Is 90 HP to much HP for a jd 450 Crawler ?

g_man · February 21, 2011, 06:59:27 PM

I have been looking for a small crawler, mainly to push snow and fix up trail. I found a late 70's jd 450 with a newer 4039T motor. The original 450 motor was about 65 HP. I think the 4039T is 91 HP. Will this thing tear itself apart with 40% more HP. ? Or is it a good improvement ?
It has a 6-way blade which I was looking for.
It also has a 3325 winch and arch. I wasn't looking for something to pull wood, but it could certainly do more than my small tractor if I could stand the beating. Slow is OK with me. Wonder what comments you guys might have about this set up.
Thanks
gg

snowstorm · February 21, 2011, 07:05:10 PM

are you the guy that was looking at a 2010? is it a b...c....d.....e.....??????

snowstorm · February 21, 2011, 07:29:26 PM

if its late 70's its a c they strated around 73......74 so its got wet steering clutchs thats very good. track frames front cross bar had bushings with bolts thru them ..the holes wear bushings were very hard and broke easy. fixed mine by having some made to fit the worn holes also added a brace from cross beam to track frame outa 1" plate end of problem. blades were never tight put in new pins build it up 1000hr later its loose. no tilt power but thats fine for you. there was a recall yrs. ago to put a netural in the manual trans. even with power shift in netural sometimes it would move. sideframes where it bolts to final drive most cracked ..just weld it can reenforce from inside. it needs 1500 to 1700rpm to shift rite. it should be quick but not quite throw you on the hood going r to f. as far as to much hp just dont turn it over 1800 rpm youll be fine. rolls sprockets ft idlers pins bushings rails pads ok??? center punch track shoes? rock guards? keep it outa the rocks dont let it freeze to the ground or undercarage freeze and youll have a blast. 450 was as good as any better than most

chevytaHOE5674 · February 21, 2011, 07:33:59 PM

If it has an arch and was used for skidding wood, check the sprockets and final drives for wear. The arch transferred weight to the rear of the crawler and accelerated wear on the undercarriage if used for skidding.

g_man · February 21, 2011, 07:37:00 PM

Quote from: snowstorm on February 21, 2011, 07:05:10 PM
are you the guy that was looking at a 2010? is it a b...c....d.....e.....??????

That would be me. Its a 450C.

scsmith42 · February 21, 2011, 07:38:40 PM

The only way that it would tear itself apart is if it has oversized tracks to go with that extra HP. Most likely you'll simply spin the tracks before breaking something.

snowstorm · February 21, 2011, 08:22:47 PM

if we are not being too nosy what are they asking for it?

g_man · February 21, 2011, 09:13:24 PM

Quote from: snowstorm on February 21, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
if we are not being too nosy what are they asking for it?

Not to nosey at all. Asking $15K. Have not seen it. Suppossedly 1500 hrs on motor, main clutch, pins, bushings, track adjusters, and sprockets. Winch rebuilt since then. Blade needs pins/ bushings as you said.
Has rock guards but track shoes are not open center. No clue what kind of a detractor that is for winter use.

BOBWOOD · February 21, 2011, 09:30:00 PM

Hello g-man...are you sure that engine is actually 91hp?...I was recenty looking at buying one and the guy said it was 49 straight or 66 if equiped with a blower. BOB

Bobus2003 · February 21, 2011, 10:23:13 PM

If its a True 4039T it should be about a 92hp engine (Not worn out). I have a mid 90's 4045T (130hp) in my 440 and It hasn't had any problems.. Easy to make the clutch slip if i'm not careful, tough on U-joints, And Well it scares me when its chained up, but i love the extra power over the stock engine.. Just gotta be careful and watch what your doin.. I wouldn't be afraid of the Unit

chevytaHOE5674 · February 22, 2011, 06:30:24 AM

Quote from: g_man on February 21, 2011, 09:13:24 PM
but track shoes are not open center. No clue what kind of a detractor that is for winter use.

Tracks will get snow between the chain and rollers or sprockets and want to jump off. Having open center pads allows the snow to push outward...

snowstorm · February 22, 2011, 06:58:13 AM

Quote from: g_man on February 21, 2011, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on February 21, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
if we are not being too nosy what are they asking for it?

Not to nosey at all. Asking $15K. Have not seen it. Suppossedly 1500 hrs on motor, main clutch, pins, bushings, track adjusters, and sprockets. Winch rebuilt since then. Blade needs pins/ bushings as you said.
Has rock guards but track shoes are not open center. No clue what kind of a detractor that is for winter use.

they are called mud releif shoes in cold dry snow wont matter. new main clutch?odd its never used. push clutch petal half way dumps oil from power shift side push to floor disengages engine. so its never used. if it perfect ill still offer a little less. i bought a 450c that needed steerings clutchs rolls ect. in 1987 for 13k

g_man · February 22, 2011, 09:04:35 AM

Thanks for the info - really helps me. It is more money than I originally wanted to spend but it is also more machine.

g_man · February 22, 2011, 09:31:58 AM

For what they are worth.

BOBWOOD · February 22, 2011, 10:00:52 AM

Cool machine g-man...I'd certainly buy it...but I'm not an authority on the subject...yet....just bought my 450C loader/backhoe this past fall...I should of mentioned there is a forum called JDcrawlers.com...great bunch of guys there and a wealth of information too. There's a fabulous post with lots of photos on rebuilding the blade mount by one of the contributors. BOB

snowstorm · February 22, 2011, 04:46:55 PM

its got the biger newer style front cross beam....thats good. hard to tell from pic but looks like its got mud releif shoes. most did up this way.

tjdub · February 22, 2011, 09:09:04 PM

The photos don't tell much about the undercarriage. The pads look a bit worn, which makes me wonder about the rails. When you're considering spending $15k you had better be sure you're not buying a machine that's going to need an undercarriage anytime soon. Even if you do the work yourself, you need to budget at least $5k for new pads/rails/sprockets. $15k is usually the price for one with a new UC.

There are measurement charts for guessing undercarriage wear on crawlerheaven.com.

g_man · February 23, 2011, 09:24:45 AM

I understand now that under carriage wear is a fact of life and from what I am hearing from you guys the difference between a 100% under carriage and a shot under carriage is $5K to $10K, which is a big percentage of a used machines cost. But no one has said any thing about time. How long does it take to get from 100% to 50%? Does it wear at the same rate over it's life time or does it wear faster at 25% than it does at 75% because there is more slop? What is the typical life in hours of an under carriage on a jd 450 size machine? I realize a machine used to terrace rice paddys will be different than one used in a rock quarry but there must be some guide lines to figure cost per hour to operate and allow reasonable maintenance or end of life predictions.
Thanks again for all the help. I appreciate it very much.

gg

tjdub · February 23, 2011, 01:31:47 PM

Quote from: g_man on February 23, 2011, 09:24:45 AM
But no one has said any thing about time. How long does it take to get from 100% to 50%? Does it wear at the same rate over it's life time or does it wear faster at 25% than it does at 75% because there is more slop?

After 75% wear, the bushings are probably worn through, so yeah that last 25% is probably quite a bit faster than the first 75%.

Quote
What is the typical life in hours of an under carriage on a jd 450 size machine?

Probably somewhere in the ball park of 700 to 3000 hours

There's also the option of turning pins and bushings before you hit the 75% wear mark. This will extend the life of the
tracks. Say you turned pins at 1500 hours, you might get another 1000 hours out of the rails. However, the labor cost is so high, most people seem to just put on new rails and run them out on these small machines.

chevytaHOE5674 · February 23, 2011, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: tjdub on February 23, 2011, 01:31:47 PM
Probably somewhere in the ball park of 700 to 3000 hours

I've seen machines that are used mainly in the snow go 5-6k hours on an undercarriage. Also seen machines used in mud and slop go in under 1k hours. If the machine is used at higher speeds (plowing roads, skidding logs, transporting it from site to site) it will dramatically increase the wear....

snowstorm · February 23, 2011, 06:16:27 PM

there is dry chain sealed and sealed an lubed. that one should be sealed all that was is a spring washer to try an keep dirt out of the bushing ...pin. looking at where the front idler is an how tight the tracks are. my guess is theres lots of life left . grosurer height seems like 2" new. i wouldnt worry bout thatanything over 1" is fine. no big deal to build it up. if pad bolts are loose thats not good. they let the chain work...move bushings dont stay pressed into links. i have listed most of the things to look at. 2 big bolts that go thru side frames in to the clutch housing. sometimes those brake. put blade down lift front up make sure it all comes up together. keep it outa the rock piles and dont root out big stumps. i worked on these for a lot of yrs and have been running em for 30yrs

mad murdock · February 23, 2011, 06:28:41 PM

That is a nice dozer. You will get plenty of use out of it. Very versatile with the winch and arch. the 450 is a straightforward honest machine, that is pretty easy on the operator, compared to some dozers.

g_man · February 23, 2011, 08:03:32 PM

Thanks for all the advice and help. I am going to go down and take a look.

Bobus2003 · February 23, 2011, 09:41:39 PM

My JD550G was @ 3700hrs when it got a new under carriage.. Luckly It was done by the JD dealer when I bought it.. so I got a Brand new SALT Under-carriage, and i didn't have to worry about paying for it.. thats a perk of buying from a dealer over private party though