Will I ever use all of my 47 hp ?

[JVK]

Hi, I am a new member, have been reading this forum for years and because of that I bought a brand new LT50 with the big diesel engine. This is one nice machine! 26 hrs on the meter and still getting used to all the buttons and knobs.

I have used a manual band mill, 13 hp for 10 yrs with 30' of track, cutting WRC and D-FIR for my waterfront construction business on the West Coast of Vancouver island. Just finished milling 17 - 30' cedar 12 x 12 for a new boathouse I am building. ( all on the manual mill )

With the manual mill I can "feel" my way thru a cut, slow the feed on the wide cuts and speed up on the narrow cuts. The object is to maximize the hp and feed speed and get perfect lumber in the end.

Fire up this 47 hp Yanmar and I can't tell what is happening in the cut. I know I'll get used to my new mill and think later this first post was silly, but what do you big hp guys look for and listen for when cutting bigger logs and wide cuts? I have been practicing on some smaller Yellow cedar and Red cedar and getting wavy cuts. You can't bog this engine down, so it is hard know if I'm going to fast or slow. The blade tension drops so it sort of cancels out the benefits of more hp.    Jim

[Migal]

Spose its lot like moving up from a push mower to a ridder!!! Im sure you will get the feel maybe you need bigger logs to practice on?  8)

[Bill Gaiche]

Welcome and just enjoy listening to all those ponies. bg

[thecfarm]

JVK,That is one nice mill!!! Even though I am some jealous of your mill I will still welcome you to the forum.  ;D

[ladylake]

 
Running 1-1/4" bands my 30hp diesel is a good match they start cutting crooked about the same time the engine lugs down.   Steve

[Bibbyman]

Welcome to the Forum!

We have an LT40 Super with 25hp 3 Ph that should about equate to your 47hp engine. I find I tend to watch the blade as it comes out the side of the log to see if it is rising or dipping. Also the sound of the blade pushing back against the shoulder of the guide rollers. With an engine you may not be able to hear this.

[Chuck White]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum and Congratulations on the mill.

That is a very nice sawmill.

I like to listen to the noise the blade is making while it's going through the cut and I also watch the sawdust between the cant and the blade guide roller.
If the blade fluctuates during the cut, the angle the sawdust is going will change.

[two tired]

the sound of the engine, sound of the blade and the feel of the mill, it grows on you in time. the more you use the mill the better you know the sound and feel of the machine and welcome to the forum.

[slider]

jvk you mentioned the blade tension dropping ,how much ? you have me curious . on my 70 i run about 76 to 78 lbs in the bladder or air bag before engaging the handle .i adjust for 80 lbs on the gauge .i saw from the rear so i cant see if the gauge drops when i'm sawing.not having problems so far.i will look this weekend.like you i went from a 24 horse to 62 hp diesel big change.good luck  al

[JVK]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the welcome and replies to my first post. This site is a good one and you do a great job. I always said I would have liked to have met Tom. I really miss his writing. Bibbyman, your info on programing Accuset was so timely. I took to it right away. Thank You.

My question about the power to me seems valid. Is big power only usable with a sharp blade? Put a razor sharp blade that is set perfectly and the sound it makes as it enters the log for the first time is wonderful. Just the nature of things, the blade slowly dulls and if you push to hard the blade warms up, tension drops and bad things happen. To keep from roller coaster cuts you slow the forward feed, meanwhile the big diesel is roaring away and not being used.

The answer from WM to me was that East Coast hardwoods would use all of the 47 hp as it is very dense. Our Coastal wood out West is soft and the blade somewhat tears as it is cutting. I'm going to try some differant blades from WM to see what works for the wood I have.

I like to maximize the tools I use and I know I'll get this mill cruising nicely. When I got my new 8000 lb forklift there I was trying to pick up the 10,000 lb log! It's all fun.  Jim

[customsawyer]

First off I would like to welcome you to the forum. Next I would like to ask what blade you are using? When you get to cutting with some HP behind the blade it offers some forgiveness for some problems while it creates other problems. First off with that much HP I would recommend that you use at least a .055X 1 ¼" blade. If you are cutting all soft wood you might want to try the 13° blade that WM offers. If you are cutting a mix of hardwood ( this could be as simple as soft wood logs with lots of knots.) and soft wood logs then I would go to the 10° blade. If you are cutting mostly hardwood then I would lean toward the 7° or 4° blade. All of these blades have advantages and disadvantages depending on what you are cutting. I do think that you get better results with thicker body blades when you step up in HP.

[Peter Drouin]

Welcome to the FF. I have a LT 40 super with a 51 horse cat and use 11/4x 55  7s on all wood hard and soft ,and have good luck, when I first put on a blade and tighten it to 2500 to 3000, I have the screw in type, Ill make 4 or 5 cuts and the blade will loosen a little [settle in]  then Ill just tighten it right up . and me and the saw are one :D :D ;D 8) good luck

[Brucer]

Hi, Jim. Welcome.

What are you using for blade lube? I find even with 28 HP my blades will get hot in WRC. As soon as the tension starts to drop I increase the lube rate to cool the blade. It works well as long as the blade isn't too dull.

When I tried out the stellite blades I also used the recommended mix of 12 oz of liquid dish soap and 12 oz of vegetable oil in a full 4 gallon tank of water. I spoke directly to the main guru at Wood-Mizer blades and he mentioned in passing that the teeth tended to tear away wood fibres that would keep them from cutting cleanly.

You might want to try one of those solutions if you aren't already.

[YellowHammer]

I had the exact same problem when I went from a 15 hp gas powered manual mill to a 35 hp diesel LT40 hydraulic.  I lost all feel of the log and what the saw was doing, and never got the saw to load up without cutting waves.  The solution to the problem was a combination of what everyone is saying here.  Here's what solved my problem.
1.  Saw alignment and adjustment-even though my saw only had a few hours, it needed to be dialed in, blade guides, main drive belt tension, and most of all, the main head chain up/down tension.  Mine had about 1/8" play, letting my saw head wander under load.
2.  Blade Selection - optimize your blade for the wood you are sawing.  I tried several combinations of set and thickness before I got it right.  Woodmizer guys were very helpful here.
3. Blade Lube - my old homegrown blade recipe wouldn't stand up to the stress.  Now I use John Deere Cotton Picker spindle cleaner and it outperforms anything else I've tried by a wide margin.  I judge it's effectiveness by blade pressure drop and blade cleanliness. If your blade pressure drops, its because your blade is stretching due to getting warm or hot.  The better lube will keep it cool and cleaner than the less effective lube at the same loading, and you can measure/compare effectiveness by the blade pressure rate of change.  Less change means cooler blade means you can cut faster.
4. Sawdust Rooster Tail - as been said, look at the sawdust or rooster tail coming out of the gullet of the blade as it immediately exits the log.  Use the the rooster tail like a needle indicator on a gauge.  If it is steady, then the blade is cutting steady, if it moves or twitches up or down, then the blade is wandering. This is where you find your max feed rate of the blade, if you are not limited by engine horsepower or blade temperature.

Using these techniques I went from sawing waves with my diesel barely loaded, to it now humming fully loaded sawing straight boards.

I'm still learning, but these adjustments made a world of difference for me.

YH

[JVK]

I bought one box of 1 1/2" X 10 degree .050 and a box of stellite to go to school on. I just received a couple 13 dregree x 1 1/2" .045 and some 1 1/4" to try. This is a nice mill, but it is all about the blade! I cut only WRC and D-Fir and looking foward to finding what works for me. I have'nt tried the stellite yet as they are pricey and I'm still learning about backstops etc.

I've never used lube on my manual mill except for a touch of diesel to get pitch off. The LT50 has the lube tank so I use a bit of water and soap.

I was advised to stay away from the .055 thick blades because of early breakage problems from the 19" wheels. I use WM .042 x 10 degree blades on the manual mill 1 1/4" wide with good results.

When I find the right blade and put a few more hours on the mill I'll put my 12' extension on. I have some big timber to cut and everyone likes their 24'  2 x 12s around here.

[JVK]

Hi Yellowhammer. I think you know just what I am going thru. I was hoping a complete sawmill alignment could be avoided as there is so much to soak in at first. I'll check those things you pointed out and see about the blade lube you use.  Jim

[Brucer]

You won't have to worry about pitch with WRC  :D but you may find the blade gets hot in the heartwood -- especially on the wide cuts.

"Good" Douglas-Fir doesn't usually have pitch issues but you can't depend on it. By "good" I mean stuff with no wind shake and no pitch pockets.

With those two species I prefer to use just water with enough windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing. In your location you'll probably only have to buy a jug of WW fluid every couple of years :D. You might try the soap/cooking oil/water emulsion idea to see if it helps. I only use it with the stellite blades because it leaves a thin film of oil over most of the carriage and saw head :(.

The alignment issue that is most likely to create waves is when the blade is not perfectly parallel to the bed. One other alignment problem that can make your blade wander is the horizontal blade guide alignment. The adjustments for these are covered under the Routine Alignment Procedure in the sections on vertical and horizontal tilt alignment.

[JVK]

Thanks for the good replies. I feel better about everthing now. I'ts really up to me to find the right combination of blade, set and alignment for the wood I cut and get the most out of this big diesel. I have been adjusting the routine blade alignment as per the manual quite a bit, mostly because of operator error. Picture this.... Accuset, the new mill with all those switchs and levers and me at the controls. It goes pretty good for a while and I'm thinking nothing to this, then BLAM hit the down saw head switch thinking it was the reverse lever and we get to put on a new blade and check the adjustments.

My question on this post is not the only reason I started to write. I stumbled onto this site in 2006 and all you guys taught me to saw wood better, faster and I learned about a lot of things relating to this subject. I found out about Swing Mills and after three years I had to have one. I read everything on this forum that had swing mill in it. Phoned the factory in NZ made out my wish list, got a quote but I had to see one in person. After a demo I realized it wasn't for me. If I can suggest one thing, that would be to see the mill you want to buy operate in real life. I have three logrites now. How would I know about those if it was'nt for this site?

The last couple years I settled on the LT40 and read all about those. I watched one work and made the call. The 50 was on sale for the same price as the 40 super, added on all the goodies and here I am thanking all of you and this forum for all the fun I'm about to have.   Jim

[Migal]

 8) I just purchased a 34 hp Cat diesel Log Master sure is hard to hear it bog down But Herman was sure to inform me to stay in the cut and not to linger but don't push it I Love my new mill now that it is on my property safe and sound. Migal :D

[JVK]

Hey Migal,

You were the first one to respond to my first post so I just had to say GOOD GOING!! I looked at your new mill on line and you are going to enjoy that Log Master. It is the LM 2 right? I always said Christmas is more than once a year!   Jim

[Migal]

  Yes Jim its the LM2 with CAT 34 option been sawing all afternoon getting the feel for her still on original blade so that might be a good sign its most definitely a machine sure am glad I got the Hydraulics too so far! 8)   Migal

[Ohio_Bill]

JVK, I know how you feel about the down lever trick. I did the same thing and got to do some repair work on the mill.

[JVK]

Things are getting better lately. Cut up a big WRC and no waves. Untill recently I have'nt been using the debarker because I've never used one and it was just another couple of switches to get used to. So since I'm the big sawmill guy now I put her on line and started to get used to the sequence of operation. Swing the blade into the log, make the cut, swing out at the end of the log, return carriage and repeat. Pretty easy right? Well, I found the auto down on the Accuset handy and with a stack of 2" slabs left on the log I would raise the sawhead up past the stack at the end of the cut, return carriage back and auto down to the next cut. I did'nt swing the debarker out far enough and the debarker blade caught the top right corner of my stack of slabs, auto set is taking i'ts trip down to the next cut and MAN! what is happening? I knew all about the band blade thing from earlier so my reaction time was slow trying to figure out what was going on. I have a bent debarker arm now and is totally unusable. I called WM and they said " you did what?" I will not be using the board return for a long time- more switches. Did I tell you I got the wireless remote? That should be fun!    Jim

[Migal]

" you did what?"  >:( wireless  eh eh now you wont even have to be close enough to see the debarker getting bent  8) or maybe just close enough to see it first hand  :

[Bibbyman]

I'm with WM on the bent debarker arm.  We have been sawing on our LT40 for 10 years and over 5,000 hours and I assure you I've had every kind of mishap with the debarker any person could have 10 times over and never damaged the frame.  I've only replaced the blade (a number of times) and the lower bearing once.  Are you sure you didn't just knock it out of adjustment?