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Author Topic: Buying a tractor  (Read 3505 times)

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Online Hilltop366

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2021, 04:46:33 PM »
I bought a new 24hp Montana tractor to resell at a auction once after they went out of business, it was made by Kukje same as Branson. The only difference was the brand name decals, you could even see a faint outline where the Branson name decal was removed before the Montana one was put on.


Offline kantuckid

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2021, 07:32:32 AM »
TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors is one source I use to size up a brand and model and the FEL or other common attachments. Many modern tractors share engines across brands. FEL's are often made in the USA and sized and labeled/painted for a certain tractor mfg.. I am far short of all knowing on the subject but even the major brands we identify with are mostly Asian, esp. in compact and utility sized tractors. Even those in that business probably find it hard to keep up with who is assembling what, using what components. All wheeled vehicles depend on parts mfg.'s to make much of what gets to a factory for brand name products. 
I've told this story before but it is probably still relevant to some degree: I was once part of a tech school educators group touring a Japanese mfg.s KY plant building electrical parts such as starter solenoids and similar. It was a modern plant with robotics and most employees were typical semi-skilled assembly workers. The mgr was local and sort of confided to us (he was a former local educator himself) that Lee Iaccoca (famous former leader of Chrysler some years ago) had sent down a decree that all Japanese origin stickers were to be removed from parts sent to them for use in assemblies they built and sent to Chryslers factories as he was a made in the USA freak.
 The worldwide source aspect is the still true part and much more in fact but the stickers part is probably limited to the back when mentality that the USA was the source for most everything. My state of KY and many other rural states have become "parts just in time" sources for various manufacturers. Ford plastic grills often come from Morehead, KY near me and many many more e.g.'s out there. 
My somewhat obscure branded tractor-Kioti is actually a source for many colors and brands over the years since they began in 1947. 
Google: Daedong Industrial WIKI and you'll see a chart that goes on a very long ways showing many brands, several engine mfg.s and so on. Kioti tractors are assembled in Wendell, NC using Titan tires, USA built loaders and probably wheels and other parts to the main chassis. Auxillary parts on my tractor like electrical can be an Interstate battery, a starter same brand as this others, so on. 
Many Mahindra loaders are built in  Sterling, KS by KMW-I think my Kioti FEL came from there too? 
Branson tractors get some discussion online but don't even have an info page on Tractordata or Tractorbynet at all.
I almost bought Mahindra last go around-talked to a dealer near me who had been with them the entire time in US market and still was. Talked to another long time dealer in TN or NC?, I forget who had quit the brand over warranty issues that left him in a bad position with his customers. I guess dealers matter but each one is a different storyline, brand aside, IMO.  


Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline North to Alaska

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2021, 10:50:19 AM »
Branson's are not a brand I've looked at lately and not far back they were very minor in the market. I just now skimmed their website and they have attractive machines. Niche brand same as my Kioti though both are huge corporations on a worldly basis. They are basically a TYM tractor-same as several other brands tractor models, that sell more tractors.
 I'm uncertain how they stack up overall against Kioti & other Korean brands-as I've owned several but they don't use re-gen which I'd rather avoid.
Their system is a DPF version and likely not problematic.
Choosing a Branson means you should also look at other TYM built tractors?
 
Just to clarify, Branson and TYM are not the same tractor. Owned by the same parent company but the two tractors are completely different.

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2021, 04:49:42 PM »
OK, your right. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2021, 03:15:17 PM »
They are owned buy the same company but kept separately. 
Branson are much higher quality and fit / finish is much better.
Branson makes their own engines has for years.
They are really good that's why TYM parent company bought them out.
You will see more engines made in house for TYM with Branson engineering or built by Branson.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2021, 03:18:09 PM »
Bad Boy mowers makes implements and Branson makes them a line of tractors now.
They have different lighting and a different tire brand on them. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Online Joe Hillmann

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2021, 11:07:36 PM »
I dont know if you plan to buy a new or used tractor.  If you plan to buy a used one.  Pay lots of attention to the rear tires and price new ones before buying the tractor.  Worn, torn, cut, rotted tires or  rusted through rims can become a major unexpected expense on what would otherwise be a good used tractor.

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2021, 08:24:36 AM »
Was just my experience, but I looked at used stuff for a year before deciding to go with new machine.  On the used end, anything decent was too dear, and the rest looked like somebody else's problems.  I don't have the shop capabilities to refurbish an old diamond in the rough, so that route was out.

Pretty glad I got what I did.  Size-wise and so on, it seems just right for our needs.  I won't be moving the earth with a utility tractor, but I sure can get a lot done.
Far as I can tell, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2021, 08:44:21 AM »
Lately tractors are a scarcer item at dealers, new or used. They have some but don't know when they'll get more. I've heard most wont even price one now, that's not sitting there, as they either don't know if they can get it or what the price might be when they do. it's a volatile time to buy things. Used tractors are not always someone elses problem_ i disagree with that. Looked at many lately but I will say that I'm avoiding anythings thats over 400+ hours or so. In big tractors thats not the same issue at all but I'm in the utility market not big tractors for big fields.
 Very often they are sold as result of a death, someone ceasing farming or a move to town or away from owning land and so on. Lots of low hours tractors out there so I've found but prices are often above what a tractor sold for new! but not always. Current inflation has affected many things, tractors included. Any recent made, low hours tractor is selling nearly at retail. New ones on lots get discounted still yet but I dislike paying 6% sales tax to buy new! and I don't qualify for an ag exemption so used private sale tractors are much cheaper. Good tractors do stay on the market for weeks and months though as I see ads daily. Private sellers tell me many potential buyers cannot get credit to buy a used private sale machine. Tractors like autos when sold by dealers you lose discounts to buy financed machines as it's added back into the deal. 
 Meanwhile there are tractors sitting dead right now waiting on parts and many brands affected. I saw a tractor ad recently on a web sale site the owner said it had major warranty reapirs and now a VG Mahindra but he further said he hadn't laid eyes on it in over a year while it waited for repair parts at the dealer where it was repaired and now for sale on consignment. That's one reason my tractor is dead right now-other tractors waiting on parts block valuable shop space. When a tractor is broken down it's then not mobile to sit aside out of the way. 
My dilemma is to either buy a 2nd one or wait. I'm testing my patience for now... 
 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2021, 09:07:45 AM »
Some good points, Kantuck.  Forgot to mention, it was odd when I was tractor-shopping, to be able to get what I would consider the marquee brand-Bobcat-for less than an equivalent Kioti machine, given Kioti is the manufacturer behind the Bobcat brand.  Further, the Kioti dealer wasn't sure if he could even get a machine in stock.  This was in '19, pre-covid.  

Another tidbit;  An LS dealer has set up a dealership right near my house here in town.  Unbelievable how they're moving tractors out of that place.  Every other day or so, stock is completely rotated.  I see trailers leaving with two and three machines on them, being delivered to new owners.  Not sure why, but they appear to be having no problems resupplying their stock.  Is actually a part of a tractor chain business here in NE WI.  What a goldmine.

Somebody said, 'why would they try to sell tractors in town'? or some such.  Heh, because they know about people like me that may live or work in town, but who have rural properties, may be nearing retirement age, may have pent-up need for such a machine, etc.  I looked at those blue ones and they seem pretty good, but I like my white and orange one!
Far as I can tell, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

Online Hilltop366

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2021, 09:24:39 AM »
Not sure why, but they appear to be having no problems resupplying their stock


Could be because South Korea did such a good with prevention at the beginning of covid, around here in the car lots North American manufactures are almost empty, while the Japanese brands are mostly full and South Korean brands are full. The Kioti dealer (the only dealer close by) has lots of tractors as well.  

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2021, 10:12:50 AM »
New tractors in todays market come from all over the world-mostly Asia. My last two have been Kioti's are of course, South Korean assembled in NC. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2021, 12:01:20 PM »
Bobcat, I am told, is going to begin more stateside production, somewhere in NC too I believe.  Same place as Kioti?  They'd planned this prior to covid, which did put a hiccup in their plans, but are said to be going forward with the move.

BTW, somebody either here or in another tractor thread thought Bobcat quit making tractors.  This is correct-they didn't want to deal with the then-new tier 4 requirements.  But work-arounds have since been developed, and they're back in that market with new product.
Far as I can tell, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2021, 01:39:16 PM »
Bobcat didn't make them, i.e. tractors to begin with- they sold re-branded Kioti's in white but only did certain models, not the entire Kioti lineup. Bobcat skid steers tyhgat they did make, had Daedong engines at one point, maybe still do? Not like I keep up with that aspect. 
I will throw out that the Kioti manuals are written by English speakers, not Koreans and seem well done.  I have the DK 35/40/45 series shop manual. 
Probably done in NC at Kioti assy plant. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2021, 05:42:22 PM »
Bobcat is owned by Dosan now.
I'm not sure but would expect the ctl , wheeled skid and excavators are all Dosan powered now.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2021, 09:10:29 AM »
When you go thru my Bobcat owner's manual, you eventually get to the warranty info in the back of the book-all Kioti.
Far as I can tell, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

Offline charles mann

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2021, 03:09:12 PM »
Iv got a kubota M7060 with 64 hp to the pto, 4x4, 4 fwd/rev in low/high. Even with the dpf regen, with now, 284 hrs. it has been great until a month ago when i was shredding my pasture and i started loosing power. It was acting as if it was trying to regen, with the low power i was getting out of it. 

Come to find out, the #1 injector crapped out, and my friendly field rats had gotten to the wiring harness a d chewed the insulation off the #2 injector wire, at the connector. The svc manager said a new harness was $1300, and my bill for the 1 injector replacement was $1700. After some common sense conversation with the manager, and a waiver of liability/warranty on the wringing harness, i got the tractor back almost good as new. 

When these new model things break, they are expensive
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2021, 05:38:02 PM »
FWIW: I've got my tractor back on duty a week ago- but still thinking I might go for something new. TYM is one I'm looking at- In sizing up the specs on the T474 I noticed in the header facts they say, among that header info says that TYM acquired Branson in 2016, who is actually Kukje. 
I've not researched anything further but I know some Mahindra's say made by TM, some by Mitsubishi and some by themselves in India. 
One TYM ad online suggests google-ing Kukje with the suggestion seeming to be that they mfg. engines?  
I was talking re-gen with an OH Kioti dealer/owner and he said theirs doesn't rely on electronics for re-gen thus less likely to have a gremlin show up.
Wiring is much less expensive to repair when you splice, etc.. FOMOCO wanted like $300+ hundred dollars for a chipmunk chewing a wire leading to my carbon cannister underneath on the frame-I got away with a self splice job reusing the pigtail too. Truck was brand new, only a couple of days old so I leaped at a warranty repair notion thinking the check engine light should be looked at- was a basic wire fix job in the end. They eat lots of stuff on our place, also mice and mud daubers-all make me extra work...
 
 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline kantuckid

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2021, 09:18:14 AM »
I stayed in the hunt for another tractor last few months, found a kioti dealer where I was satisfied on price, no tax but like many no tractor to sell me. I then began looking again @ Mahindra ( I liked the 3560) and TYM (I liked the T494) & Branson where I liked the 3620R or 4820R.
 
This week I made a deal over the phone for a private sale 2021 Branson 4820R near Hermann, MO which I'll fetch this next Monday. 
It's probably real close to firefighterontheside location wise?
 It's got 78 hours, well set up with remotes, fluid ballast, canopy (I'll probably tear it up soon?) and similar in weight and capacity to the Kioti NX4510/NX5010 tractors.

Per the fit & finish comments above-I've talked to several dealers who opt to assemble their own tractors as they can control things being done right and save enough to cover the cost mostly. Both Branson & TYM have better overall availability than Kioti but Kioti plays favorites with a few dealers who have "some" tractors to sell. If you are in the hunt for one of those 3 brands I can possibly save you some time shopping dealers as I've wasted plenty of phone time lately going zonkers over finding my next tractor. 
A NC dealer/owner of 3 TYM dealerships says that TYM bought 100% of Branson last year but they remain separate business entities, have their own distribution and so on.
 In this world wide shortage, materials higher costs & slowed shipping senarios situation there's much disturbance going on between various mfg.'s , distributors and dealers as to who gets the goodies. 

Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline zippski

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Re: Buying a tractor
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2021, 08:11:30 AM »
Meanwhile there are tractors sitting dead right now waiting on parts and many brands affected. I saw a tractor ad recently on a web sale site the owner said it had major warranty reapirs and now a VG Mahindra but he further said he hadn't laid eyes on it in over a year while it waited for repair parts at the dealer where it was repaired and now for sale on consignment. That's one reason my tractor is dead right now-other tractors waiting on parts block valuable shop space. When a tractor is broken down it's then not mobile to sit aside out of the way.  My dilemma is to either buy a 2nd one or wait. I'm testing my patience for now...   



Tell me about that...>:(


The local dealer has been holding my Mahindra 9125P waiting for parts for some minor warranty work since the end of June.  No timeline for its return.  It's a good thing that I don't have to earn my living with it or I would have had to get a loaner.  Apparently  a large fire in their Texas parts warehouse has compounded the issue.  The strange thing is, the main backordered parts are for the loader, which is built entirely in the USA, not in India.  Then again, they are electronic parts, so that may mean they are still  shipped from overseas

Leigh
zippski
Leigh
zippski


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