CB with lots of smoke when windy

[AsaG]

I am glad I was able to walk throught this with you
and I hope that I helped you with it.

Not real sure you were much help there leonz 'ol buddy! A block chimney? And raising the boilers elevation?

Sam-tip, I believe you are on the right track. My gasser will smoke once in a while, but it's usually when my wood gets a bit too dry, like less than 15%. That might be something you could check out too.

I've installed a "flap" on my blower that I control with a Love controller and a "J" thermocouple that is in the final pass of my exhaust. I did it to lower my EGT's more than anything, but the by-product ended up being less smoke.

It lowered the btu output of my boiler by about 20%, but my boiler is extreme overkill for my home anyway.

It also improved my efficiency about 5%.

To a cure problem much like sam-tip's, I used a damper "flap" from a fan kit for a Classic boiler.  I had enough time to ask about his reaction chamber temps but didn't have a chance to discuss further until now.  At any rate, it took some time to figure out the "sweet spot" setting for windy and cold.  Had thought about making the blower variable speed but never got around to it.  Automating the damper flap is an brilliant option I hadn't really considered.  Are you using a solenoid to move the flap or some sort of small gear-motor?  Looks like a solenoid and spring to return would work okay. 

[boilerman101]

I'm in my 3rd season with my E2400 and don't think you are on the right track.
Granted I have only 2 four ft extensions on my furnace, but it sits within 10 ft of tall trees on the the back side of it.
The pics you posted show you definately have a down draft going on, pushing emission down but I would think the postive fan draft should not allow this to be a huge effect on how boiler runs. Your 600 degree reaction chamber temps are low. Mine reaches 1,000-1,200 degrees most every cycle. You need 750+ before it even goes into high burn which allows more air to be blown down through the air charge tube into the reaction chamber. When this takes place, my stack turns clear and no smoke. Sounds like you are not getting good gassification. I have found air flow and a coal bed that covers over the air charge tube by about 2-3 inches is crucial for good operation and gives me highest reaction chamber temps. I use the poker rod through coals every time before I load and rub along the left and right side of the air charge tube. Empty reaction chamber when it gets half full. Make sure the thermocouple temp probe is fully extended...about 2 inches. I have pushed mine up the feeder tube before with only about 1/4 inch extruding. Did not burn right until I found it. Confirm exchange tubes and chimney tee area are clear. I don't use a spark arrestor as they plug up. Confirm your primary intake tube and elbow are not obstructed with creosote. I can't imagine any need to play with intake covers or fan sizes. I'm sure CB has put hours of test stand time with furnace hooked up to electronic metering devices to come up with fan size and air distribution. If your not getting reaction chamber temps over 750 and going into high burn, one of the items I've listed has to be the problem, from my experience. Good luck and hope this helps.

[martyinmi]

To a cure problem much like sam-tip's, I used a damper "flap" from a fan kit for a Classic boiler.  I had enough time to ask about his reaction chamber temps but didn't have a chance to discuss further until now.  At any rate, it took some time to figure out the "sweet spot" setting for windy and cold.  Had thought about making the blower variable speed but never got around to it.  Automating the damper flap is an brilliant option I hadn't really considered.  Are you using a solenoid to move the flap or some sort of small gear-motor?  Looks like a solenoid and spring to return would work okay.

I am using a solenoid(Graingers- for a washing machine 5-10 lb pull I think) to pull it closed when my EGT's reach 290 degrees, and a spring keeps it in it's normally open position the rest of the time. I have a 15 degree differential programmed into the controller, so when the EGT's get back down to 275 degrees, power is cut to the solenoid and it allows the flap to open and the EGT's will slowly rise again.
The reason I installed the probe and controller was to simply keep EGT's in check. My temps averaged around 290-320* after a cleaning, but they would sometimes climb up as high as plus 450* if I'd go a few weeks without cleaning. That just seemed to be a huge heat loss to me.
One of the other sites that I'm a member of has a few hvac guys that maintain that for every 25* one lowers his EGT's, you gain roughly 1% in added efficiency.
An added bonus to the additions ended up being much less "huffing"(or backdraft if you prefer). In fact I've only seen it "huff" once or twice since the install.

[sam-tip]

Just checked the moisture content of the curent pallet of wood.  I was getting 9 to 15% moisture.  It was very dry last summer with lots of sun.  Then stored inside the barn before the rains came.

[Ohiowood]

Have to agree with boilerman. 

[AsaG]

I am using a solenoid(Graingers- for a washing machine 5-10 lb pull I think) to pull it closed when my EGT's reach 290 degrees, and a spring keeps it in it's normally open position the rest of the time. I have a 15 degree differential programmed into the controller, so when the EGT's get back down to 275 degrees, power is cut to the solenoid and it allows the flap to open and the EGT's will slowly rise again.
The reason I installed the probe and controller was to simply keep EGT's in check. My temps averaged around 290-320* after a cleaning, but they would sometimes climb up as high as plus 450* if I'd go a few weeks without cleaning. That just seemed to be a huge heat loss to me.
One of the other sites that I'm a member of has a few hvac guys that maintain that for every 25* one lowers his EGT's, you gain roughly 1% in added efficiency.
An added bonus to the additions ended up being much less "huffing"(or backdraft if you prefer). In fact I've only seen it "huff" once or twice since the install.

Interesting and thanks for the thorough writeup. 

Somewhere around here, left over from a previous data gathering attempt, I have a clean out cap with a thermocouple installed in it.  I'll monitor and plot my EGT versus reaction chamber temps to see what is going on.  When I noticed my 2400 smoking like the picture sam-tip posted, it was very windy and I was heating the shop floor.  The boiler had a good heating load for around six hours.  What caught my attention was the rhythmical sound of the "high burn" or "stage 3" solenoid coming on and dropping out.  The reaction chamber temp was vacillating between a low of ~740 and a high of ~760 every 45 seconds.  This went on for nearly an hour before I began to investigate.  By pure accident, my handkerchief fell out of my shirt pocket and the fan sucked it onto the intake screen; blocking about 1/3 of it.  Within a few seconds the stack went completely clear and the reaction chamber temp shot up to 1000+ degrees.  Like what sam-tip reports, my wood is also very dry, usually <18%.  Currently, the "flap" is open fully, the local temp is 22°F, the wind is out of the SSE at 12-15 mph, the reaction chamber is running a solid 1100+ and not a hint of smoke anywhere.  Since I have no neighbors within two miles, the bit of smoking isn't a huge deal but I like to get all of the usable heat possible out of each load.  I also like to know why things do what they do and have a little "mad scientist" thing going.  :P Drives the better half completely up the wall!  :D

[boilerman101]

Asa, I have seen my E2400 drop in and out of high burn as well running from 680 - 800, teetering on both sides of 750. CB tech told me this happens when furnace combustion can't handle the extra "high burn" air injected when reaction chamber goes over 750 and the 3rd solenoid opens, throwing more air into the air charge tube and down into the reaction chamber. The combustion rate is not strong enough to handle that extra air, so it kind of  floods it out like a carborator. I have seen it happen the first couple of burn cycles after a loading...if my coal bed is not adaquet....if coal bed is too deep...or if I am burning higher moisture content wood. Remember the thermocouple does not sit in the flame but near reaction chamber door, under heat exchangers. 90% of my burn cycles reach 1,000-1,200 degree reaction chamber temps....When your hankerchief dropped over the fan, it reduced the air and quit "air flooding" the chamber out. I still say the Eclassics are all about correct coal bed depth and airflow in, down and out. When done right, you get 1,000+ degree reaction chamber temps and a clear burning stack. At least that is my experience over the last 3 years.

[martyinmi]

Just checked the moisture content of the curent pallet of wood.  I was getting 9 to 15% moisture.  It was very dry last summer with lots of sun.  Then stored inside the barn before the rains came.

Ideal moisture content for a gasser is somewhere between 16% and 24%, and I believe you'll find that yours will function the best at around 18-19%. Because of my gasser's inherent design,it seems to like prefer wood with a slightly higher mc(at 20% 0r so). If yours is less than 15%, it is definitely part of the problem. The moisture in the wood is what your boiler relies on to control how much fuel is released. Too much fuel released results in a "rich condition", similar to running your chainsaw with the choke partially on.

Keep us all posted. This is an interesting thread.

As an experiment, try randomly mixing one fill at a about 1/3rd wet wood with 2/3rds dry wood ratio and see what happens.

[superwd6]

10 minutes to figure out how to load a photo >:(. Anyway, hope this helps. It's the chimney cover that came with my 2300 ,cut hole and insert oil furnace draft regulator. Working great for 9 months now after installing it during pool season last year. I could'nt stand seeing all that heat go up yhe chimney while on High fire :D

[beenthere]

super
You have a couple three of them in your gallery. Next step... ;D
Go back to your post and click on "modify".
Now just click on the blue highlighted line below this window and go to your pic, then when it enlarges SCROLL down to where you see how to load it.  The trick is to scroll down on that page.
Click on "Preview" to see what you have before clicking on "Post".

[superwd6]

 

  It's on an album in here somewhere if anybody else can find it >:( >:( >:( smiley_chop smiley_chop walking away before the axe hits this computer ??? Yay, Thanks for the help beenthere.;D My 2300 is an wood only model that just opens both solenoids @ the same time (no fire star control) so chimney draft makes more difference. I get way less pulsating (rumble and shaking ) with this mod. I use no cap to let smoke go staight up and rain water always drains out of the stove not in. Central boiler must've made it this way

[Logging logginglogging]

I dont understand how that helps? I have never had shaking and rumbling from my 2300? what was causeing that?

[doctorb]

Have to agree with boilerman.

X 2.

[superwd6]

I do think the smoke is caused by the usual problems but Don't tell me anything with a chimney is balanced flue!You're thinking of a gas furnace where it's air intake is in the same Pressure zone as it's exhaust (the same wall or roof). The chimney high, and blower on the ground WILL at times have more draft than the rating plate on my boiler.   Mine states -.01 to -.03 draft "unsafe to operate higher than -.05", to much draft can potentially pull the flame off, if the rest of the furnace isn't set right to begin with.Ever see an oil furnace? they have fan blowers just like the E-Classic .To much draft can creat burning problems as it pulls air into the fan creating high stack temps and poor efficiency. If you're sure it's a downdraft all you have to do is open the chimney cleanout slowly while it's smoking and see if you get a face full. The firestar controller dictates it will work different from my wood only model as I think solenoids can operate individually

[superwd6]

I dont understand how that helps? I have never had shaking and rumbling from my 2300? what was causeing that?

When heating pool in the summer with dry spruse it can rumble as it starves for air with to big of fire.The draft reg seems to make the boiler more consistant. Mine , not yours. Make youre own choices

[sam-tip]

  It's on an album in here somewhere if anybody else can find it >:( >:( >:( smiley_chop smiley_chop walking away before the axe hits this computer ??? Yay, Thanks for the help beenthere.;D My 2300 is an wood only model that just opens both solenoids @ the same time (no fire star control) so chimney draft makes more difference. I get way less pulsating (rumble and shaking ) with this mod. I use no cap to let smoke go staight up and rain water always drains out of the stove not in. Central boiler must've made it this way

Just installed my draft control yesterday.  Not very windy yet.  CB says I should remove my rain cap.  But we just got soaked with rain today.  I think the winds will be 35 mph tomorrow.