Electric Stihl saw..

[realzed]

Watched an aggravating Youtube video of a couple of idiotic British guys acting like fools while doing a comparison of a Stihl MS 261 to a new Stihl 300 battery powered saw this evening..
The performance of the battery powered version seemed amazing and it pretty much beat the 261 performance-wise hands down - at least from the tests as videoed.. 
The only area where it wasn't comparable was in the weight department as it was a little over 2.2 pounds heavier - but otherwise it sure looked like the first real good alternative to a gas powered saw for real tree cutting use in the woods that I have ever seen.
Both saws were fitted with one of the new Stihl narrow gauge chains and 04 light bars to apparently make them as equal as possible.
The 2 things omitted from the video test that I thought seemed like blatant oversights were - there was no mention of how long the battery actually lasted in the test cuts verses a tank of fuel, and the biggest, was no mention of the cost of the battery powered saw itself as tested nor how expensive the batteries for one would cost - as having a second (or more) backup batteries would always be vital for legitimate usage out in the woods.
Anyone know any info about the Stihl 300 series saw itself, how close it might be to being a legitimate Pro style model build-wise, and of course the actual pricing of both the saw and batteries?
Randy

[axeman2021]

I have the CM261 Stihl also a small Hart 12 inch batery chainsaw, the small Hart has it's place and at $154 saw&battery&charger, made it a good choice for some jobs.

But for doing a lot of bigger and long running needs, the CM261 is the saw that is needed.

Stihl's battery chainsaws are good but at their cost and the cost of their battries&chargers, your going to have around $1,000 invested and thats with just one battery.

[petefrom bearswamp]

The cost of the Stihl frightened me off.
I bought a 58v Echo for use around the mill and I have it in a box mounted on the front of my RTV for clearing branches and trees from my woods trails.
The Echo cost about 400 or so with battery and charger at Home Depot 5 years ago.
It serves its purpose, but I dont thing any battery operated saw is meant for heavy use vs a gas powered one.

[jb616]

Great videos from Project Farm:
Best Chainsaw Brand (ROUND 1 of 2)? Milwaukee vs DeWalt, Makita, Ryobi & WORX - YouTube
Best Battery Powered Chainsaw Brand (ROUND 2)? Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo, Oregon, DeWalt - YouTube
Best "Pole Saw" Chainsaw? EGO vs Milwaukee, Oregon, DeWalt, Ryobi, Worx, Craftsman, Sun Joe - YouTube

The guys does really good comparisons and is unbiased.

I believe the Echo got top ratings. @Posty  How is the Echo that you won at the Pig Roast? 

[Oddman]

This will probably be one of the big hurdles for this type of battery powered equipment. So it is out-performing the gas powered tool in a short-format test but how bout a full day of work? Say a job that will require 4 tanks of gas?
The battery equipment will have a difficult time making that pencil out.
Say that 4 tank job will require 4 battery changes (id say it would actually require more but ill give it the benefit of a doubt)
After the first battery is dead you start on the second while the first is charging. Switch out like that for the day. So you are looking at atleast 2 of the very expensive batteries, and being close to a power source. And the limited charge cycles/life expectancy of those batteries...so very likely they will cost even more over the life of the tool. How many 20 year old gas powered tools are around that function fine? Now contrast that to how many 20 year old tool Batteries that are functioning fine??
And the increased weight! 2 lbs is a LOT on a chainsaw.
Battery chainsaws have come a long way and are great for some tasks/users but IMO are a long ways off from replacing heavy use or long life gas powered saws.
I think the development of them is being spurred on mostly by legislation.

[SwampDonkey]

They don't have a clearing saw out yet. They have brush cutters in electric. But a clearing saw has to spin pretty much constant compared to a chain saw or a brush cutter. That's if you want to make any money. :D

[realzed]

I was in at a couple of local Stihl dealerships looking at Kombi systems - and took a quick glance around and didn't see the same 300 model that was in the Youtube video I had watched.
Maybe it's a brand new European model as the immature dorks in the video had strong British accents - as that model doesn't appear in the new 2022 Stihl catalog I picked up, but it was certainly a lot larger looking in the film clip than any of the regular battery powered current models I saw in the showrooms today and there were a lot of saws and battery powered ones out on display.
If anything - it actually looked a lot like a 261 model structurally, with a battery port on top..
I'm guessing by the sound of the comments here so far, no one has seen one, knows much about the 300, or obviously has actually tried one of these 300 models out.
I should have asked the tech guy I was speaking with, but we were deeply involved in discussing trimmers and pole saw-things and battery saws never came up in the conversation admittedly.
I will likely be back at the biggest of the 2 dealerships again tomorrow - so I'll try and see what info I can dig up, to satisfy my curiosity if nothing else!

[SwampDonkey]

I don't see anything larger than this listed on their Canadian and USA sites. MSA 220 C BQ 36 volts, 37 minute run time on the battery.

MSA 220 C-BQ -

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/battery-saws/msa220cb

[axeman2021]

I wonder if will also be able to charge a chainsaw battery and maybe a iPhone, with them 500,000 battery charging stations we are going to see all across the USA? 8)

[sablatnic]

Just checked prices locally - around $850.- without battery.

[sawguy21]

Oh you want a battery too? What a crock, offering a tool at a good price then saying that is an extra cost option once the sucker prospect is hooked. You want wheels and tires on that shiny new $75,000 truck? Lessee, what can we do here. 

[axeman2021]

Oh you want a battery too? What a crock, offering a tool at a good price then saying that is an extra cost option once the sucker prospect is hooked. You want wheels and tires on that shiny new $75,000 truck? Lessee, what can we do here.

This is why I said to get started with a battery chainsaw it might be a good idea to start with one that comes with both battery and charger for $154 and a 90 day return policy.

[realzed]

As I mentioned I was back at the dealership today and asked some more ??'s about the 300 model I viewed on Youtube.
Apparently they know about it - but there isn't any real data out about it except it isn't available in NA yet nor may it ever be - it a Euro-thing at this point!
Built on what looks to be a 261 chassis (even appears to have the  same chain/clutch side cover and the same Light 04 bar and RSPro style of chain combo as some current 261 models!
They have no idea on pricing, battery details except that it has a 3 stage power level battery setup, nor do they have any idea if in fact it will ever show up here!
They did admit that the better battery saws they already have do display great torque and the 300 model would probably even that much better - but as always the batteries are usually the issue with customers because of the cost, weight, availability, and need always to be close to a power source for recharging.. and this model probably wouldn't lessen in any way those issues going forward - except greater capacity means longer times needed between charges hopefully..
Be interesting to see if the model will ever materialize in NA and how if it did, it might change the battery powered landscape - since it appears it would be quite a step up in size and power for this type of tool!
I would never buy one considering the expected cost and convenience factor(s) along with the fact that for me part of the appeal of a gas saw admittedly is somewhat rooted in the sound, smell, and the fact that it's a sensory-thing when running one - but interesting it would be none-the-less..
I haven't been able to find the video again - but if I do and you can ignore the idiocy of the guys doing the testing, I will try and post a link to it so you can come to your own conclusions about the viability of the saw itself!
Not the video I was looking for - but later in this one it does show the 300C-O model..
BRAND NEW STIHL MSA 300C PROTOTYPE REVEALED!! - Bing video

[Real1shepherd]

I wonder if will also be able to charge a chainsaw battery and maybe a iPhone, with them 500,000 battery charging stations we are going to see all across the USA? 8)

My son lives in NYC and has fallen victim to the way the people think there. Really hot to get a Tesla a few yrs ago. I said forget about driving across country. 'Oh no dad, they have charging stations all across the country and more planned!' I said that's funny because I've only seen two in my life....over towards Seattle(of course). Then he produces this YouTube vid of some hipster doofus traveling across country in one. If you pay close attention to the vid, he had major troubles finding enough charging stations to fill in the mileage interval gaps......had to plug in at motels etc(bet the motels loved that). It was a joke, although the vid tries to make it all serious. Those fast charge stations only bring your batteries up to about 80-85% charge, so you don't even get the full range of your car's potential.

Then he bought a used Lexus hybrid for a LOT of money...crazy money for a 2013 model. Lots of stuff wrong with the car, but he paid $4,500 for an extended warranty. He's had about that much done on the car to fix things. Depends how you look at it....he paid a LOT of money for a used car and then $4,500 on top of that. So sure, the warranty covered everything, but you have to add that to the purchase price of the car because that's what you're into the car for. Loves the car though. When it's paid off, he's gonna give it to me he says. It will be at that point the batteries need replaced which is about $4,500(now). Oh boy....but testosterone and genetics got the better of him though. Next up he wants a Porsche Cayenne for the 'go' and the styling(Lexus front ends now are just plain ugly).

I think electric chainsaws will settle in at some point as a viable option for light storm clearing, limbing and what not. However, I think it's gonna take this 'new' generation of rechargeable batteries that 'they' keep talking about to make them competitive with gas saws. Ya know, the 'new' generation that's gonna come from captured alien technology.8)

Kevin

[Ljohnsaw]

So you are looking at atleast 2 of the very expensive batteries, and being close to a power source.

How are you getting out to the woods to cut the trees?  A truck?  I have DeWalt 20v tools and I am working off-grid on my cabin.  I have a small deep cycle battery that I charge from a ~200w solar panel.  DeWalt makes a "car" charger that plugs into your cigarette lighter.  I did some testing and it charges my 5ahr batteries as fast as my home fast chargers.  After charging 3 of them in the evening (no solar), it dropped the big battery's voltage by 0.1 volt - so not much.  I am really happy with how it performs.  At some point, I'll be getting the DeWalt 20v saw for around my mill to cut up slabs.  Firing up my 290 to make a few cuts is just annoying and an electric would fit in quite well there.

[Oddman]

So you are looking at atleast 2 of the very expensive batteries, and being close to a power source.

How are you getting out to the woods to cut the trees?  A truck?  I have DeWalt 20v tools and I am working off-grid on my cabin.  I have a small deep cycle battery that I charge from a ~200w solar panel.  DeWalt makes a "car" charger that plugs into your cigarette lighter.  I did some testing and it charges my 5ahr batteries as fast as my home fast chargers.  After charging 3 of them in the evening (no solar), it dropped the big battery's voltage by 0.1 volt - so not much.  I am really happy with how it performs.  At some point, I'll be getting the DeWalt 20v saw for around my mill to cut up slabs.  Firing up my 290 to make a few cuts is just annoying and an electric would fit in quite well there.

My post was not meant to be a total bash on battery saws. Only to outline how they are not a viable replacement for gas saws in the same power/size/work-capacity range. They just don't meet the requirements (in my opinion) yet. 
I have the DeWalt 20v saw, the 12" model. I like it. It's nothing like a gas saw and didnt expect it to be. I look at it like something between a bow saw and a "real" chainsaw. It will eat a 5AH battery pretty quick if your cutting anything of much size. Or if its in the 30's or lower then that also affects the battery life a bit. I find it useful in the side by side for "just in case" duty, or camping, checking fence, maybe a little at the mill but only for small stuff. It fits in the ATV box real well too. Or rough framing jobs like a shed or pole barn, it comes in handy.
Now for real work? Cutting a cord of firewood or falling timber, etc...no. 
They have their place, yes, but currently that place is fairly small. An again, if it weren't for some jurisdictions Mandating! electric replacements for typical small-engine applications (California...) then they would most likely remain in their current "small place". But of course, how else would the political class gain more control AND profit from their insider trading game....

[Ljohnsaw]

Now for real work? Cutting a cord of firewood or falling timber, etc...no.

I agree.  But, the saw's capabilities have been increasing rapidly (it seems to me) so I don't see it far off (maybe dreaming?).  My buddy got a 20v DeWalt saw and I used it trimming up some stuff.  I was VERY surprised how well it worked.

[Oddman]

And think about all the work-capacity in just 5 gallons of gasoline. There are literally CHAINS worth of work in that much gas. In other words, if you touch up your saw chain with a few licks of the file between tanks then you will be running through multiple chains by the time that gas is gone. This is my experience anyways.

[Oddman]

Now for real work? Cutting a cord of firewood or falling timber, etc...no.

I agree.  But, the saw's capabilities have been increasing rapidly (it seems to me) so I don't see it far off (maybe dreaming?).  My buddy got a 20v DeWalt saw and I used it trimming up some stuff.  I was VERY surprised how well it worked.

Agreed, probably not far off at all. But DanG is it gonna be expensive. It would be interesting to measure out the work performed by 2 saws, comparable in size and whatnot, but gas VS bat. But not over the span of a day or even a week but over years. Then put a $ figure on that work output over time. At what point do the battery saws catch up to that? I think it would require completely new battery tech and enough time to elapse that the tech becomes cheap. It's gonna be a while. Unless petro products are made prohibitively expensive...but wait, that would make the battery saw even more expensive, the price of oil touches everything in the economy...hmm...might require an entire new economy to emerge? 
An no, i havnt put much thought to that, that was very off the cuff so probably plenty of error. Interesting to chew on non the less.

[SwampDonkey]

If it ain't 40V or more, don't expect much life per charge if your going to do real work. ;D

[SwampDonkey]

I wonder if will also be able to charge a chainsaw battery and maybe a iPhone, with them 500,000 battery charging stations we are going to see all across the USA? 8)

I'll see zero of them out in the middle of the Deersdale forest if I live to be 100. I won't even have to get that remote, I'll bet there won't be one at the end of the Royalton Road either, where I cut firewood. Those in their genius will try it once, even if it fails. Cause it all requires fossil fuels at some stage. Try cutting it out all together and see how that goes. What do you think is used to make solar and windmills and a lot of the materials for everything else to make it happen. All it's going to do in increase consumption of it. :D For some reality have a look at "Planet of the Humans" where they talk about the parts being left out of the discussion. ;D

[Ljohnsaw]

Now for real work? Cutting a cord of firewood or falling timber, etc...no.

I agree.  But, the saw's capabilities have been increasing rapidly (it seems to me) so I don't see it far off (maybe dreaming?).  My buddy got a 20v DeWalt saw and I used it trimming up some stuff.  I was VERY surprised how well it worked.

Agreed, probably not far off at all. But DanG is it gonna be expensive. It would be interesting to measure out the work performed by 2 saws, comparable in size and whatnot, but gas VS bat. But not over the span of a day or even a week but over years. Then put a $ figure on that work output over time. At what point do the battery saws catch up to that? I think it would require completely new battery tech and enough time to elapse that the tech becomes cheap. It's gonna be a while. Unless petro products are made prohibitively expensive...but wait, that would make the battery saw even more expensive, the price of oil touches everything in the economy...hmm...might require an entire new economy to emerge?
An no, i havnt put much thought to that, that was very off the cuff so probably plenty of error. Interesting to chew on non the less.

That would be an interesting study.  Just wildly spit-balling it here...

For the ICE side, I really don't see the price of gas dropping below $4 a gallon in California ever again.  How much gas does a feller use in a year?  I have no clue as I only burn 2 or 3 gallons a year - I don't chain saw much.  So, for me, I don't think batteries (the initial cost) would pencil out if I had to buy a bunch.  But I'm already invested in the DeWalt 20v platform.  So its just the tool cost (again, not a production saw at 20v) to me and it does make sense.

Now for setting up a production saw - yes, huge investment in batteries to keep you going.  That can be tempered by having 2 or 3 chargers (for 12v batteries as the supply).  Couple that with a 200-300w solar panel and charge controller and you have "free" power.  Prices keep falling but a setup with a lithium battery (can discharge to zero without harm and longer life than lead acid, plus a LOT lighter), 300w panel, controller probably looking at $300-400.  Plus another $100-$150 for 3 chargers.  Say a battery gives you 20 minutes of cutting (you wouldn't be cutting for a solid 20 minutes) and takes 1 hour to charge, you would need 4 batteries minimum.  That is if you are popping the battery back on the charger as soon as you deplete it.  It would probably need a few minutes to cool down before it starts charging.

So, would need 8 batteries? just to be safe.  Roughly $100/battery.  So were up to $1,350 +/- plus the saw.  But I would challenge that a quality saw would be roughly the same cost as a feller's gas saw, right?  So remove that from the equation.  Ah, but you say what about bar oil?  Can't escape refined oil, etc, etc.  What about vegetable oil for bar oil?
So, take the $1,400 for your "fuel" cost for the life of the batteries/solar panel/battery bank (min 3 years, maybe 5-7?) and divide that by the cost of gas ($4) plus 2 cycle oil ($1) per gallon and that comes out to 280 gallons.  Back to my first question, how much gas does a feller use a year?  If we assume the batteries get 5 years, then that 280 gallons gets split down to 56 gallons a year.  That's a lot of gas but what does a feller go through?  Two gallons a day?  Four?  Say 2 and that 56 gallons last 28 cutting days.  But a feller looking to make a decent living is probably cutting more than 28 days a year!

So, if the performance is there with a battery saw, and all my assumptions above are valid (you know what they say when you assume), battery saws might be the next big thing... :  (someone, check my math)

[SwampDonkey]

Plus all the fossil fuels burned to grow, harvest and make veg oil and subsidies burned to make 'cheaper'. Just use the bar oil. :D

[Clark]

Let me try to get this back on track...

We have one of the 220 models at work along with several batteries. We didn't ask for them, they just showed up one day. Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

This particular model works well for pruning and cutting smaller things. It would probably do well near a sawmill if you're not cutting anything over 6" diameter. West coast guys could up that to 8" since they don't know what a hardwood is!  :D

We use it pruning all winter long and one battery will last most of a day cutting small stuff. Maybe an occasional limb 4"-6" but generally under 2" diameter. For that it is quite good and we prefer it because it saves us one motion: pull starting. Multiply that over 100 times a day and it adds up. So they have a place but as pointed out, the cost of startup is high especially in light of cheap saws that will "work well enough". 

Maybe this newer saw is that better but I wouldn't expect an even comparison to a 50cc saw. Our saw, if you decide to cut an 8"-10" piece will use up a considerable amount of battery. Our 261 eats through that and will happily go larger. The electric won't. 

Clark

[Oddman]

Im not here to dissuade you from the battery saw, sounds like it would make sense for you. 
Yes, IF the performance is there (its nowhere close yet) and as far as the assumptions... theres alot going on here that's not lining up well. 
1. A battery that can compete with a pro level felling saw is most likely to cost much more than $100.
2. Hot weather, the time required to cool the battery prior to charge is probably going to be a problem. Ask any carpenter that works in the heat with high draw cordless stuff. 
3. You mention that a feller wouldnt be cutting for a solid 20 minutes. Um, most of the time, probably not, but there are times when that's happening. In a cut for that long, no, but plenty of times when a guy is out of the cut for just seconds before starting another, rinse repeat till the tank is dry, refill quickly, get back at it. 

I was a faller for a small crew about 12 years ago, ive had experience in a production environment. I'm still in that environment from time to time, just not cutting full time any more. 
You need equipment with a 100% duty cycle. Having a hard time figuring how a battery saw will deal with all the heat. The saw itself is not the hard part, it's the batteries. A battery powerful enough to run up against a Stihl 500i is gonna be impressive. But we are quite a ways from it right now. And once again, when we get there, those batteries are going to be very costly.
Think of the EV's out there that get however many miles on a charge then they need to sit on a charger for, what, 30 mins or so? Thats the duty cycle problem. ICE's are basically 100%. Run an EV for 3 hours, hit a fast charger for 30 mins, your around an 80% duty cycle. Can they get 3 hours of highway travel on a 30 min fast charge? Either way, theyre not at 100% duty cycle.