Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures

[Nebraska]

Looks good Brandon, that's putting $ in your pocket. Your son will be fired up.

[ManjiSann]

While waiting for the mud to dry... or just because this seems more fun to me  ;) I've begun work on flattening the Maple I free hand milled last June. Some of this is pretty rough, twisted due to my lack of jig and or cutting skill, wedge shaped, etc. The moisture meter is putting it at around 10% but that's just on the surface, not sure what it is inside. My plan is to flatten on face and one edge so I can run in through the table saw, cut it to roughly finished size, check the MC and go from there. I plan to stack and sticker it in my basement to hopefully finish the drying process as that's where it'll live in it's finished form as hopefully a reloading bench top.

The start of the journey:







As you can see, there's some variation on thickness and weird shaping in the stack



Built a temporary work bench in my toy room 



This one was already fairly flat but still needed work



Not perfect yet but getting close. Still need to flatten one of the edges as well.



Things I've learned so far. 

1. A Scrub Plane is an absolute must when flattening such rough boards, or at least a scrub plane blade in a short smoothing plane

2. The better the milling in the first place the less time it'll take to flatten and have a nice product

3. Hand planing is pretty physically demanding and blisters will happen

4. Carpal Tunnel is a drag

5. Sharpen blades frequently

6. Knots are a real bear to deal with, sharp plane blade is a must but even then it's not fun

7. Wax is your friend, a little wax on the plane sole and it'll glide like it's on bearings, seriously it's amazing the difference!

8. Shavings are almost as good as man glitter


I know what I want the end product to look like but I'm still working my way through the steps on how to get there. The bench top will be put together sort of like a hardwood floor with long sticks glued together in a staggered way to get the length I want. I'm trying to decide if I should do some sort of tongue and groove method or just glue flat sides to flat sides. Anyone got suggestions?

Brandon 

[doc henderson]

you will have to re-flatten after glued up. so you need a flat side to make you edge joints perpendicular to 1 plane. biscuits or dowels will keep edges from sliding as you clamp the glue up.

[ManjiSann]

I was thinking instead of biscuits or dowel pins I could do a tongue and groove on the edges that will glue up. I expect to have to flatten it again as I've never been able to get things to line up perfect. 

Just pondering the return on investment of time vs end product on the various methods.

Brandon 

[doc henderson]

tongue and groove is great but you sacrifice some material.  could cut two groves and use a spline.  even a strip of 1/4 inch ply.  could even make tight joints and not glue but make a top with joints held close, like a picnic table.  for reloading however, you do want the solid top.

[ManjiSann]

hmmm if I do the spline idea I could use a different type of wood/different color and the ends would be kinda decorative looking. Wish I had some dark black walnut or ebony. Something like that would really contrast and set off the whiteness of this maple.

Brandon 

[Old Greenhorn]

I don't suppose you know anybody with a jointer? If you could run your edges on that and then just glue and clamp you should be good to go and finish it up. I did that bar top back in august/September just that way. One of my test projects this winter is to try getting square edges with that hand power planer and trying the same glue up to see how true it comes out.
 Glad to see you are back at it. I should get my butt back in gear.

[ManjiSann]

I have a neighbor that has a woodshop and I'm sure I could borrow some time in it to use a jointer and thickness planer, so that's always an option. 

Right now I'm kinda just puttering in a general direction. I enjoy hand planing, good exercise and am currently of the mindset to see what I can do with the tools I have. I figure if I get one edge square and one face flat I can run the boards through the table saw and make 2x2's (or whatever dimension I finally decide.) I'm thinking this will allow me to do it with just what I have and I'm curious to see if I'm right. 

It's good to be back at it. When did your butt slip out of gear? I've been following your thread and you get more done sick in a day than I do feeling well in a week 

Brandon 

[mkngjoy]

On another note... sawdust accumulates so much faster than I expect. Went to empty the shopvac figuring it was about half full and saw this



It's never a good thing when the filter is so packed in it pops off the motor  : :  I have to give Rigid props, it was still sucking up dust even though it was so full.

I know that this quote is from a month ago - but I've been reading through your adventures... which parallel mine with CSM, except i started on some much bigger logs (a story for my own thread, someday).

One easy suggestion that I didn't see mentioned to help with the sawdust clogging the filters of your shop vac is to add a dust separator in between the shop vac and your tools - either an Oneida Dust Deputy (there's a diy kit that's not that expensive), or the "DustTopper" which is sold at HD, and snaps onto a orange bucket.

The benefit of either is that most of the from your tools dust will get stopped in the separator, which in turn saves the shop-vac filter from getting clogged, and the shop-vac will stay mostly empty. I've had a separator before my shop vac (and a vacuum bag in the shopvac) for 3 years and *never* had to change the filter, or replace the bag.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dustopper-High-Efficiency-Dust-Separator-12-in-Dia-with-2-5-in-Hose-36-in-Long-HD12/302643445

[ManjiSann]

mkngjoy, thanks for posting!  I think I'll be picking one of those up this weekend funds permitting.

I wish I had larger logs, or at least more of them. Fingers crossed that with the weather warming up a bit I can get a few more nice logs to cut!

Brandon 

[ManjiSann]

Woke up this morning to a bit of snow and a phone call that school was delayed a couple hours which means work is delayed a couple hours... kinda a mixed bag that one. So rather than go out and clear the walks I decided to catch up with my FF friends.  ;)

Been plugging away at planing the maple and either my skill is improving or I am just very lucky. The first few boards still had a wee bit of twist in them but as time has gone on I seem to be getting them flatter and flatter. I'm sure there is a faster way to do this but I'm in no hurry and I'm finding this to be excellent therapy time to work through the stuff life has been throwing at me lately... maybe shavings have the same magical properties as saw dust... @doc henderson is there any medicinal properties to wood shavings?  ;D ;D

Some of the boards have developed what I'm guessing is mold. Is this what is known as spalting?



Whatever it is I kinda like it. Gives it some personality I think.

I bought an inexpensive hand plane I could tinker with and not feel bad if I ruin it while trying to turn it into more of a scrub plane. It is complete, I just have it apart before I thought to take pics




Scribed a line to open the mouth up. I haven't hit the line yet and I may not open it up that much but it helps me ensure the mouth is file square.



The blade one the left is from one of my other planes where I had rounded it in a scrub plane profile. It's about a 8" circumference circle so nothing dramatic but it makes a huge difference in being able to take of a lot of wood in a short amount of time with minimal effort. The right blade is the one from the new to me plane, the marker is for grinding to the scrub plane profile. Takes a bit of work but not to bad and well worth it I think.



These boards have been flattened on one face and one edge. Progress!!!



Brandon

[Nebraska]

Some of the boards have developed what I'm guessing is mold. Is this what is known as spalting?

The fungal /bacterial entities  that attack wood to  break it down for their lunch leave a stain as they do their work. That stain they leave behind is what is referred to as spalting.
(Please correct me if I'm not right  FF brain trust)  
The mold on the suface of those boards  probably formed as it was initially drying in the basement because it was pretty wet when you brought it in. It may have also had some internal fungus because the tree was removed for a reason...  I think you would be able to prevent it from forming with a coat of solubor before you stack to dry. It helped my wet Ponderosa pine earlier when the weather warm outside. Probably should keep your mask on and protective eyewear when working it down,... which is a thing WE ALL should do any way present company included. For what it's worth my 2 cents.

[doc henderson]

looks great @ManjiSann .  I think you are having a great time.  It is my understanding that the "scrub plane"  is for roughing things out.  some will use "winding sticks"  to visualize the twist in the length of a board so it can be corrected.  my favorite resource for all things old fashioned is Roy Underhill and the Woodwrights' shop.  I know he had a guest that spoke of sharpening and use of various planes.  I like his style yet he is well versed in the history.  He had some affiliation with a university in the past and has a school for woodworkers now.  I will see if I can find that one for you.  Also I am not an expert on "mold" specific to wood so will ask @GeneWengert-WoodDoc to chime in.  there are all kinds of mold and subsequent "evidence" left behind.  spalting I think is more in sap wood and follow the grain to provide a great detail and many fine lines.  pine can get blue stain.  there is also black mold.  the health issues of most molds found in nature to humans is vastly overdone.  Yes you can develop and allergy to the mold spores if inhaled.  but does not affect many.  some in the western states (dig at California)  think it causes all sorts of disease including cancer.  I would be more concerned if sanding to a fine air born powder than making chips with a hand planer.  Using caution is ok, but I would not loose sleep over it.  most dry wood, the fungus is dead, but spores (like seeds) can live on.  much of the diseases are hypersensitivity developed by our immune system (like an allergy)

[doc henderson]

Hand Plane Essentials with Chris Schwarz | Season 37 Episode 5 | The Woodwright's Shop | PBS

[Ljohnsaw]

some in the western states (dig at California) think is causes all sorts of disease including cancer.

Nearly anything you buy out here has a "Prop. 65 Warning This product that is known to cause cancer in California"!  I'll have to look next time I'm in the grocery store to see if bottled water carries that warning,too ;)

[doc henderson]

I know the government there is the issue not the great people of the state.  thanks for taking it in the spirit intended @ljohnsaw   

[ManjiSann]

Thanks to FF Member BeenThere for pointing out I was missing a pic in the above post... corrected 

Doc, it's my understanding and also my process to use the scrub plane for when there's a lot of wood needing removal. Once it's roughed in then it's on to the other planes to smooth it out. One of these days I'll have to make some winding stick, for now I just use my 48" straight edge and my Mark 1 Eyeball and it seems to do the job. 

I'll have to check out the Woodwright's Shop episode, thanks for posting it!

I don't have an exact plan yet, at least not all the details but I feel like I'm heading in the general direction I want to go. Last night I picked up some of the Locust scraps and started planing one out with the hopes of making something to hang my hand planes on. I worry about them getting damaged in the current crazy mess. I'll post pics if it goes any further than just making a few shavings.

Brandon 

[mredden]

@ManjiSann That mold looks like plain old black mold that grows in moist places and can be dangerous to human health. Spalting is more of staining over a number of years in the wood rather than on the surface of the wood as appears over a short period of time.

When black mold appears on my boards, (I live in a very humid area) I spray it with vinegar and sand it while wet so I don't breathe the powdery spores. Then, I spray one more time and let it soak into the area to kill the spores below the surface. Vinegar doesn't stain the wood.

Vinegar is a magical substance with 1000 uses in woodworking, rust fighting and cleaning. Certainly safer than bleach. Actually more effective for mold killing.  Yes, it's an acid - but an edible one that's easy to neutralize with baking soda.

[ManjiSann]

Interesting info on Vinegar, thanks!

Brandon 

[ManjiSann]

Stopping to check out a tree on my way home from work that I may try and pick up tomorrow. Looks like it may have barber chaired when whomever felled it did their thing. Looks like siberian elm, or some sort of elm.

Will the barber chair damage the surrounding wood such that it wouldn't be any good for milling? Keep in mind my idea of milling is a lot smaller than many of y'alls  ;)  I'm wondering if the wood would have splintered due to the stresses?

I'm 100% fine with experimentation but I don't need more firewood if I can avoid it, if you catch my meaning  ;D

Thanks,

Brandon 

[doc henderson]

it might since there is an incomplete hinge, and it splits up the tree.  you can prob work with it and there is only one way to find out!  

[Nebraska]

I agree with Doc, it's worth a look at least. I bet you can find a home for some firewood around there any way.

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, worth a look for sure. The few barber chaired pieces I have worked with show that the split is the split and you can deal with that. Just think of it as half a log. But some folks that cut trees can make a real mess out of them if the thing doesn't come down when it splits. I believe we are all thinking the same thing. You never know what you are going to find when you look at it. ;D
 It's kind of like when I ran on the ambulance. I would hammer into all my newbies "the emergency you arrive at is almost never the one you were dispatched to". (i.e. You are dispatched to a 'difficulty breathing' and arrive to find a patient in full cardiac arrest.) Same with trees. A few weeks ago, a co-worker came to me in a panic, said she had a huge tree snap off and block her road, did I know anybody that could help her on short notice. "Hw big is this tree" I asked. She said '5 feet is diameter'. Yeah I did. My son was free. I went up a couple of hours later to see this 5 foot diameter tree. She was exactly wrong. The tree had two stems, each about 36" diameter, so together they were 6' in diameter, but the two stems were a bit easier to handle. A 2 hour cleanup and they were REALLY glad to have my cant hook and my 28" saw. ;D
 Nothing ventured....

[ManjiSann]

I was able to stop by after work last night to get the lay of the land as it were. Good looking tree. There's 3 main sections at least 15' long and not sure diameter but big enough to be worth the effort and small enough to be within my ability  8)  I'm no longer sure it was a barber chair split, it may have been a fork that when cut somehow parted. Doesn't really matter, the wood all looks good so hopefully in a few hours I'll be posting a pic of some new logs in my yard  ;D ;D  The homeowner told me another miller was looking at them and had said he'd be back last night or today to get them and the homeowner said first come first serve... hopefully I'll be the first 

One upside to the split, I already have one flat side  :D :D :D

Fired the Husky up last night, hadn't run it in a few months. I love fuel stablililzer and the ethanol free stuff, fired right up with only a couple more pulls than normal but nothing to worry about. Possibly dumb question but is it normal for a spark or two to come off the bar if the chain and bar are dry (ie clean and haven't had a chance for the bar oil to coat them yet?) It's a little above freezing here so I wonder if I need to be thinning the bar oil with kerosine or not?

Brandon 

[ManjiSann]

It took 5 hours or so, 3 trips (it was only a 10 min drive each way) but I have a whack of logs... or a whackette or whatever a baby whack of logs is  :D :D



They are each 4 feet or longer and my guestimate is 300lbs to 500lbs each (I should really measure and find a density chart and get a more scientific answer than "I think it's..."). I figure 10 logs and I think it's reasonable to estimate 2 tons. We loaded them on a dolly then hauled them out by man power. Started out with me and my friend and the homeowner. Got the first load and on the way to my house called another friend and he was kind enough to help out. Good thing too as we would have only been able to do that first load as we were already pretty wiped out. It was probably a 100 foot run from where we cut to the truck pulling the dolly. Anyway, our wrists and inner forearms are toast. I doubt I could open a soda bottle at the moment. Actually tried arm wrestling my 13yo boy and barely beat him left handed and it was a stale mate right handed. 

There were two other trees that were down, wish I could have taken them as well but I think my friends would have mutinied if I'd been foolhardy enough to suggest such a thing. Oh well. I figure this will take me several days of milling to get through. 

I have to remember there's metal in these trees. I saw one eye bolt that I avoided but missed seeing another and avoided cutting it by about half an inch   Oh well, I guess what I don't pay for in cash I'll pay for in chains. Glad I have that metal detector 

I won't use names out of respect for peoples privacy but I have to give a shout out to the home owner. What a nice guy, super helpful. He is of the older generation but he outlifted me by a mile. Mad respect and appreciation to him. Hopefully he'll keep my phone number and if he drops any more trees will give me a call. I tried to do as little damage to his yard as I could. Asked for a tarp so I could try and catch as much of the sawdust as possible to reduce his clean up. I offered to cut the rest of the tree up for him but he declined as he has a small chainsaw of his own but did ask if I could cut up the two stumps into smaller pieces which I was happy to do. Glad I did as I decided to take most of the cookies from one of them as I think they'd make awesome end tables once they dry. There's some rot in the middles which would be fun to fill with colored epoxy.





Which brings up a couple questions. I have the cookies stacked and stickered, do they need to be strapped down? Since they are end grain I'm thinking they won't warp much but splitting as they shrink is a concern however I'm thinking the splits will just add more character when I finish them. I know we've talked about drying them in alcohol and other chemicals which I don't think I will do on these as they are quite large. If they turn out I figure I'll keep one or two for myself and give one each to the two fellows that helped me today. They've both been my go to guys when it comes to some of this crazy stuff I do so I'd like to give them something nice to say thanks. Fingers crossed these turn out. 

I still need to paint the ends of the logs but I'm fairly wiped out and some of the logs are really wet still and actually have sap (I'm guessing that's what it is) pooling at the bottom so I don't think the paint or wax would stick very well. I'll give them a day or two and then seal them. 

I'm now in the need for that simple solar kiln Doc Henderson posted about several pages back. Time to start pinching my pennies so I can buy the uv plastic and a few 4x4's.

I need to figure out a better way to get logs out than a dolly and brute force. Some sort of log arch wagon or something. Can't drag it on the ground as I'm frequently pulling from yards with nice lawns. Also need to get me that cant hook as I don't relish the idea of turning all these unaided. 

Ahh it's good to be back in the man glitter  8) 8) 8)

Brandon