The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts

Smith Sawmill Service



Author Topic: please help...hire orester or not?  (Read 8035 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ehp

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2833
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Simcoe, Ont.
  • Gender: Male
  • logger/chainsaw hack
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #200 on: July 05, 2021, 02:24:24 PM »
Barge unless you got a boat your not logging here , we got 14 inches just in the last week and to get 6 more days where it rains . Guy I have been selling to is pretty good and up front with me so I have not cut any high grade in a month or so but have lots to cut but were waiting till fall . The other mill is still buying but its at about 60% of the value of the other guy so it does not make sense to sell to them . Rank  if you ash is good its worth every dollar as much as your red oak on over all price. There is very little good ash close to the great lakes as the bore has killed everything, if it still has leaf your good to go but like I have said before , If its good timber wait till its cool , you will loose a fair amount of money cutting in this heat and if its good straight ash with no knots or limbs do not cut it period until its cooler , it will check and split in seconds on hitting the ground right now 

Offline Ron Scott

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8446
  • Age: 85
  • Location: Cadillac, MI
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #201 on: July 05, 2021, 06:19:10 PM »
Seek out the services of a professional and certified forester serving your local area with more than 5 years of local field experience in timber sale preparation and management.

Offline rank

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: 60 miles north of Rochester, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #202 on: July 05, 2021, 06:35:27 PM »
Barge unless you got a boat your not logging here , we got 14 inches just in the last week

Rank  if you ash is good its worth every dollar as much as your red oak on over all price. There is very little good ash close to the great lakes as the bore has killed everything, if it still has leaf your good to go but like I have said before , If its good timber wait till its cool , you will loose a fair amount of money cutting in this heat and if its good straight ash with no knots or limbs do not cut it period until its cooler , it will check and split in seconds on hitting the ground right now
Send some this way.  I got 3/10ths between June 2 and July 2 my crops are sad.
The ash is straight and tall no limbs many are 20" DBH and all are well foliated.  It's a shame to cut them all.  I bought a Wallenstein FX110 skidder. Getting myself ready for the fall.

Question:  Is it true the borer spend the winter under the bark of the ash tree?  If this is true, won't the larva/eggs be in the log when it's transported to the mill in the winter?

Offline rank

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: 60 miles north of Rochester, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #203 on: July 05, 2021, 06:38:29 PM »
Seek out the services of a professional and certified forester serving your local area with more than 5 years of local field experience in timber sale preparation and management.
I thought I did that.  I hired two already but i don't know if they are certified

Offline rank

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: 60 miles north of Rochester, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #204 on: July 05, 2021, 06:51:19 PM »
 PEC council had a presentation just the other week about the impact of the EAB on forests in the county.
Isn't that interesting.  I'll look for that presentation is on the Prince Edward County website.  And hello neighbour.

Offline ehp

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2833
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Simcoe, Ont.
  • Gender: Male
  • logger/chainsaw hack
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #205 on: July 05, 2021, 07:02:30 PM »
the bore I'm sure  has been  all over your area, I'm thinking they have been here 12 plus years and your not far really from me , I can drive to you in under 4 hours easy . If your selling logs to a mill its not going to matter cause the lumber should be kiln dried so the end of the bore and to be honest I'm sure the bore already has moved north of your area .  We still find small areas of ash thats alive but not alot right here where I'm cutting , if the area does not have alot of ash you can also find trees the bore missed . I just finished cutting 35 acres of bore killed ash and it all went for firewood  which is not good but lots had already fell over 

Offline Big_eddy

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Location: Quinte West
  • Cutting and Spliiting my way through life
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #206 on: July 06, 2021, 10:35:14 AM »
PEC council had a presentation just the other week about the impact of the EAB on forests in the county.
Isn't that interesting.  I'll look for that presentation is on the Prince Edward County website.  And hello neighbour.
https://princeedwardcounty.civicweb.net/FileStorage/EC29216AC6C2473EABC798CB562DB088-EAB%20Presentation%20-%20PEC%20Council.pdf
June 24 Committee of the Whole.
There is a link in the document to an MNR document "Preparing for the Emerald Ash Borer" https://www.eomf.on.ca/media/k2/attachments/Preparing-for-EAB.pdf that may be of interest to you as well

Offline rank

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: 60 miles north of Rochester, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #207 on: July 07, 2021, 09:04:16 AM »
the bore I'm sure  has been  all over your area, I'm thinking they have been here 12 plus years and your not far really from me , I can drive to you in under 4 hours easy . If your selling logs to a mill its not going to matter cause the lumber should be kiln dried so the end of the bore and to be honest I'm sure the bore already has moved north of your area .  We still find small areas of ash thats alive but not alot right here where I'm cutting , if the area does not have alot of ash you can also find trees the bore missed . I just finished cutting 35 acres of bore killed ash and it all went for firewood  which is not good but lots had already fell over
I left London on 2007 and yeah the borer was a big deal in SWON even prior to that.  I recall talk of cutting ALL the ash trees and how it was illegal to transport wood anywhere.  I haven't heard much talk of the borer here in SEON until recently.

Offline Big_eddy

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Location: Quinte West
  • Cutting and Spliiting my way through life
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #208 on: July 07, 2021, 01:30:49 PM »
Take a drive into Belleville. This is the year. You wont find an ash tree that isnt dead or dying. Top die back and epicormic branching everywhere.

The one tree type the Gypsy moths left alone. :(  Well except for sugar maples. Heck, the caterpillars have even stripped the needles off the pines.

Offline Stephen1

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2413
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Kilworthy ON> Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • Where there is a will, there is a way!
    • Share Post
    • muskoka Sawmill
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #209 on: July 07, 2021, 08:20:40 PM »
This has been a great post to read and follow. 
Rank dont be afraid to post you live in Ontario. It took me a bit to figure out 60 miles north of rochester.  :D
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline rank

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: 60 miles north of Rochester, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #210 on: July 07, 2021, 10:13:50 PM »
This has been a great post to read and follow.
Rank dont be afraid to post you live in Ontario. It took me a bit to figure out 60 miles north of rochester.  :D
50 nautical miles actually :)

Offline rank

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: 60 miles north of Rochester, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #211 on: July 31, 2021, 10:47:43 AM »
Hello everyone I thought I would stop by and give you all an update.

Told Logger 1 (who I believe is reading along here) to give me a new bid based on the trees that the Foresters marked (280 trees and 54,000 bdft).  He came back with $410/1000 for the ash, $500/1000 for the oak and $700/1000 for the maple scaled on the landing.  If the Forester's estimates turn out to be accurate that would be $26,300 CDN.  He mentioned that he expected the Forester's tally was a little high and he thought it would scale to approx $22,000.

This is all fair and good and I understand he has a business to run but I nevertheless told him I was going to pass on his offer because it just doesn't seem like there is enough money in logging to warrant running through my woods with a skidder. If I pick away at it myself I theoretically gross $51,000 if I do it myself.

Now get this....he says he wants me to pay him $5,000 for the 37 acres he marked.  I told him this was a outrageous amount of money and he would have to sue me for it.  Especially when he never provided me with a tally sheet by species and his verbal BDFT number was 50% below the actual amount he marked which borders on fraud IMO.

I hope he does take me to court I'll be anxious to tell the story.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10602
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #212 on: July 31, 2021, 12:07:37 PM »
Well, sorry to hear of the downturn.  Hopefully it will all pan out well in the end.  His prices on the stump are pretty close to what i would get hauling it into the sawmill myself, just fyi.  

One could have 37 acres professionally surveyed for less than $5k so i think his appraisal of an unsolicited service (that is no service at all to you, its merely a physical marking of what he wants to strike a deal on) is a little optomistic.  I think a reasonable court (if there are any left) will tell him to pound sand.

My father had a situation where an unsolicited paver knocked on the door with his standard "my son got too much asphalt for the job down the street, its gonna harden in my truck, i will pave your driveway for a super cheap amount per square yard" scam pitch.  Yes lets do it, all verbal.  Paves yard. okay now you owe me the X amount per square foot, hey you said yard, no i didnt now pay me..  I called the police and then attorney generals office.  AG said he came to you, unsolicited contractor.  you dont have to pay him anything. I told him the per yard price or nothing. We were blocking traffic screaming at each other when he took the cash and left.  (Stans paving on Rt20 in Palmer Ma. Beware.)
Isaiah 48:10

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8556
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #213 on: July 31, 2021, 12:31:10 PM »
I used to work for a reputable asphalt contractor, every summer what we called "the scammers" would come through town, rip a few people off and the sheriff would run them off. Always that same line, "I tell you what. We bought too much mix, and have to get it off the truck". The sad part is, a lot of people paid more for that garbage work, than we would've charged them for a professional, warranted job by a local company. I'll give them this much, they are masters at stretching asphalt out. I never saw anyone that could pave 1/2" thick like that and not drag gravel.
Too many irons in the fire

Online stavebuyer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1315
  • Location: KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #214 on: July 31, 2021, 12:46:20 PM »
@rank Thank you for the candid update. This thread ought to be required reading for anyone considering a timber sale.  Glad you had the patience to dodge the impending high grade as I felt the initial logger almost had you hooked.


Offline Southside

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9062
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
    • White Oak Meadows
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #215 on: July 31, 2021, 05:15:48 PM »
I suppose you can hand him a bill for $6,000 to remove the paint from 37 acres of trees.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Offline ehp

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2833
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Simcoe, Ont.
  • Gender: Male
  • logger/chainsaw hack
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #216 on: July 31, 2021, 05:38:29 PM »
Rank, he has no grounds to stand on so do not worry , He marked it under his own time and that is part of the job as we that are loggers have to do , timber prices are still very good right now but the big thing is who is going to scale the logs on the landing as that is the most important part as some scale fair and lots do not , like I said before , logging is like 2 banty roosters chasing each other around in the barn yard seeing who is going to come out on top 

Offline ehp

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2833
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Simcoe, Ont.
  • Gender: Male
  • logger/chainsaw hack
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #217 on: July 31, 2021, 05:39:54 PM »
Do I get paid for every bush I walk or mark that some one else gets NO, its part of the business

Offline so il logger

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
  • Age: 37
  • Location: southern illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #218 on: August 01, 2021, 01:53:52 AM »
Marked plenty of tracts myself only for landowner to sell my paint to someone else.

It's just part of it. Foresters here work on a percentage of the sale and are paid upon contract signing. Some are good at what they do, some not so much. Some high grade mark to gain the most revenue for themselves, some will call a post oak a white on the bid sheet to drive the bid up for the guys that bid off the sheet without inspection. The footage numbers off the sheet will be all over the place but rarely and I mean rarely will they ever be what is on the foresters sheet. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5694
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: please help...hire orester or not?
« Reply #219 on: August 01, 2021, 10:02:38 AM »
Foresters here work on a percentage of the sale and are paid upon contract signing. Some are good at what they do, some not so much. Some high grade mark to gain the most revenue for themselves, some will call a post oak a white on the bid sheet to drive the bid up for the guys that bid off the sheet without inspection
 

We pay our forester by the hour, not a percentage. I'm not interested in a pay method that incentivizes them to take more or high grade, and they are happy to work this way. He and his associate are good at what they do and recognize that we have other goals beyond maximizing short term cash from a timber sale. They have a great reputation in our area and are as busy as they want to be (actually, probably busier than they want to be).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Saw for hire

Started by WH_Conley on Forestry and Logging

48 Replies
9335 Views
Last post February 01, 2009, 04:00:06 PM
by LE-1
xx
How to hire a log builder? Or should I?

Started by Doug_D on Timber Framing/Log construction

9 Replies
1960 Views
Last post June 13, 2010, 09:29:43 PM
by Doug_D
xx
Sharpening blades for hire

Started by vfauto on Sawmills and Milling

10 Replies
1524 Views
Last post February 20, 2012, 08:44:46 PM
by Dave VH
xx
logging truck for hire

Started by s grinder on Forestry and Logging

14 Replies
8887 Views
Last post August 06, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
by NWP
 


Powered by EzPortal