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Strapping lumber

Started by Rockwell, July 19, 2019, 09:59:58 AM

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Rockwell

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone have had experience transporting boules of live edge lumber and best way to strap them? When we are talking about stacked 4-5' wide and 15' long slabs what would be the ideal strap to use, as in steel, woven cord, nylon/polyester/plastic? Width and thickness?

Also, any particular wrapping I can use for protection?

Thank you
Larry

Crusarius

I don't know about what your asking about but that pack size I would be inclined to add a headache rack to the back of the trailer So anything that rattled loose inside the pack will not walk out and land in someones windshield.

The trucking company next door to me always has boards sticking out after transport. kinda scary.

Rockwell

Quote from: Crusarius on July 19, 2019, 10:53:14 AM
I don't know about what your asking about but that pack size I would be inclined to add a headache rack to the back of the trailer So anything that rattled loose inside the pack will not walk out and land in someones windshield.

The trucking company next door to me always has boards sticking out after transport. kinda scary.
Thanks for the advise but this is for shipping purposes, as in shipping container. These are large and heavy slabs and I just need them to be as snug as possible. I have spoken to a few strapping companies but still wanted to get a professional opinion.

btulloh

There are quite few people on here with strapping experience. They'll be weighing in given a little time, no doubt.
HM126

barbender

I wouldn't call my opinion professional, but I've been using 3/4" poly cord strap for the last few years around the mill. It works good for bundles of waste slabs, lumber, and anything else I've had a mind to put it on (palletized bundled firewood is another use). I've never had any break, it has a nice elastic effect so it stays tight on irregular loads. I have both the ratcheting took and the pry bar, they both work fine.
Too many irons in the fire

nativewolf

Maybe an admin could move this over into the sawing section, it would get the right eyeballs and responses?  Dow we ask jeff or?  
Liking Walnut

YellowHammer

For over the road shipping, even in a container, I use only AAR (American Association of Railroad) green poly lumber strapping with serrated crimps.  I have never had it break of come loose and the tensioning tools will pull a pack tight and hold it there.  You can get the stuff different places, but I get mine from ULine.  

I use the Kubinbec style around the house.  I've had it break several times and spill loads here at the mill, so I wouldn't use it where it mattered.

I've used other lower strength "package" strapping and had it break under load way too many times.  The owner of one of the local mills buys and only uses AAR strapping for my loads but use the standard lower strength stuff for theirs.  He got pulled over and got a hefty ticket (Improperly Secured Load) because, unknown to him, a load of boards in his shipping truck had come loose when the low strength bands had broken, and one of the boards had speared through and was sticking out the side of the metal truck wall and could have killed someone.  He didn't even know it had happed unto he got pulled over.  They only use AAR rated strapping now.  The letters will be inked or embossed on the strapping material.

Metal strapping works too, and is legal for over the road transport, but is a pain to handle and dispose.

Here is the result of the orange Kubinec 1/2" strapping failing under load. I was moving this pack of wood and it started to shift.  I tried some corrective action and instead of holding the lumber, the two straps literally exploded off the pack, one of them flying by my head.  If you look close to the rear end of the forklift, you can see one of the broken orange straps laying on the ground, which was how far it flew through the air after it failed.  You can see the other broken orange strap still under the pile of wood.
 


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Rockwell

Quote from: YellowHammer on July 19, 2019, 01:46:33 PM
For over the road shipping, even in a container, I use only AAR (American Association of Railroad) green poly lumber strapping with serrated crimps.  I have never had it break of come loose and the tensioning tools will pull a pack tight and hold it there.  You can get the stuff different places, but I get mine from ULine.  

I use the Kubinbec style around the house.  I've had it break several times and spill loads here at the mill, so I wouldn't use it where it mattered.

I've used other lower strength "package" strapping and had it break under load way too many times.  The owner of one of the local mills buys and only uses AAR strapping for my loads but use the standard lower strength stuff for theirs.  He got pulled over and got a hefty ticket (Improperly Secured Load) because, unknown to him, a load of boards in his shipping truck had come loose when the low strength bands had broken, and one of the boards had speared through and was sticking out the side of the metal truck wall and could have killed someone.  He didn't even know it had happed unto he got pulled over.  They only use AAR rated strapping now.  The letters will be inked or embossed on the strapping material.

Metal strapping works too, and is legal for over the road transport, but is a pain to handle and dispose.

Here is the result of the orange Kubinec 1/2" strapping failing under load. I was moving this pack of wood and it started to shift.  I tried some corrective action and instead of holding the lumber, the two straps literally exploded off the pack, one of them flying by my head.  If you look close to the rear end of the forklift, you can see one of the broken orange straps laying on the ground, which was how far it flew through the air after it failed.  You can see the other broken orange strap still under the pile of wood.
 



Thank you for that, very insightful. I will most certainly look into the AAR strapping. Not looking to loose any lumber throughout any part of the transit. By any chance would you know the break strength for the strap?
Thank you

mike_belben

Metal banding will stain lumber.  I haul lumber and brick thats banded all the time, ill hafta look closer for labeling on it.  The brick has no pallet or shrinkwrap, just a few hundred bricks with a few loops of plastic.  I hate those.  Triangle brick has a machine make the packs.  At Statesville brick ive seen hand banding and those suck. 

Im not impressed with my metal bander personally.  I think id be tempted to look for a low cost fabric strapping solution.  Think ratchet strap bulk spool with no hardware.  Cinch with ratchet strap and screw to sacrificial dunnage.  Or build low grade crates. 
Praise The Lord

YellowHammer

For most stuff I use 3/4 ton green.

The true test is an actual drop.  The bands should be sized so that if your load of wood is dropped, it won't come apart.  I've done that, inadvertently, and had a whole pack of wood dropped off a forklift that was moving too fast in a turn.  The pack remained intact, although completely on its side and the bands held.  I was able to flip it upright with another machine and reload it into the truck.

So depending of your situation, you may be better off with even stronger material, up to 1 inch wide.  

Now that I'm thinking about, I had a situation last year where I had a pack of mahogany lumber shipped to me from another mill on the Gulf Coast, maybe 350 miles, to my place in a standard LTL panel freight truck. When the driver opened the door, the bands on the lumber pack had broken, and pieces of 2 inch thick, 10 foot long, heavy, mahogany had been playing demolition derby with other people's cargo in the back of the truck for a hundred miles or so.  It was a mess.  I'm glad I didn't have to pay for the damage, because I didn't originate the shipment.  

Use enough strap.  

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

barbender

YH, fwiw I think the 1/2" strap has only about 1/3 the break strength of the 3/4". I've never broke it but I don't handle anywhere near as much lumber as you.
Too many irons in the fire

LeeB

Interesting comment about liability. Is it still the vendor's responsibility or does it become the shipper's once the load is accepted?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

timbatrader

One thing that I find helps when packaging awkward or difficult packs of timber is to bundle up the timber into manageable one man lift bundles using smaller cheap strap then stack the bundles into a packet and strap that. It's a lot more work but for valuable timber traveling by sea freight in containers it gets it to the customer in good condition it doesn't matter who is responsible for damage in transit if the customer is not happy no repeat business 

mike_belben

The shipper loads and has carrier sign a bill of lading that theyre taking custody of intact goods.  If its damaged the carrier doesnt accept or annotates the damage and gets the shippers signature which is basically admitting fault.  

If it arrives damaged, the consignee [receiver] will either reject it or have the carrier signing responsibility for the damage.  If it gets smashed up in transit the carriers cargo coverage is likely going to receive a claim.
Praise The Lord

YellowHammer

That's exactly right, I noted the "damage" to the wood I bought, nicks, dings, and such.  This was high dollar genuine mahogany and I wanted to be covered in the remote situation where the end buyer rejected it.  That way it was made clear that I, as the receiver, noted the damage and the probably cause, I.e, broken packaging bands.  So not my fault, not my problem, and I accepted my load.  

The other damge to other items in the truck were substantial, there were a few kitchen appliances that looked pretty bad, and a motorized wheelchair that would need its own wheel chair to get around.

I assume the shipper would have to accept responsibility for the damage?  Or maybe both the originator and the shipper if the shipper could claim improper packing?  I don't know, but I bet it was an insurance mess to sort out.  

Barbender, you are correct, I would probably be OK if I went to the wider straps, stronger straps, but since the stuff is relatively expensive I wouldn't want to use it for one way shipping, the green poly is much less expensive and more suited to a one way trip, in our situation.

I really like the Kubinec type because it is easily reusable and can be tensioned by hand, perfect for use here one site.  That's why we use it here, it's got some advantages.  However, for on the road transport, I only use AAR approved "lumber strap" green or similar.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

barbender

The woven strap is definitely reusable, YH. I have straps going around stuff in the yard that is mostly knots where I've tied short pieces together😁
Too many irons in the fire

Bruno of NH

A friend all most lost his eye when metal banding broke on a load.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

mike_belben

Oh i can picture that for sure.  Stuff is dangerous.  

As for the damage in the truck, its usually a blame game.  And an insurance premium hike.
Praise The Lord

Rockwell

Thank you all for all the insight and advice, I think I have a good understanding of direction to take in terms of strapping.

For myself, I think it's safe to say that you guys might have prevented an injury in some operating future.

Larry

alan gage

Quote from: YellowHammer on July 20, 2019, 09:12:28 AMI really like the Kubinec type because it is easily reusable and can be tensioned by hand, perfect for use here one site. That's why we use it here, it's got some advantages. However, for on the road transport, I only use AAR approved "lumber strap" green or similar.


I use the Kubinec style. I bought some rough sawn hardwood on auction about 1 1/2 hours away. I banded the packs as I stacked them on the trailer. On the way home the sharp edges cut through two bands. Thankfully I noticed before anything bad happened but it was an eye opener.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

YellowHammer

Wow.  Good job catching it.  
Strapping and banding is one of those things that seems like a non event until something almost goes wrong.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Ljohnsaw

I just about cut through my big straps when I was hauling a 14' box off a truck on my flatbed.  Ever since, I take some cut up pieces of plastic barrels and use them as edge protectors, both for the product and the straps.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

mike_belben

Firehose chunks with a slit make the best rock sleeve i have used.  For soft bagged stuff like mulch or sand i use cut 5gal buckets. Keeps the strap from cutting through the top bag.
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Quote from: YellowHammer on July 19, 2019, 01:46:33 PM
For over the road shipping, even in a container, I use only AAR (American Association of Railroad) green poly lumber strapping with serrated crimps.  I have never had it break of come loose and the tensioning tools will pull a pack tight and hold it there.  You can get the stuff different places, but I get mine from ULine.  

I use the Kubinbec style around the house.  I've had it break several times and spill loads here at the mill, so I wouldn't use it where it mattered.

I've used other lower strength "package" strapping and had it break under load way too many times.  The owner of one of the local mills buys and only uses AAR strapping for my loads but use the standard lower strength stuff for theirs.  He got pulled over and got a hefty ticket (Improperly Secured Load) because, unknown to him, a load of boards in his shipping truck had come loose when the low strength bands had broken, and one of the boards had speared through and was sticking out the side of the metal truck wall and could have killed someone.  He didn't even know it had happed unto he got pulled over.  They only use AAR rated strapping now.  The letters will be inked or embossed on the strapping material.

Metal strapping works too, and is legal for over the road transport, but is a pain to handle and dispose.

Here is the result of the orange Kubinec 1/2" strapping failing under load. I was moving this pack of wood and it started to shift.  I tried some corrective action and instead of holding the lumber, the two straps literally exploded off the pack, one of them flying by my head.  If you look close to the rear end of the forklift, you can see one of the broken orange straps laying on the ground, which was how far it flew through the air after it failed.  You can see the other broken orange strap still under the pile of wood.
 



ThankYou. You answered my question on the serrated crimps! If there is anything new on the strapping supplies or changes I would like to hear some feedback

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