I have a friend that's been asking an awful lot about what I can do with my mill. It turns out he is thinking about hiring me to saw out some lumber for him to build a hunting cabin on a remote property he owns. He is really hoping to have the material sawed from the pine, spruce and hemlock he has on the property.
As I said it would be a hunting camp, not a MacMention. It would be sided with cedar shingles on the outside, but I forgot to ask how he plans on finishing the inside. For all I know it might be rough lumber.
The thing is my friend is not the sit-on-his-hads kind of guy and told me he could not look at the stack of lumber sitting there until next year. I would like to know if there are any possible issues, warnings, hazards to this idea? Possible ways to compensate, or techniques to use in the framing? If this is an absolutely bad idea, how long should the 2x lumber air dry if there is a minimum?
My friend has lots of building experience (two complete houses and a number of remodels), but he always used KD lumber from the box stores.
Please share your opinion on this. I would love to be able to say I cut the lumber for his cabin. ;D
We built one in the backyard almost as the wood came off the saw. Sometimes the logs were trees the week before they became cabin parts. Including the red pine siding. As we took it off the mill and carried it to the cabin and put it up.
Here is the old topic we put up.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,14094.200.html
Here are some photos of the cabin on the site I put together when we were thinking about selling our home about three years ago as well.
www.forestryforum.com/ourhome/guesthouse.htm
We've never had any issues building the way we did. Worked for us.
(https://forestryforum.com/ourhome/guesthouse/images/DSC08989.jpg)
I did the same on my house. It might make a little noise now and then but I kind of like that.
I have built a few barns and out buildings with hemlock right off the mill. Hemlock wont split when you drive a nail in it if it is green. The pine boards will shrink but if you board and batters you shouldn't have an issue.
Saw it one day build the next.... Steve
I have put up a lot of structures over the years with fresh sawn lumber.They are all still fully functional.
It will be a lot of fun,satisfying and have a lot of character.The shingles on the outside over rough board sheathing is a good idea.
If your friend is a builder, then this should pose no issue at all. Use the methods for green building, and this cabin will witness lots of harvest, and good times, I say go for it, david
When I asked about building with green lumber someone suggest buying and book. I found and old copy of this one on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0882662503/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all
Looks like the price went up a little but it is a very informative book.
matt
Its better to build with all green, not some dry some wet, at least it will all shrink together.I've built with wood so green if you miss the nail head it will squirt in your face. Frank C.
I nailed up B&B on a number of the interior walls in our cabin with green-right off the mill-SYP. Some shrinkage, and some sap running out, but I'm pleased with it.
The storage of lumber not on stickers can develop blue stain, heavy mold and even decay when stored over the summer. Also, any insects could have a big party. So, as mentioned, use it right after sawing (do not use logs from dead trees), or stack it properly for air drying.
I would think nothing of building a cabin out of green lumber. But i would not want to insulate for a while. I don't know if you could insulate it this fall of not. I don't know if it would be all dry by than. I would be concerned about trapping in mosture with insulataion.
Thank you all for the quick responses. As I see it, this spells a good time for me. I'm pretty sure that Jeff's cabin is far nicer then the one I will partake in, but none the less it is very impressive.
You have to know, that I have been talking rural living (ie:wood, gardens and hunting) with this fellow for a dozen years now and it would give me great satisfaction to be able to saw for him. Some people like to hunt and some live for it. My friend is in the later category and I know this would mean a lot to him. For sure I will suggest to sticker the lumber to begin with, just in case he gets busy with other things. I will be very happy to pass along the input you guys gave, and will let you know if the cabin is built before this hunting season.
Quote from: thecfarm on July 03, 2013, 10:35:39 PM
I would think nothing of building a cabin out of green lumber. But i would not want to insulate for a while. I don't know if you could insulate it this fall of not. I don't know if it would be all dry by than. I would be concerned about trapping in mosture with insulataion.
So. You are saying to put off insulation - if intended - until next year? I don't think it would be a problem. I will be sure to mention that as well.
I have no idea about the drying part. I was just saying I would be concerned. But others should know more about the drying part than me. I do know one thing. I had some white pine that was stickered all summer. I cut them in the spring.I put them on the roof in late fall and they still shrunk some. I had the boards touching. They don't touch no more.
QuoteSo. You are saying to put off insulation - if intended - until next year? I don't think it would be a problem. I will be sure to mention that as well.
Basically yes. You can frame up the building, put the roof and exterior cladding on it, get it weather tight, and then wait for things to dry out.
But if you seal up that green wood in an insulated, damp proof barrier, type of scenario, and trap that moisture inside the wall cavity, then you are asking for a mushroom farm to develop inside the wall.
If you allow the wood to dry out in place, then it's fine to come back later and add the insulation and interior cladding. Main place you will see shrinkage is in the wide boards, like weather-boards and flooring. So make sure you use techniques that allow for the shrinkage to occur.
If you aren't using the wood within days of sawing, then put it on stickers. It will start drying there, but not a big issue if you don't get to it for a few weeks. Otherwise, if it's dead stacked you may be back to the mushroom farm scenario. :o
Ian
I can only think of one real negative when building with green lumber. I built an etire house out of rough sawn. green lumber.
That was accomplished during Spring and Summer. The following Fall and Winter while enjoying my wood stove and freshly painted drywall. I think screws help some but can still be popped. Go for it.
I built with Spruce, White Pine and Balsam studs. I don't like spruce 2 X 4's because so many twist. Seems to me it makes pretty good 1"sheeting and bigger lumber like 2 X 8's where I did not notice the twist so much
rimshot
Quote from: GDinMaine on July 03, 2013, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on July 03, 2013, 10:35:39 PM
I would think nothing of building a cabin out of green lumber. But i would not want to insulate for a while. I don't know if you could insulate it this fall of not. I don't know if it would be all dry by than. I would be concerned about trapping in mosture with insulataion.
So. You are saying to put off insulation - if intended - until next year? I don't think it would be a problem. I will be sure to mention that as well.
Ray has an excellent point
but this is a
hunting camp, the only thing that should have insulation in it are your boots and your sleeping bag! ;) ;D :)
Sounds like a cool project GD.
JM
At the pace that I build stuff, the lumber is completely dry by the time I'm finished! :D
I've built a whole farm out of green lumber, no problems. Just account for shrinkage in the joints and siding.
YH
Quote from: YellowHammer on July 04, 2013, 11:46:09 AMJust account for shrinkage in the joints and siding.
YH
Thanks for the input guys. I have been hoping to tell my friend about your responses but he is probably off fishing some place with no phone or such gizmos.
I'm by no means a builder so excuse the question. How do you account for shrinkage in joints and siding and any other important places?
QuoteHow do you account for shrinkage in joints and siding and any other important places?
Main issue will be siding, where you will get noticeable shrinkage in the wide boards. Important thing here is to only nail on one place on the board. If you take a 12" green board, and nail down both sides of it, it will soon turn into a 11 & 1/2" board. Something's going to give if both sides are nailed down.
For example, if you use board and batten, you nail the boards in the middle, and nail the battens over the gap so those nails aren't holding the main boards. Now your wide boards are free to shrink, and the gap that opens up is covered by the batten. So the boards don't split and nails aren't pulled out or any other grief like that.
It's methods like that that let you use green wood.
Ian
Traditional timber building here is almost exclusively green framed... but then if you've ever tried to drive a nail into seasoned eucalypt hardwoods you'd know why.
As mentioned joints have to be built to allow for shrinkage. Wood shrinks more tangentally then radially, so you joint to allow for that... ie keep them nice and tight when green, and as much as possible try and avoid a mix of backsawn and quartersawn lumber in the same parts... you dont want some rafters shrinking by 8% with some others between them shrinking by 2% for example. If they all shrink by 8% more or less, it doesn't make a lot of difference to the roof.
Backsawn is generally better in terms of nail holding ability as it dries and shifts.
what if you put black roofing paper up first then wall paneling over it.After it shrinks a bit you would have a nice contrast between the wood and the black strip.just a thought.
Slider, you will also have another layer to block air infiltration. That boils down to being warmer in the winter.
Slider, this is exactly how one customer does his, 16# felt then sides, it looks pretty good, david
what about insects in the wood???? :-\
The bugs that attack green wood are different from the ones that will infest dry wood.
So any bug that is in the green wood is either going to mature and fly away, looking for more green wood, or die as the wood dries out.
Now you could still get an infestation of the dry wood species, once the wood is dry. But that's exactly the same as if the wood was kiln dried first.
Ian
My thought on this always boils down to what did the pilgrim's do? wait for everything to be perfect? they knew how to chink and live, green is green, and dry is dry, techniques for both, one must know the differences and make the adjustments, just the way it is, david