I just talked to a friend of mine who makes large rocking horses (8 1/2 ft X 5 1/2 ft.) out of wood. He said he can no longer ship his rockers across state lines (Calif.) due to possible bug infestation. I talked to another friend about this and he said he had camped in the Nat. Forest campground this summer and because of possible bugs, he could not use the firewood he had brought. He had to drive back to town to buy a per-packaged firewood bundle at the store for a hefty price. We do have a major tree die-off occurring. I see no cheap/easy answers. I also see major problems on the horizon for those of us dealing in wood products. Comments?
You may have to prove that the wood has been "sterilized" before you can sell the product.
Jim Rogers
I live in Blount County, TN. The same county the Great Smoky Mountains are in.
They (the park) will not even allow me to bring firewood from my residence -just 20 minutes away. BTW, the park and its visitors are the ones that brought in many of the blights, fungi, insects, etc to our county.
Anyway, the walnut twig beetle is the latest scourge to run through our county. Walnut trees are dying off everywhere.
Last I heard, we have a three county wide quarantine where wood is not supposed to be moved into or out of.
If the wood has been kiln dried and heat treated they can't stop you from moving it.
That's firewood (that has to be wrapped/certified) and kiln dried/heat treated with slip from being shipped.
The rules for firewood are not new. They've been in place for several years. Here is the link
https://www.dontmovefirewood.org/kiln-dried-vs-heat-treated-firewood-html/
I don't get it. I can't move firewood yet the mills hundreds of miles from the timber lease are accepting bug infested logs, we have huge swaths of pine and spruce beetle kill that need to be dealt with before the fires do it for us.
sawguy21 try bringing some in from the use in your car or truck. :D :D :D :DYears ago I brought some bow staves back. They started to give me a hard time about it. He asked what I was going to do with it I told him I was going to make a bow and he laughed and said have a great day :D :D :D
Californians should be able to get firewood for free..
After California wildfire, thousands of trees to be removed - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fires-drought-weakened-10k-trees-giant-sequoia-groves-80747958)
Quote from: SawyerTed on October 27, 2021, 03:29:37 PM
The rules for firewood are not new. They've been in place for several years. Here is the link
https://www.dontmovefirewood.org/kiln-dried-vs-heat-treated-firewood-html/
That "Don't Move Firewood" was (IMO) just a knee-jerk reaction to the Gov't needing to show they were actively doing something about the expanding EAB (Emerald Ash Borer) killing ash trees. It was an imaginary feeling that firewood was the guilty product in the scheme of ash trees dying.
The firewood "movers" were an easy target, and as pointed out, the movement of logs was mostly ignored. Loggers and sawmills were a more difficult target for shutting them down.
Little proof, if any, that the EAB was being distributed by firewood. But it was "something" to do, to show their concern. The slogan was convenient and short, so marketable to the public. Again, my opinion.
Firewood is often moved great distances and may be stored outside someone's home, who probably has landscape trees of various species nearby. Taking foreign firewood into a national park or forest would be highly likely to be near growing timber stands, and it doesn't all get burned. In our area, EAB was tracked to infested, left-over firewood near a community lake campground.
In most cases, logs are taken somewhere where the nearby trees are already dead (and cut to length), plus much of the scrap is disposed of by burning in boilers and kilns, presenting much less of a hazard. When EAB got close to our area I got a phone call warning me of the quarantine regulations related to my location (I think is was from the USDA pest supervisor).
I remember travelling across the prairie provinces in the 90's and those 'do not transport firewood' signs were everywhere. It was concerning the dutch elm disease. Apparently lots of elm is used as firewood out there and the bark beetles spread it.
For the most part, the whole deal is based on the honor system. Lots of folks around that never give it a thought, some with not much honor in them, others just don't think. ;D I said a few years back, if they were serious about EAB spread they would have checks at the provincial boundaries, and spot check anyone with camping realestate on the road. Didn't happen around here, so not taken all the seriously at all. Oh, but they'll stop ya for COVID compliance. ;D But a tree? Oh, they're just trees. :D ;) You'll get the same response in court if someone steals your trees to. :D
Quote from: beenthere on October 27, 2021, 10:19:45 PM
Quote from: SawyerTed on October 27, 2021, 03:29:37 PM
The rules for firewood are not new. They've been in place for several years. Here is the link
https://www.dontmovefirewood.org/kiln-dried-vs-heat-treated-firewood-html/
That "Don't Move Firewood" was (IMO) just a knee-jerk reaction to the Gov't needing to show they were actively doing something about the expanding EAB (Emerald Ash Borer) killing ash trees. It was an imaginary feeling that firewood was the guilty product in the scheme of ash trees dying.
The firewood "movers" were an easy target, and as pointed out, the movement of logs was mostly ignored. Loggers and sawmills were a more difficult target for shutting them down.
Little proof, if any, that the EAB was being distributed by firewood. But it was "something" to do, to show their concern. The slogan was convenient and short, so marketable to the public. Again, my opinion.
I don't disagree with you but I do know the rules does get enforced in state and national parks. I volunteer at a camp host for a couple of months a year and Rangers do check firewood.
Quote from: Tom the Sawyer on October 27, 2021, 11:30:14 PM
Firewood is often moved great distances and may be stored outside someone's home, who probably has landscape trees of various species nearby. Taking foreign firewood into a national park or forest would be highly likely to be near growing timber stands, and it doesn't all get burned. In our area, EAB was tracked to infested, left-over firewood near a community lake campground.
In most cases, logs are taken somewhere where the nearby trees are already dead (and cut to length), plus much of the scrap is disposed of by burning in boilers and kilns, presenting much less of a hazard. When EAB got close to our area I got a phone call warning me of the quarantine regulations related to my location (I think is was from the USDA pest supervisor).
We've had plenty of quarantines on ash and oak logs and lumber. We sent a load of lumber for export to Pakistan, and they inspected the wood for any bark. In another instance, the feds came in and inspected the logs for gypsy moth egg masses. If there were too many, they we simply debarked the log and it was okay. Not a great deal on a log were simply loaded on the truck for export.
A lot of hardwood mills don't have boilers, especially smaller mills. Most of the chips are from debarked logs, but chips are sent to both paper mills and mulching companies. The mulch sometimes ends up as playground or horse ring material. No sterilization there.
Our bark was sent to a wholesaler outside the quarantine area, right off the log. Other mills will put it on piles and grind it before wholesale or retail markets. Not much regulation there.
Regulations may seem find and dandy, but it is nearly impossible enforce. Its easier for a park with limited access to enforce a ban on firewood than a state forest to enforce where the sale of their logs are going.
On a recent trip I noticed that some campgrounds are taking this a step further and saying you can't bring ANY firewood into their campsites. They will not allow you to purchase wood from the front lawn 'camp wood' stand 100 yards from their gate and bring it in. However, you are welcome to purchase wood from them if you like. ;D 10 bucks for a small bundle delivered to your site.
I also noticed that they would come around after some campers moved on and they would collect the wood and re-sell it to the next fine folks that wanted some. Apparently they didn't charge to pick it back up. :D Anyway, I thought that was an interesting way to 'adjust' a regulation to suit one's needs.
I don't think rules about shipping lumber across state lines is anything new. In a conversation with USDA I was told dried lumber is supposed to be run through a certified kiln in order to ship between states. They were especially concerned about wood with any bark.
That said, I'm sure a LOT of it is done without.
I always wondered about pallet wood. Local Amish sawmills don't sterilize and I'd be surprised if their customers making pallets do it, not to mention all the railroad ties that are cut and shipped somewhere to get treated.
Even the kiln process is not much guarantee. I was told that most mills don't get the temp of the core hot enough to kill bugs. I've been told that the Irvings do. They have a broader market than most up here so gotta cover the bases. Ship by sea, rail and over road.
This topic is one I've become very familiar with over the last few weeks. The heat treating/standard is an internal temperature of 140° for one hour for firewood. Kilns must be certified to use the USDA APHIS seal.
I was told, and it's published someplace, that the core has to be at least 170 degrees.
I've just checked a couple publications, both USDA and Canadian and it's 56C (132 F) core temp for at least 30 minutes. So 60C(140 F) is spot on in my way of thinking, good even figures between units. Brain lapse there. ;D
Lots if misinformation is out there
This USDA Document spells it out pretty clearly and succinctly
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/plant_health/qa-eab-kilns-firewood.pdf (https://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/plant_health/qa-eab-kilns-firewood.pdf)
Yes, that one seems more precise indicating the target bugs to kill at what temp and duration. Link to others. smiley_thumbsup
The Canadian one states 56C for 30 minutes and no elaboration on one bug over the other. Goes under the Canadian Heat Treated Wood Products Certification Program (HT Program). And the USDA one I found was same, but neither firewood specific either, it just has to be a wood product. These are from government sites.
edit: Here's one on Canadian firewood, same deal 56C for 30m.
https://canadainvasives.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/CCIS-Firewood-Program-Fact-Sheet-Campgrounds-FINAL.pdf (https://canadainvasives.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/CCIS-Firewood-Program-Fact-Sheet-Campgrounds-FINAL.pdf)
Then US one, 71C for 75m for Canadian imported firewood. :D
https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/32782/PDF (https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/32782/PDF)
Be aware that since June of 2020 the federal government turned regulating firewood over to the states and that means requirements are not standardized across the country. Some require an internal temperature of 140°F for 45 minutes and others 160°F. There could be others that are different from them.
Is there a link or document you can point us to? Knowing the current requirements is going to be important to my latest venture.
It might be like finding hens teeth. All I see is buy local firewood campaigns on NC websites and no info on treating it. This makes me assume that treatment is per USDA regs since bags are labelled with a USDA stamp that assures it was dry kilned with their specs.
Firewood as a Vector in Invasive Pest Dispersal | NC State Extension Publications (https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/firewood-as-a-vector-in-invasive-pest-dispersal)
There's tons of firewood heat treating firewood on the USDA Animal and Plant Inspection Service website. I have not located anything that says federal regulation has been discontinued. The link I posted previously was dated May 2021.
Here is a link to some of the APHIS material on heat treating firewood.
https://usdasearch.usda.gov/search?utf8=%3F&affiliate=usda-aphis&query=Heat+treating+firewood+&commit=Search (https://usdasearch.usda.gov/search?utf8=%3F&affiliate=usda-aphis&query=Heat+treating+firewood+&commit=Search)
To be able to use the USDA stamp kilns have to perform at specific standard parameters and receive periodic performance inspections.
Yep, nothing written at the state level. ;)