Chain sharpening

[Bosco]

I've always used a file, but have sent my chains out to be sharpened too, thinking I need to get my own sharpener? looking for advice on models out there. All my saws are different so how hard is it to change size,angle etc...?

[barbender]

.404 and 3/8 use the same grinding wheel, .325 you have to switch to a different wheel. It would be kind if a pain to switch back and forth constantly. Otherwise, all the angles are easily adjustable on most grinders.

[Tom King]

I bought a cheap one decades ago, and pretty soon after using it wished it was back where it came from.  It does fine at setting different angles, and cuts consistent tooth lengths, but it doesn't have nearly enough power.  It slows down as soon as you engage the grinding wheel.  You can go really slowly, and it works, but that just heats the tooth up more.  I forget the brand name, but it's not a chinese one. 

I don't use it any more because a file is faster.

[beenthere]

Like Tom, I switched to a couple different sharpeners. But setup time and getting good sharp chain that I was happy with, went back to hand filing and found it less total time and more satisfying. Disappointing to get done with a chain off the sharpener to then find it doesn't cut well. 

Not saying those with a sharpener shouldn't be happy with their sharpeners. 

[JD Guy]

I use the Oregon  520-120 (if I remember correctly). Bought it primarily to bring cutters back after finding metal or the occasional dumb act of finding a rock! It works very well if you take small tap, tap on the cutter and don't bear down and burn the tooth. Set up is easy and straightforward, just follow the instructions. Changing the grinding wheel is also easy. I wait until I have a few of the different size chain and do them at the same time. I also freehand file but find that after awhile my top plate angles get off by a little and the grinder brings them easily back to specs. Good luck 

[barbender]

Yes you have to take a very light touch with a chain grinder. I don't remember what model I have, it is a Tecomec with the hydraulic clamp. I put a CBN wheel on it, but even with that you have to take a very light grind. It's not a problem with the grinder, but the nature of sawchain IMO. If you grind hard at all, the teeth want to curl and form a bur, which does nut cut well. 

 I think the reason a lot of people have a low opinion of chain grinders is that they are grinding too hard and not getting good results. My ground chains cut right with my hand filed ones. 

 I don't mean to suggest that everyone is being heavy handed with their grinders, either. On the contrary, you almost have to be ridiculously light handed. I set mine so it is just BARELY touching the teeth, and as I start advancing sometimes I'm not even touching some due to the initial adjustment. So I'll adjust it slightly heavier to grind those teeth and make a complete revolution. As someone else mentioned, tap, tap, tap.

  I've also noticed, at least on my firewood processor, the the ground chains have a far more durable edge. I think that is due to the shape of the edge it leaves. All I know is, once the ground edge dulls, I'll file it a couple of times and then get sick of how quickly they go dull and swap out for a fresh ground chain.

 

[ladylake]

  I think the reason a lot of people have a low opinion of chain grinders is that they are grinding too hard and not getting good results. My ground chains cut right with my hand filed ones.


  Well said, I use a grinder and my chains cuts as good or better than new, plus its FAST.  Steve

[HuckFin]

I like the Stihl 2 in 1 file better than any of the grinders I've tried.
.

[bluthum]

Another vote for the 2in1 file guide. I was amazed the first time I used the newly filed chain, sharp as new and pretty fast to file though a tiny bit slower than straight free hand filing. Much faster than grinding though as you don't have to dismount the chain. 

I'm sorta suspecting the drag lowering each time may be more important than I'd always thought. Previously I only lowered the rakers a few times during the life of a chain.

What ever the reason it works I'm in love with the new 2in1 system. Still to be determined how long the square file will last and cost of replacement there.

[barbender]

 I have a 2 in 1 Stihl/Pferd hand file too, it's a good unit. 

 I probably never would've bought a grinder if I didn't get the firewood processor. It is difficult to hand file the chain on it, it's in a tight spot. But now that I have it, I like to touch up my chainsaw chains too. I'm pretty good at hand filing but I'll never be as consistent as the grinder🤷

[lxskllr]

From what I've read, and a bit of what I've seen in person, it looks like using a grinder is a distinct art form, and requires practice to get good repeatable results. Not a a plug it in and magic happens kind of thing. I like hand filing, and my work load supports that. I'm not doing machines, and I'm not doing several saws every day.

[WLzM1A]

  I hand file and use the Stihl 2 N 1, but for a grinder, do yourself a favor and get a good one if you do.  I have the Tecomec Super Jolly.  It is very easy to go from chain to chain, regardless of size.  I put a brighter bulb in it as the eyes are aging and put a Foley Belsaw diamond wheel on it (#3570686). When I have multiple chains to get done, that's my go to.

[Bosco]

From what I read, see on youtube ,etc. I'm gonna try the Stihl 2 n 1.

[Stephen1]

I have the still 2 in 1 and am quite impressed. The only thing I would do different when I bought it would to buy more round files, I get about 6 hand files and then a new file works so much better. 
 I used to send my chains out until the guy sent them back saying I need to file the raker....Hellooooo..... that's why I sent them to you to sharpen. 

[jhellwig]

I bought one of the Stihl 2 in 1 things since the dealer didn't have any of the regular filing kits when I needed one for 3/8lp.  It kinda works ok but I think I am too dumb to figure it out.  Took me several times flipping it to find the right direction to use it then managed to pull it apart mid stroke.  I cant tell if I got it back together right or not.  The instructions are no help.

I can do a decent job with the guide that clamps on the file.  

[beenthere]

Sharpening tool for me is the Husqvarna Combi gauge guide





 

 

[Old Greenhorn]

Beenthere and I are on the same page here. I find those roller guides to be quickest and easiest. I have them for 3/8 and .325. I also have one for 3/8 X-cut, but found ut quickly I don't need it. I use the guide just to get the drop angle right. With the x-cut, the drop angle is '0' so I don't need the guide, just hold the file level. Yes, new files are nice. I was working on a chain early this week and felt like it was taking forever to get the teeth right. I grabbed another file and realized I was using a worn out file, which quickly went into the scrap bucket on my bench to come a punch or some other thing in it's future life. :D

[Wlmedley]

After trying several methods I also prefer the Husqvarna roller guide just wish they would make one for chain on my small saw.I like the way it keeps chain from raising while sharpening which is a problem when using clamp on bar sharpening tool.Husqvarna also makes a sharpening tool similar to Stihl which you can get for 5/32"size chain.I'm probably going to order one and try it.

[DHansen]

 

 

 I have been using the Husqvarna version.  It did help me learn better sharpening habits.  Like everything, the more time I spend on sharpening the better I am getting.  I also tend to sharpen, touch-up, every tank or every other tank.

[DHansen]

I was thinking about the original question about a grinder.  I think back 40 years ago and I always brought my chains in to be sharpened.  I lived with it for 5 years.  Brother in law gave me a grinder, and I did not fully understand the art of a good chain sharpening.  I used two different shops to do my chains.  Started to notice a drift to my cuts in the larger diameter cuts and longer bars.  Not a big issue with under 12-15" diameter stuff.  Questioned it with the shops doing the sharpening and received all types of possible cause, but really no help in correcting my issue.  I started sharpening by hand and slowly over the next 5 years got slightly better at sharpening by hand myself.  Then in the last three years with guidance here on this forum, my chains are better than ever.  Wish I would have learned early.  The roller guides shown are also nice.  Just have to keep them organized for the correct chain profile.

[barbender]

I suspect that sharpening, whether by hand or with a grinder, is difficult to get the hang of without someone actually showing you how. I had someone teach me how to freehand file a chain when I was about 18. One quick course from someone who knows how to do it right saves so much trial and error. I realize not everyone has that luxury, but anyone that struggles- watch for someone who has a saw that cuts straight and fast, and watch them sharpen.

[DHansen]

The internet has help put us in contact with folks that can help.  Pros and Cons to all this internet stuff.  But some common sense and there is good advise out there and folks that take the time to help others.  This is a good place for guidance.

[thecfarm]

My father could sharpen a chain!! Even in his 70's he could do it!!
Put the bar in a vise, get it at the right height for you or whatever works for you.
Might take more than a few times to get it just right.
I had a very hard time getting it. Much to my father despair. :(  I watched him sharpen a chain many, many times. I mean years!!
Finally, I took a log, me, chainsaw and a file. And I started on the log. Was not much left of the log or the chain when I got done, but I got it.
I can even sharpen a chain on the ground out in the woods, after hitting a rock and get it back to almost cutting like a new chain.
As I say, I must be doing something right, I can hold the saw by the rear handle, and it will draw itself into the wood.
Does not matter what you need to use or do to keep that chain sharp!!!!
A sharp chain is easier on you and the saw.
Just keep the same angle when it was new.
I call them witness marks on the teeth.

[SwampDonkey]

File my own with the 2 in 1 file guide. I don't set the world on fire with volume cut, but it's nice to work with sharp tools. ;)

[buzzegray]

I have to admit that I use  a HF grinder. Granted I don't cut a lot, but it works fine for me with a better wheel put on it. I adjust the thing so it almost hits the tooth, and then take advantage of the cheap quality of the unit and flex the grinder head so it kisses the tooth.

[Ron Scott]

I'm partial to hand filing with use of the Husky roller guides. I used to spend time watching my skilled tree fallers sharpen their saw chains while on the job. I learned from them and became comfortable with hand filing.

[John Mc]

After trying several methods I also prefer the Husqvarna roller guide just wish they would make one for chain on my small saw.

If you are using 3/8 low profile on your smaller saw, Husqvarna does make 2 roller guides for those chains. 
For the chains that use 5/32" (4.0mm) round files, you want Husqvarna part number 596 28 48‑01. 
For those that use an 11/64" (4.5mm) round files, look for Husqvarna part 596 28 47‑01.

Unfortunately, both of these lack the built-in progressive depth gauge tool, but they are good roller guides for that size chain.

[Ianab]

I suspect that sharpening, whether by hand or with a grinder, is difficult to get the hang of without someone actually showing you how. I had someone teach me how to freehand file a chain when I was about 18. One quick course from someone who knows how to do it right saves so much trial and error. I realize not everyone has that luxury, but anyone that struggles- watch for someone who has a saw that cuts straight and fast, and watch them sharpen.

Agree with you there. 
While not rocket surgery, there is a skill to it, like sharpening any tool. If you are starting out, first thing you should do is have a REALLY close look at a new chain. Look at the angles of the cutting edges etc, and how the top of the cutter shows no rounded over edge. Then when you sharpen, you are trying to make it look like that again.  If you touch up the chain as soon as the cutting slows down, it will only need a couple of file strokes on each cutter, or a gentle kiss with a grinder. Edge looks good again, and it cuts like new again. Rinse and repeat until you run out cutter. Rakers need checking and filing down occasionally to keep the chain biting into the wood.  That's a plus for the 2 in one guides, if the rakers are too high, it skims them at the same time.
I have a lot of respect for the folks than can freehand file a chain, AND get it cutting better than new. For us mere mortals, pick a guide system you like, and I'm no knocking grinders either. I've recovered some chains that have tried to cut rocks etc, and it takes a while with a hand file. It would take some careful grinder work as well, lots of fine passes, but my arm wouldn't be as tired if I had a good grinder. 
Main thing I like about a hand file is you can touch up a chain in the field in a few minutes.  There is no excuse to push on with a dull chain and really mess it up. Others may prefer to carry several chains, swap them over and sharpen them all later? Neither plan is wrong. 

[Gary Davis]

I have a friend  that just got the h f sharpener I got to try it out  the chain was in bad enough shape that it took two times around but the results were satisfactory 

[AndyVT]

I have to admit that I use  a HF grinder. Granted I don't cut a lot, but it works fine for me with a better wheel put on it. I adjust the thing so it almost hits the tooth, and then take advantage of the cheap quality of the unit and flex the grinder head so it kisses the tooth.
When I am logging, I go through a lot of chains.
I have an Oregon grinder that after many years of use has a little slop in the pivot and like you I make use of the flex to just kiss the tooth with a couple of taps.
 I hand filed for decades before that and my arthritic hands just couldn't take it anymore.

[Arcticmiller]

I have a Oregon/(probably made by tecomec) 620, it's pretty nice, there is a steep learning curve though, and I messed up a few chains in the process. It's reasonably accurate and far better than my hand filing.

Since it's ideas for spending someone else's money, I'd go with this one! Having watched some videos of it work I'm pretty impressed by it.

S-451-C High Production Grinder - Simington Chain Grinder

[Old saw fixer]

I have been sharpening chains by hand, starting freehand, then using a Stihl FG2 (bench mount).
I would like to get a Stihl USG grinder not because I have a large volume of chains to sharpen but because I like learning challenges and doing the best work I am capable of.
I sharpen my lawnmower blades and balance them using a Magna-Matic 8000 grinder and MAG-1000 balancer.  I like the results and can afford the equipment.  It is my hobby so to speak.
The only reason I don't take in work is because it is hard to get folks to understand that a blade or chain is shot and that frequent sharpening doesn't cost any more than waiting until half the blade/chain has to be removed to make a good job. 

[booman]

Came across this thread and am reading about people being impressed with the 2 in 1 file.  I think the main reason is because maybe for the first time the depth gauge is also being filed to allow the chain to get a full bite.  Admittedly, I have not tried one of these sharpeners and I am sure they work just fine.  Also, a motor driven grinder does not do anything to the depth gauges although it sharpens just fine it is not up to optimum.
I try to file the depth gauges at least every other time I file the teeth, by hand.  There are tools that work very well for doing this.

[booman]

Here is one.    Offsite photo link deleted by Admin, refer to photo posting rules.

[booman]

Looks like that didn't work.  It is a depth gauge file guide.

[Magicman]

Remember that if a post does not turn out as you intended, you can click "Modify" in the top right corner and make any corrections or rearrangements.

Also before you actually click to post the reply, you can click Preview and scroll up and you can see how your reply will look.  At that time, you can scroll back down and make any adjustments.

[booman]

Thanks for the reminder Magic.

[Corley5]

I got a MAXX grinder a couple months after getting my firewood machine. That would have been in February of 06 I do believe. I haven't hand filed any saw chain since. The first thing to do is throw away the rock wheels and get CBN ones. I bought a Tecomec when I got my harvester and set it up for 3/4 pitch with a CBN wheel. It's now equipped with a flat CBN wheel and is used only for cutting rakers. I prefer my MAXX for grinding cutters as the head can be flipped left or right so the wheel is always pulling into the cutter. Oregon and Tecomec grinders pull in one way and out the other which can leave a bur on the outside of the cutter. Older models had a reversing switch to prevent this. OSHA didn't approve of the spark shower the operator got sharpening one side. Three-way rocker switches can be had ;)

[John Mc]

I've used a Stihl 2-in-1 sharpener (which is really just a re-badged Pferd Chainsharp CSX in a different color), and found it "OK". The one thing I don't like about it is that it uses a non-progressive method for setting the depth gauges. With that, the efficiency of the chain tends to drop off a bit as the chain gets sharpened back. It also makes the chain more sensitive to having all teeth the same length. Using a progressive depth gauge tool addresses these two issues.

I do prefer hand sharpening over grinding. I tend to use either the Husqvarna roller guides or the guides sold by Stihl or Oregon which clip on to the file to hold it at the right depth. I use the progressive depth gauge tool to set the raker height. (My eyesight is not good enough to file freehand with a bare file and actually see what is going on with the tooth, so I seldom bother with that.)

[MAF143]

I round filed for years with the guide that clips on the round file and decided to get a grinder.  For me it just seemed like taking the chain off the saw, setting up the grinder (since I don't have the room in my shop to have it mounted permanently) took way more time than sharpening with a file on the saw.  The grinder got used once and has been holding down a shelf ever since.

This is a sharpening fixture I made from a 1-1/2" thick slab of hardwood.  I screwed a C-clamp on an angled cut on the end to clamp the bar.  The bottom of the slab has open cell foam stapled to it so it will set on my table saw or truck tailgate and not slide around.  Holds the saw / bar / chain nice and stable for filing.


 

A few years ago I tried square filing my chains with a double bevel file.  Cuts faster and stays sharp longer than round filed chain.  I practiced it and converted all my chains from round filed to square filed and haven't looked back.  As long as my eyes can see good enough to file this way, I will.

It takes a little practice and isn't for everyone, but it works very well for me.



 



 

[John Mc]

I like that slab fixture, MAF143. I'm not sure what you mean by "an angled cut on the end", and can't see it in the photo, but it sounds as though it works well.

I usually use a stump vise when filing in the woods. At home, I hammer the stump vise into a scrap of 2x4 and clamp that in an old Stanley Workmate workbench/stand I've had for probably 20+ years. It works well for me, but it would be nice to have something to use out of the back of my truck.

Someone (Gordon?) had a picture of how he welded a stump vise on to the loader on his tractor, which I also though was a great idea.

[MAF143]

I like that slab fixture, MAF143. I'm not sure what you mean by "an angled cut on the end", and can't see it in the photo, but it sounds as though it works well.

I have made several of these over the years for friends and family that cut wood.
The slab is just a round that I noodle a slab out of, nothing special although I try to stay with long lasting species.
The one end where the clamp is screwed in, I angle it a bit and mount it so you don't pinch your fingers when you tighten the clamp and the saw head gets kind of centered on the slab.



 



 
There's a second one leaning on the table saw base that will go to my great niece's boyfriend who just got a 462 last summer.  These are both out of Hickory, but I prefer Honey Locust.  The picture back in the first post was a Honey Locust slab.



 
anti-slip foam on bottom


Another advantage to this is that I can reposition it so I can always file right handed.  Not quite sure how to explain that but I just kinda get comfy and file away...

[John Mc]

Thanks. Makes much more sense now that I see the pictures.

Mount the clamp on the butt end, but off to one side, so the handle on the screw hangs off the side of the board. The angle cut in the end of the board aims the bar down the board so the powerhead is centered left/right on the board, rather than hanging over one side or the other.

Is that a 6" C-clamp?
Is the anti-slip foam something you picked up at the hardware store?

I may make one to sit in the back of my woods truck.

[g_man]

I like that slab fixture, MAF143. I'm not sure what you mean by "an angled cut on the end", and can't see it in the photo, but it sounds as though it works well.

I usually use a stump vise when filing in the woods. At home, I hammer the stump vise into a scrap of 2x4 and clamp that in an old Stanley Workmate workbench/stand I've had for probably 20+ years. It works well for me, but it would be nice to have something to use out of the back of my truck.

Someone (Gordon?) had a picture of how he welded a stump vise on to the loader on his tractor, which I also though was a great idea.

I Like the vise on my grapple - handy. Have two of them.




 




 


gg

[MAF143]

Is that a 6" C-clamp?
Is the anti-slip foam something you picked up at the hardware store?

I've used 4 or 5" cheapo clamps from HF but sometimes have to add a pad on the c side of the bar so the chain doesn't drag on the frame of the clamp when advancing the chain.  In the one picture you can see a white nylon pad from the bottom of a chair.  I drilled a hole same size of the nail on it through the end of the c-clamp and glued it to the clamp to give it some clearance.

The foam is just stuff I rustle up from around the house...  I like the 1/2" thick open cell mattress pads the best.  If the foam is too thick the whole thing will kind of wobble a little.  It just needs to be thick enough to grip, not bounce.  I learned this trick from roofers using foam couch cushions on steep roofs so they stick to the shingles like Spiderman.

[John Mc]

I have some leftover tool box liner (a thin rubber mat that is supposed to be non-slip) that I got from Harbor Freight a while back. I bet that will work under the slab.

I see what you mean about the pad to space the chain out from the clamp a bit.

[RetiredTech]

 I probably don't cut as much as most folks here, but I use a file to sharpen probably 95% of the time. However I also have the El Cheapo HF sharpener that comes out when the chain has a mishap with something harder or I have a crooked cut I can't seem to fix with the file. I bought it for years and only had to use it a few times so far. At that rate it will probably probably "last as long as I need it." (My Grandads favorite saying.) If it does die I wouldn't  buy a another one. There are too many better, affordable options out there.
 I definitely see @MAF143 's clamp in my future. I wonder why I didn't think of that? Thanks for the photos.

[Al_Smith]

It's all what you get used to with a file .This is what I use as a guide patterned after what Oregon had at one time before they cheapened them up with clips .A secret is using a bare file and periodically take the gullet down to the tie strap so 
it will carry a bigger chip before it rolls out .

[Keepfixin]

I use all sorts of devices for sharpening! But my best edge us usually achieved with an old Granberg filing guide. 
Freehand is possible but only a last resort. 
An Oregon filing guide is pretty good. 
A Tecomec grinder with 3/16" wheel is better.
 But my grinder is outside so I have to get the chains really clean of bar oil or my wheel loads up and leads to dressing the wheel about 4 times per chain. :-/ So today I just ordered a 1/4" wheel to try and see if it makes a difference. Worked for a logger about 10 years ago and he had a Silvey grinder with a 1/4" wheel I believe and we never dressed the wheel or cleaned chains and it kept on sharpening chain! It was also a white wheel. Dont know what composition it would have been?

[JD Guy]

For those of you who do use grinders where is best source for the CBN wheels? I spent some time searching online but would prefer some real world experience.
Thanks

[barbender]

 I got mine from a company in Minnesota, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

[WLzM1A]

Yes you have to take a very light touch with a chain grinder. I don't remember what model I have, it is a Tecomec with the hydraulic clamp. I put a CBN wheel on it, but even with that you have to take a very light grind. It's not a problem with the grinder, but the nature of sawchain IMO. If you grind hard at all, the teeth want to curl and form a bur, which does nut cut well.

 I think the reason a lot of people have a low opinion of chain grinders is that they are grinding too hard and not getting good results. My ground chains cut right with my hand filed ones.

 I don't mean to suggest that everyone is being heavy handed with their grinders, either. On the contrary, you almost have to be ridiculously light handed. I set mine so it is just BARELY touching the teeth, and as I start advancing sometimes I'm not even touching some due to the initial adjustment. So I'll adjust it slightly heavier to grind those teeth and make a complete revolution. As someone else mentioned, tap, tap, tap.

  I've also noticed, at least on my firewood processor, the the ground chains have a far more durable edge. I think that is due to the shape of the edge it leaves. All I know is, once the ground edge dulls, I'll file it a couple of times and then get sick of how quickly they go dull and swap out for a fresh ground chain.

 

What you said.....and its a Super Jolly

[kelLOGg]

On this thread most don't use a grinder but I like mine and don't want to switch to a manual file again. I need to replace the grinder wheel and most I see online are 1/8" thick. Mine uses 1/4".  What basis for choice for one or the other? 

[doc henderson]

Stihl has a thickness recommendation for several of their chains.  It is European and on the chart they use a comma instead of a period and is in mm.



so a .404 uses a 2.8 mm wheel, 3/8th used 2.6 and so on.  I use the same on 3/8th and .404.  I have about 3 thicknesses of wheel.

[ladylake]

 \
 I use a 1/8 CBN wheel on  3/8    .325  and 3/8 lp,  works great,  just get the wheel low enough so you have some hook on the side plate and keep the rakers where they should be.  I really don't thing messing around with different angles matters much. Steve

[khntr85]

\
 I use a 1/8 CBN wheel on  3/8    .325  and 3/8 lp,  works great,  just get the wheel low enough so you have some hook on the side plate and keep the rakers where they should be.  I really don't thing messing around with different angles matters much. Steve

The 1/8 wheel on 3/8 chain (exspecially the first half of its life), will have a lot different profile than a bigger wheel.... Nothing wrong with it at all with it...I will use the smaller wheel or file when the chain gets to like 25-35 percent life left...

[JD Guy]

I got mine from a company in Minnesota, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

Thanks, would that be Diamond Wheel, Inc. ?

[barbender]

Yes that is it👍

[YellowHammer]

I agree, chain grinding is not that hard, there are only a few adjustments, and it's kind of a non event.  One of the reasons I switched from a CBN was that it built up crud from dirty chains, and the abrasive wheel didn't.   

[Magicman]

Someone (Gordon?) had a picture of how he welded a stump vise on to the loader on his tractor, which I also though was a great idea.

John, I have a fairly simple solution that has served me for many years:


3 foot 2X8 with holes for the the stump vice and a little thingie braised to a carriage bolt.


Ready for the chainsaw bar.  The offset on the board allows room for the chainsaw head.


With the bar secured.


The 1X4 is to raise that end up for the wing nut underneath.


When I am done sharpening, the vice goes in a zip bag and the board goes in the back of my truck. 

[trapper]

will the rubber like block  that is used for cleaning belt sanders work on a cbn wheel?