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Author Topic: Timbco 415ex??  (Read 3950 times)

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Offline barbender

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2021, 01:05:24 AM »
Everyone is raising a lot of good points here. I don't know much about the Fabtek/Cat 501 machines, other than they were supposed to be simpler. I have heard of the heads busting up pretty bad. Look back at Corley's experience. He went from, "think I'm going to jump into this, never thought I would" when he got into I think it was a Fabtek. I think I remember a few breakdowns where he was like, "what have I done?!" I would say remove any similarity in your mind between a processor and a slasher loader.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2021, 05:43:03 AM »
I understand thereís differences. But we ran a delimber also so that was the same. And 4-6Ē limbs ramming the head back and forth is why those heads are all broke up. Iím not considering one all broke up. The two with fabtek heads Iím looking at have almost no welds. And look at the used parts for timbcos advertised. Also there not ďtimbcoĒ there many manufacturers combined to make a machine. Even the fabteks. Deere engines cat bottoms. Pumps and valves are of hydraulic manufacturers not the machine manufacturer. And the 133s have a smaller bottom. I donít know 🤷🏼‍♂️ When I look at a machine thatís what matter to me. Then I spend some time running it and thatís the 2nd point that matters. I would never buy anything based on what a meter says hours/miles. When I ask on here about a machine I want to know if anyone has heard of problems or obsolete items. Thereís a wealth of knowledge here. 

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2021, 06:11:35 AM »
I don't know what to say about the fabtek heads.  Obviously that machine has some hours, did it always have that head?  If so it obviously did not cause a lot of shutdowns.  

Might be hard to do but I'd look up some fabtek operators up there that have high hour machines and find out, specifically, the fail points in the head and what to do/not to do.

Corley is not the only person with bad experiences with fabtek heads and that's one of the reasons I think you see mostly a big three of Komatsu, JD, and Ponsse.  If Cat can't push a system out into the woods there is a reason, and Cat made some good skidders.  With fabtek I don't think it was the case of not enough marketing and sales investment like what seemed to happen with Rottne.  I have never heard of any issues with Rottne just that they dont' have the dealer support that jd/komatsu/ponsse had in the NA market.  Fabtek had that and still failed.  

Liking Walnut

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2021, 06:22:07 AM »
I know several with the fabtek style head. Talk to two last night. The problem with that head is the way it opens and holds wood. Itís not bad itís just thereís better options out there. But no option as simple. One guys is very rough shape and supposedly cuts 150-200 cord a week. Another guy I know is a old hand cutter and donít run it often. Says heís just not good with it. I think itís old dog new tricks kind of thing. That head was and is very popular. 

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2021, 06:47:17 AM »

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2021, 08:45:31 AM »
The difference in CTL equipment and the OTR trucks in your example Mike is that say a 2000 OTR truck is basic and parts are available both OEM and aftermarket. If you have a vin number you can build a "new" truck from a catalog.

A piece of 2000 CTL is full of proprietary  antiquated, outdated, and obsolete computers and sensors. So unless you are able and want to re engineer the entire computer system you maybe SOL keeping it running. There isn't a large enough market for an aftermarket to grow into supporting the old machines.

For reference Peterbilt produced 42,000 trucks in 2019 and Freightliner over 100,000. Ponsse has build just over 15,000 machines since 1971. There's a reason the OTR truck market has a huge parts and service support.
I suspect the smaller relative numbers of CTL iron makes everything about keeping one together harder.  The supply/demand curve is against the loggers favor. 

Isaiah 48:10

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2021, 09:03:29 AM »
I only have a few hundred hours behind a timbco/4 roller setup compared to thousands of dangle head Ponsse hours. My experience with the head was it lacked holding power, delimbing power, diameter capacity, and accurate length measurements.

The "cradle pocket" in the back of the head was small so any tree of any size didn't seem securely held in the head. I was never confident it was going to hold a tree tight. They are slow heads so they need a tight clamp and traction of the feed wheels to delimb where other rely on momentum. So in larger limbs the 4 rollers seemed to do a lot of digging and spinning trying to knock limbs off. Even with an independent measuring wheel the lengths were never very accurate especially in rough wood our trucker did a lot of trimming...

I don't doubt a guy can cut 150-200 cord a week with one. Depends how many hours and days are in the guys "week" sometimes also. For comparison I would cut that volume in 2 or 3 days (8-8.5 hours per day) with a Ponsse Ergo, (in softwood or aspen did 150 cord a day).




Offline mike_belben

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2021, 10:42:05 AM »
Thats good information for anyone who has not run these things, thanks for sharinng.


Just curious, how many acres did that 150cd day cover?  Clearcutting?
Isaiah 48:10

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2021, 06:34:25 PM »
That was clear cutting nice Aspen at 25-30 cord per acre. 

Offline HandyAndy

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2021, 07:51:33 AM »
From a cost point of view, this calculator might help:

https://srs.fs.usda.gov/forestops/tools/files/MRCalculator.xls

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2021, 09:23:56 PM »
How far away are the Husqvarna 592's,new chainsaw or two will be a lower cost than any machine?

Most of the old forest machines appear to be in us$80K to us$100K range, to roll the dice on. A few in the us$100K to us$150K bracket  that are  probably stronger and heavier & not as old. 

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2021, 06:42:29 PM »
A few have said itís a bad idea. I say go for it. I would look for a machine in the 15k hr or so. By them the pumps may have been replaced. And buy a nice set of wrenchís you will need them but running old gear now you there are things to repair at times. Good luck

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2021, 07:41:02 PM »
I appreciate everyoneís opinions. Thatís why I ask I get good debate on here. But in the equipment I can afford I donít look at hours. I look at condition and history. Beyond so many hours all equipment can be good or junk. Just how it is. And thereís not much out there right now. I want a Fabtek head period. And Iím not driving all over the county just to save a few thousand if thereís machines in my area. Things are getting pretty close on this 415ex. Weíll find out if I want it next week. 

Offline Southside

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2021, 08:59:29 PM »
I have an older Fabtek on a JD 490 carrier. For sure I would never keep up with anything modern, and the old hose eater has her moments, but it fells trees in the size it was built for just fine and with pine I can process a fair bit larger than she was designed to handle and do just fine. 

Nice thing is she can sit when I am too busy with everything else and I don't have to worry about making a payment. 
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White Oak Meadows

Offline barbender

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2021, 09:45:45 PM »
Really, don't take my opinion too seriously. I mean that. My observation point is from a low hour machine I get paid to run by someone else. I remember one time on here an Appalachian logger was asking about old JD 450 crawler loaders. He was considering one for loading out trucks with big hardwood logs, apparently they had a huge lift capacity. My opinion was, my uncle had one and with a 6 way blade on it, it would've been a useful machine but with that front end loader I thought it was the slowest, most useless piece of iron I'd ever sat on. Well he ignored my advice and bought one, and it turned out to be the perfect machine for what he wanted to use it for.  Your operating environment, expectations for production, etc. are different in a lot of ways from what I work around every day, and the machine you're considering could be a perfect fit for your outfit. That Timbco Bargemonkey runs has laid a mountain (many mountains, actually) of wood down for him over the years. It's got a barsaw bunching head, not a processor. But as a base machine it seems pretty reliable. You know your operation, contracts, cash flow and mechanical abilities. If you are confident in all of those, I'd say go for it too👍
Too many irons in the fire

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2021, 01:06:28 AM »
"You can't cut wood with a barsaw timbco"... 😄... yeah... 
 @Firewoodjoe  I'm in the same boat buddy, looking at better iron and risking the gamble. The one thing the fabtek 4 rollers have going for them is Crosstrac seems to support them and has the 2 roller conversion. I spoke to them and they seem like good people, a guy 3hrs west of me bought a used Timberpro combo from them and had only good things to say. 
 If I stay cutting wood I've got no choice but to find a decent 6 wheeler and a dangle head, I could be working and finished with this job right now not fighting the mud. 

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2021, 06:58:56 AM »
Thanks guys. If all this goes as planed then the next machine will have a larger cutting diameter. Which means it will most like be a dangle head. But! I have to hand cut for a H8HD and a 624 Waratah because the woods to big. They have about 6-8Ē larger cutting diameter than the Fabtek Head. My area seems to like dangle and fabtek style heads. Go north 1 hour and itís mostly track machines fixed head. Lots of cf18s and cf22s. 

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2021, 09:27:24 AM »

"You can't cut wood with a barsaw timbco"... 😄... yeah...
 @Firewoodjoe  I'm in the same boat buddy, looking at better iron and risking the gamble. The one thing the fabtek 4 rollers have going for them is Crosstrac seems to support them and has the 2 roller conversion. I spoke to them and they seem like good people, a guy 3hrs west of me bought a used Timberpro combo from them and had only good things to say.
 If I stay cutting wood I've got no choice but to find a decent 6 wheeler and a dangle head, I could be working and finished with this job right now not fighting the mud.

Thatíd be JP Skidmore making the stuff for the old 2000 series heads Crostrek is the dealer for them.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2021, 09:28:39 AM »
Really, don't take my opinion too seriously. I mean that. My observation point is from a low hour machine I get paid to run by someone else. I remember one time on here an Appalachian logger was asking about old JD 450 crawler loaders. He was considering one for loading out trucks with big hardwood logs, apparently they had a huge lift capacity. My opinion was, my uncle had one and with a 6 way blade on it, it would've been a useful machine but with that front end loader I thought it was the slowest, most useless piece of iron I'd ever sat on. Well he ignored my advice and bought one, and it turned out to be the perfect machine for what he wanted to use it for. Your operating environment, expectations for production, etc. are different in a lot of ways from what I work around every day, and the machine you're considering could be a perfect fit for your outfit. That Timbco Bargemonkey runs has laid a mountain (many mountains, actually) of wood down for him over the years. It's got a barsaw bunching head, not a processor. But as a base machine it seems pretty reliable. You know your operation, contracts, cash flow and mechanical abilities. If you are confident in all of those, I'd say go for it too👍
The 415 and the 425/445 the only parts they share is a cab the rest of the machine is completely different.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Timbco 415ex??
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2021, 09:39:22 AM »
This is more Valmet/Komatsu than a old timbco. Sisu engine and I believe all Komatsu undercarried. Itís been ALL resealed some new hoses. Paperwork on engine 3-4 years ago. Newer undercarriage. All mechanics notes and manuals. Only thing Iím not to happy with now, and didnít notice until Friday,  is the main boom has been welded and plated up where the jib boom pins on. Iím going to lay the boom down Monday and see what kind of a job was done. But some weld on a old machine will be enviable. 


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