally capable of performing a service myself, than I'd rather do it myself. 

For example:
If I wasn't sure how to change my oil in my truck, I could go and pay an auto service tech to change my oil and watch him to learn, then maybe go buy the tools to do it myself the next time. 
-OR-
I could go online, google and read some forums on how to and what tools I will need to perform a proper oil change, and the steps involved.  Then do it myself.

Cost Comparison:
Service Tech - $30-$40.00, plus I could learn to do it myself if they "allow" me in their shop (insurance issues).
Self - $25.00 for Oil and Filter + Oil Pan + knowledge to perform oil change every 3k miles on mine and my families vehicles.  Priceless sense of accomplishment for completing it myself.

I know this is a bit of a different comparison, but in the long haul - in my opinion - similar results.  That is just how I think, I like to get hands on and do things myself if capable.  Of course from time to time I may be to busy and will pay the service tech to change my oil for convenience.  But in regards to this venture, I am not looking for convenience.  I am looking for that priceless sense of accomplishment. 

"Low Budget Saw Milling" exists, it is just a matter of opinion.  Donald Trump "may" view some of the bigger operations with the LT70 as Low Budget, but to myself, those bigger operations are Extravagant.  Depends on each individuals circumstance.  If this was a matter of putting my family on the streets and losing our home, I would pay a Sawyer - or just not build anything at all.  But, budgeted resources are available.  I plan to stretch them as far as possible.  A sawmill, should, with regular maintenance last for many years and provide a great deal of savings.  Especially one that is not financed and is paid off.

As said before, whether that be a good thing...  I don't know.  But I have my Wife's support, and I am running with it.  8)

ozarkian,  watched the hm126 vid and don't see a thing wrong with it.  maybe a longer bed is all.  al

Right, I'm suggesting that for $100-$200 you can have valuable perspective on sawmill and sawing which might change your decision about what to buy.  In addition to the lumber. For about the same price as sharpening a box of blades.

Hey, WM LT 10 is on sale $3100, ... manual .... everything, ok it's a start.

Don't forget to budget in a couple cant hooks, and a good chainsaw. (Not optional I'm afraid)

Saw blades should't run you more than $20 each, (PM me if you need a reference) As stated earlier WM provides a resharp service which is reasonable but you will need a minimum of 30 blades if your sawing daily and an absolute minimum of 20, 10 on hand and 10 in service.  So there goes $400 in your budget.

Terrifictimbers comment on "no such thing as low budget sawmilling" is right on target.  If your going to do this "low budget" consider it as a test on the market to see if it's feasible then expect to dive in heavier with bigger equipment and expence.  There has been more than one on site job that I have taken in which I figured I had more invested in sawmill and support than the fellow and his house...  consider a $30k truck, $30k Saw $10k Edger, 2 $700 chainsaws and that dosn't count other support equipment parked in my saw yard. (Ileft out several hundred dollars in sawblades, an extra tool box and fuel.

If your not going mobile, an old circle mill is a great start, forgiving and demanding all at the same time. But available in most states in conditions from scrap to fully renovated.

eric

I got a reply from ad on CL! Was offered the following:
EZ BOARDWALK JR.
BAND SHARPENER
5 BLADES
DELTA 15" PLANER
DELTA 10" TABLE SAW UNISAW 52" TABLE 3HP 220 VOLT ,
DELTA VERSA-FEEDER 2 SPEED THAT WAS USED WITH TABLE SAW RIP BOARDS
HITACHI 10" SLIDE COMPOUND SAW WITH STAND USED TO CUT BOARDS.

For the GRAND TOTAL of... ???

What would you pay??? All tools were offered as group, and I could use them...  The individual said they were in good condition and well maintained.

Offer Him $3 grand Cash  :)  smiley_thumbsup Just make sure its all got a clear title and he owns em ;)

yes a mill can be built for less than 400 bucks  i built one thats how i know ,it takes about a month of searching for wheels,engine,steel ,material ,at the price you want to pay welding,design,and info from ff if you dont have 8-10 hours a day to work on it it could take   ???well years or may never get done ,,,..my mill can cut up to 18 ft long and 36"dia powered by one of the best engines ever made wisconsin thd twin cylinder ,the saw is fully powered up-down sawhead and power travel ....and i built it on a trailer so i can move it to the shade or to a sunny spot ...if i were you i would keep looking for a deal on a used saw   or buy a linn lumber mate saw head for 12 bills and go from that

Meadows, I would not insult the man by offering $3,000 for all that! He sent pics and it is a great setup, seems to be most heavy duty name brand equipment.
I could definitely use it... But I'd hate to pay more than its worth or rip him off.  Sounds like a nice guy and he is gonna send more photos and even some pictures of the stuff he's done with (he bought it for almost same reason I am, Cedar).
He did say he has manuals and etc, he just hasn't been using it and wants to make room for something else.
Doing a quick search online for some used tools show most of these to be worth $500 or more a piece, used!
What would be the most I should pay? He does not have them listed anywhere, he just seen my ad and contacted me.

Just because he offered everything as a group, should not be a reason for you to have to buy them as a group.  You advertised looking for a sawmill, not more stuff.  Sure, you could use them all, but does that now make it a need for you?  Priorities, and no one can answer that but you.

Ozarkian,

Maybe horse trade and/or split up the package. See if he will cut-out the sawmill and sell just that.
It can't hurt to ask and you don't have to offer any cash at that point in time.

good luck
DGDrls

Another important thing to consider is resale value when you are done with it, available parts and service.  That is where Woodmizer shines.    I have done alot of metal fabricating and my dad is a retired machinist with a lathe in his garage so we built a home made LT 25 clone with a beefed up 24HP honda engine.  It is a great mill that is heavy duty and can take lots of miles.   It has worked well but when I upgrade (would like hydraulics one day) I expecting to sell maybe for $3k where as a real WM would sell for $4k easily.     Food for thought.   Be sure to research the parts issue though because its not if you will need them but when.     

Ozarkkian, I post the first review on the HP band saw. Look at The $1700 band saw post

Thanks!  I checked it out and am not set to be notified of new posts, thanks for taking the time to write the review.  Can't wait to see more.  Currently priced @ $2k with the 20% of coupon + shipping. 

Still leaning towards the Woodland Mills if I buy new though...  Hard to beat calling the number to and speaking with owner/engineer of the mill your interested in, and he's actually a really nice guy...  Where as with the Harbor Freight # I called the lady I spoke to made me repeat my name like 209847894 times before she asked what I was calling for.  Language barrier..  >:(  Made me want to punch myself in the face. smiley_furious3  But after that, she offered me the 20% off...  So I went from  smiley_annoyed01 to just  :-\.  I'm a talker...  Gotta be able to communicate about a product to know what your getting.

Another offer, I am glad I have been being patient... 

LT-10 with the 10hp motor and an extension.  I believe he said 6 blades come with it?  I may be wrong.  Wants $3,500.00 for it - Looks like it is in great condition, what ya guys think? ??? ???

 Offer sounds OK but you may want to consider the new upgraded LT10. I think
the improvements would mean a lot and if you act before end of month you can get
2011 price. $3495.00 with 10HP engine. Of course there is taxes but possible no shipping if you could pick up in MO.
    Here it is if the link works;


http://www.woodmizer.com/configurator/model.aspx?item=LT10&engine=G10&id=LT10

Link to udated video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY7IdoIJsp0&annotation_id=annotation_812290&feature=iv




_________________________--
sling_shot

Oh, wow...  I didn't realize the special was that low for the 10hp.  I will consider, thanks for pointing out slingshot.

Most of the time Woodmizer sets you up with blades with a mill purchase. At least that was my experience and I heard it from others too.

Like how many blades?  That would be a good selling point. 

I just watched the video you linked, I can't lie...  I am definitely interested, where as before I was just  ::).  I filled out a form for a quote, it asked "I would buy this Wood-Mizer sawmill TODAY if you would only...", my reply was "Match the price of the "Woodland Mills HM 126" for $2,899.00."

Let's see if they will!! lol...  :D  That'd be pretty sweet!

Just got an e-mail for a quote right away:

My current comparison if buying Brand New:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/28604/woodlandmillscost.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/28604/woodmizerprice.jpg)

Both Saw's do "technically" the same thing if we do not split hairs. Both include order of blades. Their spec's are very similar, yet...



Woodmizer total cost is $4,044.60 NOT including shipping! And it is on sale...

Woodland Mill's total cost is $3,473.00 shipping INCLUDED.  Not on sale, that is their normal price. 

Is 0.5 H.P. worth $600.00+ more?...

Both are fantastic machines I won't deny it.  Just doesn't make sense.

Ozarkian,

First of all, let me say I don't own a mill. You say the price differential between the Woodmizer and the Woodlands mills "don't make sense." I believe it does make sense. The Woodmizer brand has a well established reputation in the world of small bandmills. Their name means something specific to the buying public and that reputation for high quality product and excellent customer service is what enables them to ask for more money for what may be the functional equivalent of a competitors mill.

In the long run you have to decide for yourself if the value of their reputation is worth the difference. In all likelyhood the Woodlands is a good mill and a good value for the price. You have to decide which is right for you.

Good luck with your decision and your mill.

Herb

One of the things you have to look at is how likely you are to up grade later. If there is even a small chance that you may want to sell this mill later than go with WM. If you are certain that you will not sell this mill than maybe look at the Woodlands mill. Now remember I have 2 LT70s right now so I might be a little bit bias but the resale value of the WM will more than cover the difference in up front cost.

You guys make a valid point.  WM's are known for their resale value - that is a fact.  The Woodland Mills, are not as known so that comparison is a bit on the grey side. 

I assume I will eventually upgrade at a later day as long as everything works out according to plan, but I would probably custom upgrade the mill I purchase (i.e. install bigger motor, add hydraulics, tow package). 

I am glad I chose to participate in this forum, you guys shed light on things I most likely would overlook. 

I am becoming quite addicted to the FF, my wife may rally an intervention if I keep it up!  ;D

Ozarkian I have read every post on this article. I believe that you have asked some very valid questions and have recieved equally very good answers. I believe that you will benefit more than you realize by going with the LT10. I built my mill based on the LT10 and the LT15. I looked at both mills several times in order to come up with one that would work for me. I used the wheels and band guide roller assembly from the LT15 and used the LT10 design for my own design. Both of these mills are well built. Am I biased in anyway, yes. Why, because Woodmizer knew that I was building my own and was willing to help me in anyway they could to provide me with all the parts that I needed to build my mill. Will other companys do that ,I dont know. But I do know that Woodmizer made it possible to have my own mill. Funny thing is that when I went up and talked to Will at Woodmizer near Mt Vernon, Mo about bandmills I didnt know squat about one. I thought I would buy a bandsaw blade to take home with me for a pattern and some insight on how to build a mill. When I tried to pay Will for the blade he would not accept any money. Ok now I have a Free bandsaw blade and no mill. What am I to do now. Well its obvious, I had to build a mill and am I glad I did, you bet. Good luck in your decision, bg

Quote from: Ozarkian on January 22, 2012, 01:41:46 PM
I am becoming quite addicted to the FF, my wife may rally an intervention if I keep it up!  ;D

Yes I have been asked before if I have done anything yet today.   ::) ::)  If there were a WM sawmilling video game where one could pick the sawmill model , logs, duds, drinks, possibly sawdust aromas, etc etc, combined with FF,  one could just skip over ordering the mill or going outside for that matter.

Ozarky, when I bought my first LT-40 Woodmizer sent me home with a box of blades to get started with. I was watching my pennies and it meant a great deal to me.

I am going to talk to a sales rep at Woodmizer today. 

I am going to inquire about:
1).  Will I need to pay sales tax or I am qualified for the tax exempt exception?
2).  How many blades will come with the purchase.

Yes, I know that is a short list!  But most all of my answers have already been answered by you all!!!  I started thinking, if I am tax exempt on the purchase, that will lower the price by $264.60.  If they also include a box of blades I would save $285.00.  Bringing my total down to... $3,495.00 for a brand new LT-10 with a 10hp motor.   ;D

Now if I can get that price on the Woodmizer, than my decision would be between:

A).  Used 1 year EZ Boardwalk Jr. w/ 13hp motor, 12 blades, and the used band-saw blade sharpener sold by EZ ($375.00 new).   -  $3,500.00 was his price, I will offer $3,000.00 and hopefully he'll accept. I also have option to buy the remainder of his used woodworking tools for a total of $5,000.00 including the sawmill.
OR
B).  Brand New Woodmizer LT-10 w/ 10hp motor.

Decisions... Decisions...  ???

I would go and see both the lt10 and boardwalk Jr in action before deciding. That's what I did. The choice was clear to me when I saw the construction methods used on each mill. I tried to look up the weight on the Jr but couldn't find anything, but when they say "more saw for less money" I'd be willing to say they are correct. The jr is built very heavy duty. And you get 3 more HP.

 8) CONGRATULATIONS HACKBERRY JAKE! 8) You were the 100th reply to my first topic here at FF! You won a brand new ***(this reply has been interrupted to bring you a very important message...)***
Cont'd- So tell us Jake, how does it feel? I wish I had one of those!

;D

 
  Ozarkian, if you have access to a computer, check out Sawmill Exchange, there is a used Kasco 111 manual mill in your price range. There appears to be some repairs needed on this mill so the price could probably be negotiated. A friend of mine has one of these mills and after he got all the bugs worked out of his mill it cuts good lumber and Kasco has pretty good customer service.

 laugh_at

Quote from: Fly Fisher on January 26, 2012, 09:28:24 AM
if you have access to a computer,

This made me laugh a little...  We are on a forum!!!  Yes, I am on a computer.  I even check from my iPhone as well!  The Kasco does appear to be a potentially good buy, but I am very happy with the offer I have received (see my next topic I started, https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,55743.0.html).  I have checked out that website frequently, as well as sawmill trader.  I finally received this offer, by posting a Wanted ad on Craigslist in my area, as well as the surrounding areas. 

Could be a great purchase for somebody, but I have already agree'd to buy this lot.

Thanks for the heads up Fly Fisher!
-Ozarkian

I got access to a computer but my computer access aint that crash hot  :-\ :) ;) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

That would be a good way to go for someone who is handy and as you said Kasco's have been around awhile and do a good job from what I hear ;):)

Ozarkian you got a dang good deal on all that gear your basicly set up with a full blown woodworking setup for a fraction of what it would cost Mate ;):):)

 
               Glad you caught the computer humor, didn't know if you looked at Sawmill Exchange but I see you found a better deal going through Craigs list.Congratulations on your find.

Gday

Fly I forgot to say Welcome to The Forum  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) Where abouts are you from and what do you do Mate ???

Regards Chris

I have been cruising this forum for a week or so and this is my first comment on anything but just wanted to say keep watching craigslist and want adds. I have been looking for a mill for a year or so, but also couldnt afford a new mill or anything I was finding online. I was picked up a free want ad paper called ozark trader and found an ad that just said it was a mill that needed a little work and had been sitting a few years. So I called and it was a boardwalk mill built in Ash Flat, AR and it needed two pillow bearings and the shaft for the one of the band wheels. It has a 16hp twin cyl briggs that runs great. I talked him down to $1600 and all I had to do is replace the tires that were dry rotted and pulled it home. It cost me about $60 to fix the mill and it works perfect!! It was built well and I dont think I could have bought the steel for the bed for what I gave for it let alone the engine and band wells. So even though I am very new to this I know there are deals to be found. I will post pics in few days.

Welcome broylesscc,
That was a deal on a mill. Is it an ez boardwalk mill made by Edward Zimmerman? I am excited for you anyway, but you know what they say, No pics?it didn't happen. PC

 8)

Broylesllc: Well welcome to the Forestry Forum!  And congratulations on your score! That is awesome, can't wait to see some pictures of the stuff you've cut with it.

I'll be making my trip down across the border to Arkansas to pick up my EZ Boardwalk JR soon!  Then all I'll need is the tow package from Mr. Zimmerman and i'll be good to go! With many pictures to follow. :)

-Ozarkian

When I talked to you on the phone yesterday I thought about offering to sell you my trailer package since my mill is now set up partially permanent, but you never know when you might need to move things so I think ill just hang onto it.

Jake: I would be more than happy to buy it off of you!  You'd be much closer and I could swing by on my way to pick it up - you'd be a lifesaver.

You may never know when you "might" need to move it, but we all know we could use some extra money ;) $$
-Ozarkian

broylescc, welcome aboard and have fun with all FF people on here. You made a good deal on your purchase. bg

Welcome to The Forum Broylescc ;):):) It wont take much sawing to get your investment back on that The 3120 Husky I brought back in about 94 for the second CSM we built cost me $3700 still cut a power off timber though  :) ;) :D ;D 8)

Broylescc,welcome to the forum. Ever been around a mill before? What's all the lumber going to be used for.

I've been reading on stickering a little bit, and am curious where to get a bunch of them starting out that are already dried?

I don't have my equipment yet, so I can't cut some to begin drying.  Any suggestions, or anybody near by have a bunch they wanna give/trade/sell?

Also, what is the "best" way to stack? I was thinking of getting used pallets to set on ground and leveling, then stack n stickering then put some cinder blocks or large rocks on top.

-Ozarkian

Gday

I have cut 10s of 000s of them over the years the way I usually do it is to take a whole log or two and mill it up into stickers its quicker than trying to recover them outa scrap for a start then as you are sawing more often thats when you start to pull them out of edgings where its an easy get just to top up  ;) Sticks dont need to be dry just the same or similar species  ;) just true them up with the thicknesser after the first lot you have dried with them as it will just keep them the same thickness  ;)

I take it you already know the rule with sticker spacing Mate ;) 1"@ 12" 1&½@18" and 2" and thicker at 24" spacing's if your planing on drying mostly Cedar i would go for 1&½ by 1 inch thick sticks to give you good airflow as it wll drop the moisture pretty well Mate ;):):)

Regards Chris

Thanks Chris there was those of us that were wondering on the spaceing  :P now I dont have to ask!  ;D thats what I like about this site somebody gives the info without ya askin! 8)

Gday

No Problem  ;) Thats what The Forum is here for  :) ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) I love to see blokes with Smaller mills and Alot of Ambition that are willing to have a crack I would prefer to help people like yourselves  ;) ;D ;D  8) rather than the big companies i have worked for in the past as I have sawn on everything from CSMs thorugh to 45000bft a shift carriages and tell you what I prefer working on the smaller mills :):):)

Regards Chris

I tell people to bring framing lumber or get 1x3x8's from the big box store.  But I wouldn't buy them for myself.  Start dumpster diving for 1x and 2x lumber and saw them up on the table saw.  Or when you get your mill, first thing saw up several suitable logs into stickers,   cut them 4', bundle them into packs of about 25, with nylon strapping or rope, using thin slats or cardboard between layers of 5,  and put these bundles inside in a warm dry place for a month.  Lots of things to do no?   8) 8) 8)

Ill also add stack all your timber on a good base say 6x6 or 8x8"s the length off your packs with 4x3" bearers on every second row off sticks its better to loose a little timber building a good base than loose alot off good timber through poor handling and drying ;):)

Hey guys thanks for the welcomes! I will start a thread as soon as I get home from visiting my brother and his family here in St Loius. I have a few pics here on my phone but can't seem to get them to load. As for a quick run down on myself, I own a custom cabinet shop that has been blesses enough to stay very busy during these slow times. I know several that has not been so lucky! I deal strictly with kiln dries lumber mainly the normal cherry, alder, red oak, etc. I have recently found myself building more custom rustic furniture, mantels, and headboards for fun in what little spare time I have. Recently a small furniture co has asked me to start doing some custom stuff to sale in their store and I want to start logging and sawing my own wood to pick out the wood the most "character". Again I have learned so much from this forum and can't believe after building custom cabinets for all these years, how little I really know about wood! Ive always just picked up the phone and next day had a 1000 bdft of whatever at my door! But honestly I'm gettin burnt out and need a change! But the cabinet shop pays the big bills!

broylescc welcome to the forum. This is a great place to be when you are getting started or when you have been at it awhile.

broylescc, welcome aboard. Hope you enjoy your stay. bg

Greetings, not sure if this post is still active but i was in a similar situation as yourself - looking for an entry-level sawing solution to suit my needs. As an extremely motivated DIY-er, i had a huge 200 year old red oak fall over on my property that was about 100' tall and 4' in diameter at the base of the trunk and almost no rot. After i got quotes on its removal from my arborist i decided that it was time to purchase a sawmill to make use of the unbelievable wood in this tree instead of letting it all go to waste in someones woodburner and having to pay for that to happen.

That said, i purchased a WM LT 10 for a little over a K more than you are looking to spend but it was worth every penny. With a little help from friends, enginuity and some fabrication, i made the somewhat sationary mill portable enough to tow around my property with my lawn tractor. This is WoodMizers entery level mill but its a very well built machine. I did a lot of resarch before i bought it and its construction is actually quite impressive when compared to some of the other entry level bandmills out there.

Ive easily had 30-inch 1500 lb logs on this thing and it slices through them faster than you can turn the log for another cut. Ive been producing 18 inch wide quarter-sawn boards that are just so unbelievableable beautiful. Ths machine has worked extremely well for me, and i'd recommend it to anyone looking for an entry-level sawing solution. If anyone is interested i'll be more than happy to post some pictures.

Best Regards.

I also have a Woodmizer LT10.  I wanted the LT15, but simply could not afford it.  I did, however, upgrade the engine to a 10 hp and bought a track extension and a couple of boxes of blades, 5 each.  I spent $4000 on the whole package in 2009.  Since then, the LT10 has gotten better.  Stronger pushbar and tracks.

I cut mesquite logs.  It is a very dense and hard wood.  But with a new blade on my LT10, it cuts through it like butter.  I agree too that it takes more time to turn the log than it does to cut through it.

With my setup, I can cut a log up to 18 feet long, although I never have yet.  I have a very simple setup for log handling.  I put two telephone poles in the ground and attached two 2x10's nailed together across the top of it.  It is about 22 feet across, so I also put in a little cement pad in the middle of it so that I can  brace it with a 4x6 when loading heavy logs.  I use two 2-ton manual cable pullers that I bought for $20 each.  It really works quite well, since I do not have a tractor with a front-end loader. 

We do have a tractor with hydraulics on the back.  I have found that you can order forks for the back for around $150.  I might try that too, but have never heard of it being used before.  That would allow for more movement of logs than I can do manually with my cant hook and peavy. 

I am in the middle of building my first dehumidification kiln as well.  It is 12 feet by 4 feet by 4 feet.  It should hold anywhere from 400 - 600 board feet of lumber, which should dry to 6-8 % moisture content within 4-5 weeks. 

Mesquite being an exotic hardwood, the price per board foot is quite good.  I live in the middle of mesquite central here south east of San Antonio.  My property has quite a few mature mesquites on it.  I'd say probably over 100.  And I have thousands of smaller mesquites on the property too.

Whether or not I can sell my lumber, I can always make a final product out of the lumber, be it cutting boards or furniture, or flooring.  I should be able to sell some of this part-time.

The mill was brand new two years ago.  I have a tarp over it now, and am getting ready to put a roof over it soon.  Just because it is called a hobby mill does not mean that it is inferior.  I don't use it for more than a hobby right now, but I plan on building a business around it.  It does its job and it does it well whenever I need it.  I had occasion to call the company for help one time, and they sent me a replacement part no questions asked.  I think it arrived in two days.  The service you get when you buy a mill should also be considered.  In my experience, Woodmizer's service is first rate.

With 200+ logs to cut, just think of the backbreaking work it will be to cut them up with a chainsaw mill.  Although they have their place, it probably is not enough mill for what you have in mind.  My bandmill has been excellent for my needs.

I wish you success in your venture.  And welcome to the forestry forum.

I just saw that you own a EZ boardwalk mill, congratulations!  I hope it serves you well for years to come.

Douglassawdust,welcome to the forum. What's all the lumber going to be used for? Congrats on your new saw. We would like pictures by the way.

Welcome to the forum Douglassawdust.

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Douglassawdust, and congratulations on getting the WM LT10.  :)

Greetings everyone and thanks for the kind welcome. This forum is a great resource.

thecfarm, most of the lumber will be used for remodeling projects around my home and the homes of my friends and family for cabinet panels, frames, baseboard, custom doors, and wide plank flooring and maybe even some custom rustic staircases. I added a few pictures of the process in my gallery called "Old Red Oak".

ForestMan, good to hear from a fellow LT10 owner and your experiences. Your mesquite forest sounds awesome - id like to see some pictues of that mesquite. I like the sound of how you are loading your logs. Handling and turning these monsters is back breaking work, and ive been trying to come up with a safer and easier way than just some ramps and a cant hook. Good luck with your kiln and selling your lumber- something id like to do as well. A lot of what ive used of this red oak has been air dryed in my garage for a year and then another 8 months in my basement with a dehumidifier. it works but it takes forever. I too picked up a bed extension for about 17 logs 16' long, eastern white pines i got for free for helping take them down. I figured the cost of the extension and a couple weekends worth of work is worth the timbers for framing a new roof on me garage. I agree with your assessment of the LT10 too, its an entry level machine but it does what its supposed to do and it does it well.

I'm a first time user to and was looking for a bandsaw sawmill. Like you I did not have much money and I found one for $2499.99 on Harbor Frieght and waited till it was on sale for 1799.99 and then took my 20% discount (which is easy to get online) and the final cost was less then $1500.00. The only thing is that you have to wait a couple of months before it is delivered and need a fortlift to get it off the truck. (//)

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, ramsfan18   :)

welcome ramsfan. Be patient it will come. Mine was back ordered twice. It was very easy to set up. I have a skid steer, so it was easy for me to unload. The first thing I did was build my own track as the one that came with it is to short, and add-ons were not available in the states. Very long order times. A guy helping me saw today said the boards were as good as any he has seen coming of a mill. I can cut 22" wide and 19' long with my set up. Get some good blades, I got some from Cooks and they are working very well.

Off on a tangent, what happened to Ozarkian who started this topic?

I made a quick look and see why you asked.  July 28 was a long time ago,

Maybe he did what his last post on May 30th suggested;  "I've dreamed of starting my own ministry, standing in the mouth of a great cavern speaking the truth."

HELLO!!!

What a surprise to wake this morning and have notifications from my favorite sawyer forum!!!

Unfortunately, I can no longer claim to be a sawyer.   :'( :'(

I had to sell my EZ Boardwalk Jr.  last summer.  Didn't even have it for a year, my heart is still broken.

The drought put me under before I got chance to get started.  The loss of my mill put me into a deep depression, seriously.  :-[

Magicman: Haha, the Ministry in the Cavern is still just a dream... 

Until I can get another sawmill, I am back in the grind.  Now... if ya'll are feeling generous, i'll accept donations to get a new mill ;)  :D

I hope you all are doing well and still cutting lumber and living the dream - nothing else compares to being a sawyer, nothing. 

God bless,
Ozarkian

P.S.  I am the manager for a great company that actually may be beneficial to any iPhone 4/4s users.  It is called Bodacious Cases - the case itself is water resistant and durable, but what I think would be beneficial to you all would be the fact that it has port coverings to prevent sawdust from getting into the ports on your iPhone.  I am very well aware that even if you have your phone in your pocket - the sawdust still will get in. 

Check it out if you like, bodaciouscases.com or on facebook.com/bodaciouscases, BTW our Cases are 100% Made in America (St. Louis, Mo.).

8) We were featured on ABC World News w/ Diane Sawyer and David Muir back in December 3 times for the Made in America Segment.  8)

P.S.S. I miss this place...

Quote from: ramsfan18 on February 24, 2013, 08:08:51 PM
I'm a first time user to and was looking for a bandsaw sawmill. Like you I did not have much money and I found one for $2499.99 on Harbor Frieght and waited till it was on sale for 1799.99 and then took my 20% discount (which is easy to get online) and the final cost was less then $1500.00. The only thing is that you have to wait a couple of months before it is delivered and need a fortlift to get it off the truck. (//)

Congrats on the new purchase.  I recall a while back, another user had picked up the same deal as you and was quite happy with their purchase.  Sorry it'll take so long to get to you, the anticipation must be killing you!

Don't forget to come back here and post pictures and a review once you get it for other interested viewers who may be considering it as well.

What got ya interested in purchasing a Mill?

Quote from: Ozarkian on February 25, 2013, 09:20:10 AM
... P.S.S. I miss this place...

Well, owning a mill is not a mandatory requirement for membership and participation in the Forestry Forum, otherwise I and many other members would not be here.

Best of luck with your endevours.

Herb

It is wonderful to hear from you sir.  Don't be a stranger.   :)

Quote from: Magicman on February 25, 2013, 02:08:03 PM
It is wonderful to hear from you sir.  Don't be a stranger.   :)

Thank you, I will try to make it in from time to time.  However, coming here is gonna get me bit by the bug and make me start itching to get another mill!  As much as i'd like that, it is not feasible at this time.

How's things going for you?  I have not read up on any of the threads or messages in quite some time.

Quote from: Ozarkian on February 25, 2013, 05:24:26 PMHow's things going for you? 

The rain has virtually stopped my sawing.  I have one customer that is hauling a few logs to my place each week for sawing because the sawmill is set up on a hill.  No one can get into the woods now.

The Cabin Addition is going well and I planed flooring lumber this weekend.  I should be back on that starting tomorrow.  Can't saw, can't sit, gotta work.   ;D

Ozarkian,

Once bitten, twice shy  ;D.

I have heard of some of the guys on this forum getting the mills that harbor freight sells. It is on sale right now for 1799 dollars. I think it looks like the  woodland mill. I own a woodland mill and it works well. The HF one has a 7hp motor but you could put a bigger one on later. It is no board walk junior though. Oh welcome to the forum. Hal