wattle and daub question

[Jim_Rogers]

To all:

I have a customer who wants to do wattle and daub infill on his 16x20' cabin.

I told him he was crazy due to the timbers being exposed to the weather.

Does anyone have any information on the weight of wattle and daub per sqft or however it is measured?

Jim Rogers

[beenthere]

[beenthere]

And for the timber frame. Part 1 and 2

[Don P]

I'd expect using single wythe brick weights would be conservative.

Edit:, I was looking at the pics above, a quick google mentioned 12" thick walls being typical... so "It depends"!

[Jim_Rogers]

I sent this question to my engineering friends and got several good replies.
Most said between 100 and 110 lbs per cubic ft of wall.

I have seen those videos but thanks for posting them.

Jim Rogers

[Don P]

Cool, next question to get a weight per sf is how thick is the wall.

[Jim_Rogers]

Cool, next question to get a weight per sf is how thick is the wall.

I don't know yet. They don't know yet. They are winging it.

[Don P]

Trying to line up ducks myself today 

[beenthere]

Jim
I didn't know for sure what you were asking about, so did a search and found these videos that I posted. Figured I wasn't the only one wondering just what "wattle and daub" was all about. So hopefully helps others, as figured you already must know. 

Is the question about weight needed so you can figure out a timber frame design?

[Jim_Rogers]

Is the question about weight needed so you can figure out a timber frame design?

Well, yes, sort of. They bought one of my 16x20' cabin plans and want to do wattle and daub. They'll need some nailers or girts to make smaller "panels" to daub. And that means the upper panels will have to be supported by the nailer or girt. So it has to be the right size for the load.
They aren't aware of the circumstances of their decision to do wattle and daub yet. They are going to learn a long hard lesson about that type of infill leaving the exterior posts/braces/tie beams exposed to the weather. The rain will run in every joint unless they come up with something to seal it up. And what happens after the sealed-up joint dries out? more gaps. And reseal again, and again and again.

Jim Rogers

[Don P]

There is plenty of precedent though.
One of the first codes came from Hammurabi, king of Babylon. His laws predate the old testament. They are the "eye for an eye" laws we know from Mosaic law.

This particular code is where our term "breaking and entering" comes from. I've read that this section is talking about wattle and daub construction and dates from about 4000 years ago.

If any one break a hole into a house (break in to steal), he shall be put to death before that hole and be buried.

I'd try to make it where they can as easily as possible cover the exterior and retain the render on the inside if they have issues.

[Planeiron]

Hi Jim. There's some good general info on wattle and daub on the historicengland website as well as other good info.

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/eehb-insulating-timber-framed-walls/

It won't answer the load question but might give your customer an idea of the particular challenges of using wattle and daub in terms of moisture. There are a lot of old frame exposed buildings in England with brick and various infillings. I'm sure they haven't been without issues but are still standing. I wouldn't finish a structure this way but i do like how they look!

[GRadice]

Wattle and daub infill in a timber frame has been used for centuries in Japan, although not as common today. There it is called tsuchikabe. One method used to seal the mud edges to the frame is to rout a groove into the posts and beams and tuck the edges of the plastered wall into that groove. Girts are thinner than posts and are completely covered by the plaster so no exposed to the elements. There are other methods, too.

https://japanesecarpentry.com/wordpress/natural-clay-walls/