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wide slab mill choice

Started by sixteenacrewood, February 16, 2010, 08:48:24 AM

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sixteenacrewood

hi everyone, i have been reading this forum for a year or more and the education has been of great value, thanks.
i am finally going to buy or build a mill and i would appreciate some input.
first off, i am a woodworker and carpenter and my main need for a mill is to produce extra wide slabs for furniture. i have 2 friends with mills that cut dimension lumber for me at a better than reasonable price.
i have 16 acres of mature hardwoods and i get large trees from two tree services.
and, don't laugh, for the last 4 years i have been freehand milling my furniture wood with a husky 455, 20in bar, brutal but effective.

due to the limits of my friends mills and my caveman style freehand milling i am leaning toward building a procut chainsaw mill. i want a 4-5 foot wide capacity and a 16 foot length of cut. i would like to power it with a 20-25hp 4 stroke.

keep in mind i am less concerned with high production rates than cutting specialty extra wide slabs from select trees/logs.

most of the wood i need for furniture is less than 7 feet in length.
i have looked at the dedicated wide slab mills but i can't even come close to affording one
i also have a crude solar kiln and will build a nicer one later this year

i am not realy sure what my question is other than"am i crazy?" but i already know the answer to that one

1.does anyone know of a post or website from someone who has built a mill like this?

2.what exactly is a harvester sproket?

3.is there a safe maximum width for a procut style chainsaw mill?

4.is there another mill type that can cut 4-5 ft width without spending 14-24k

thanks in advance for any help, and sorry for the long post.
stephen

Magicman

Welcome to The Forestry Forum...... 8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

islandlogger

I did a awful lot of chainsaw milling in my early years before I upgraded, but to this day when I want to cut some nice slabs off I still pull out the Alaskan Mill. You can get them in all sizes, they are portable and they for sure cost less then a Mill. There are other options/styles as well, the Logosol sponser has some Chainsaw Mill options (hit the link to the left of the page) and I think even Jonsered has some sort of unit for Chainsaw Milling as well. I have seen several folks in this forum that have built some very nice looking units....so look into all your options and see what fits the bill best for you and your needs!!

Luck

islandlogger

Hilltop366

Welcome

A harvester sprocket is a drive sprocket for the cutting chain same as a chain saw, The advantages of using one over a chainsaw sprocket for a home built csm with a 4 stroke motor is they are available with round centers with keyway which makes it a lot eaiser to make up a shaft, also they are larger than most chainsaw sprockets which lets you run a lower shaft speed while keeping a fast chain speed. You will like the extra power of a large 4 stroke and the electric start as well, but the alaskan type of mill might be the eaiser and cheaper way to go unless you have access to some cheap steel and junked lawn tractors.

Sprockets at Bailey's      http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?SKW=OR%20404%20SPROCKET&catID=10202

Cheers

Nomad

Hi 6TAW.  First, welcome to the forum!

     98% of my milling I do with a bandmill.  The other 2% is with an Alaskan.  I've got a Husky 3120 pulling a 5' bar.  With a ripping chain it cuts 4' plus with no problem, but it is SLOOOW.  Hard work, too!  The plus side is, on most wood it leaves a surface I'd almost expect from a planer.  For what it sounds like you want to do, I believe I'd go that route.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Ianab

Quote1.does anyone know of a post or website from someone who has built a mill like this?

Member Pitotshock is building a chainsaw slabbber at the moment, so you might want to check out his progress.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41080.40.html

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

sigidi

Stephen Welcome to the Forum - I'm a bit spoilt with having a Lucas slabber in two ways, no need to make something up and not down on my knees hanging onto a chainsaw. I have heaps of respect for fella's that slab with chainsaws they do some hard yards!!
Always willing to help - Allan

sixteenacrewood


pitotshock

First off, welcome to the board!

Quote
i am finally going to buy or build a mill and i would appreciate some input.
OK, but be careful what you ask for around here! You are falling into Alice's rabbit hole here and you might get addicted to building machinery.

Quote
i want a 4-5 foot wide capacity and a 16 foot length of cut. i would like to power it with a 20-25hp 4 stroke.

Sounds like a good set of requirements. Mine were similar, but smaller in width. I started with a free 16hp vertical shaft engine. If you are buying, the engine is going to be the major purchase here

Quote
1.does anyone know of a post or website from someone who has built a mill like this?

See the link to my build above. I have tried to capture all of the links that were from people doing this type of build. And Listen to Hilltop366. His 4 stroke CSM has been running for 10 years

Quote
2.what exactly is a harvester sproket?

This is the sprocket that powers the chain around the bar. Picture your chainsaw drive sprocket, but about 2.5" in diameter. It comes from the tree harvesting machines that use a hydraulically powered crosscut saw.

If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask!
Stihl MS361, Makita DCS340

Kelly Palmer

 Hello... I have a ten foot red oak trunk, about 20' in height and was needing a little advice. 
1. Is there any way of getting a Lucas high enough to start cutting at the top and working down?
2. If so.....or if I fall it....is it better to cut it up horizontally, like a loaf of bread?  {Thought of timeline tables or something.} 
3.  If so how thick do I need to try to cut the cross cut slabs?
4. How about drying....how long? 
5. I've heard of linseed/turpentine mixed will seal it up so it doesn't ever dry, and keeps it from splitting, is that true? 
6. I have the limbs already at my house and have been cutting them up with a homemade Alaskan type set up. It hasn't working all that well. {Stihl 038 twisted drive shaft, and went down} Some of the limbs are 48" and only have a 36" bar....{usually I can get a narrow side and cut them.}  I've been cutting them 3" for table tops; is that to thick, or about right?
7. Been cutting some long with the grain, and some away....any advice on which is more profitable?
8. As for marketing the little stuff, or the 12' around slabs, or tables...do the sell like hot cakes, or not so much???, And then the big question.... how much are they worth?

Nomad

     Hi Kelly.  First, welcome to the Forum. 
     To try to answer your questions.  It sounds like you really want to cut cookies from this standing trunk, not slabs?  (Cookies are cross cut; slabs are cut longitudinally.)
     There is no way I'd try to mount my Lucas to cut cookies from a standing 20' trunk.  Not on a bet.  Is it possible?  I'm sure it is.  But I wouldn't do it!
     I wouldn't cross cut it unless I knew I had a market for that many big cross cut pieces.  As to how thick to cut the cookies, that would be up to you.
     How long to dry the cookies?  Depends on how thick you cut them, 'cause the thinner ones will split first.  But in time they're all gonna split.
     I understand you can avoid that by treating the pieces in PEG.  I have no experience with that stuff.  Linseed oil and turpentine isn't going to get the job done.
     Slabs are going to be worth more than cookies, normally. 
     As for marketing red oak slabs, I have no idea.  I'm sure someone will come along who can address that issue.  Are you talking about a nice clear slow grown northern red oak, or one of the lower quality southern ones like water oak or it's cousins?
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Kelly Palmer

It'll be southern, and about 15' up it branches out, but it has been limbed.  PEG....where can u get it? I'll Google here in a sec...  it will keep it from splitting?

jueston

if you decide to go the PEG route, its important to understand the difference between the polyethylene glycol(PEG) for human consumption, like myralax, and the stuff with lower molecular weight, which is what you want... if you Google PEG 400 it will bring up lots of chemical warehouses, that's the stuff you want.

but unless you have a proven market, or you really want that cookie, it might not be worth the substantial price to accomplish drying the cookie without a crack....

beenthere

I'd caution using PEG.  I have considerable experience with it, and PEG 1000 is about the best molecular weight but even that takes considerable time, perfect conditions, and marginal results if it is cross sections in mind here.

Welcome to try it, but the solution needed for soaking a cross section is 50% by weight mix with water, and need enough to submerge the wood for 3-9 months.

PEG replaces with the water in the cell wall, and that takes time. When PEG is in the cell wall, the wall cannot shrink so the wood doesn't split. That is difficult to accomplish.

PEG 400 will mix with water easier, but will bleed back out of the wood near forever and is a pain to deal with.

Mole weights over 1000 are difficult to mix with water and keep in solution, as it is more of a solid at room temp than even the PEG 1000.

Just additional info. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

I would not attempt to answer any of your questions other than affirm that the cookies will check/crack/split, but I will say Welcome to the Forestry Forum.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Seaman

Sixteenacresandwood,
I am near Asheville with a Lucas slabber. You are welcome to come up anytime and push.....I mean study it if it will help in your planning. Gimme a call anytime.
Frank  828-442-7404
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

Kelly Palmer

I appreciate the welcome to come push/ look at it.  How wide is it?  Is there anyone that has one within a hundred miles of me?

fishpharmer

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Kelly Palmer

Stigler Okla, it is on the eastern side, half way up.

KS saw guy

Can anyone help me with some measurements for a 4 cycle csm? I'm wanting to run a 5 or six foot diameter log through it.

KS saw guy

I've built a band mill by myself, but this seems like a whole different critter.

terrifictimbersllc

Maybe arrange it so you can change pulley and belt sizes to alter speeds one way or the other after you get going. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

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