2" frustration

[moodnacreek]

This is starting to happen all the time.  Unknown customer calls looking for trailer planks. I ask if it is 2" and now he says his employee  will call me. Now I am in trouble. Guy calls, I ask if it is 2" and as always he says yes. He is on his way up from N.J. but never shows. Calls and says he is on his way, never shows. Calls this morning and does show. [lumber was pulled yesterday]  Now they want more.  I come in for lunch and the guy has called 4 times. Wants to exchange for 1 1/2". The cell phone has been used 10 times and the ruler 0.  I may start to tell anyone I do not know No.

[Southside]

"All sales are final" on the receipt in big letters will solve that issue, then they will keep the 2" and buy additional 1.5", while learning a valuable lesson. 

[MattM]

Time is money and that guy is wasting yours. Tell him there's a restocking fee, at least then you'll get paid for your time.

[Jim_Rogers]

When someone would say that to me, "I want 2" stock" I'd say, at the sawmill if you say 2" then you get 2". If you meant you wanted 1 1/2" then I'm not a mind reader. You get what you ask for.

It got to be so bad with trailer planks that I finally had to go to the trailer myself and measure the thickness of the stock on it. Or if stripped the metal so I could make what they needed. And I charged a fee for that in the final price of the lumber, whether they knew that or not.

Jim Rogers

[longtime lurker]

I reserve the right to charge a 15% restocking fee, it's in the fine print on the terms and conditions of sale. A restocking fee isn't about money for nothing, its compensation for the expense incurred in pulling lumber for an order, wrapping and strapping, and the inevitable fact that now you get to unwrap and unstrap and return it to stock. And the paperwork, and the nuisance of sales tax calculations and generating a refund when that's on the agenda. The odd guy complains but mostly once I explain the situation they're good with it

Depending on the customer and the order sometimes I waive it either in whole or in part.  

Retailing lumber ain't sawmilling as I'm rapidly learning. One thing I did like about sawmilling as opposed to retailing was the class of people I dealt with... the wholesale buyers knew what they wanted and I never had to hold their hands, and if an order got screwed up they took it anyway and ordered the right thing as well. But this retail margin stuff is nice  ;D

[230Dforme]

Good afternoon Moodnacreek 

Come on now 😁, you are the seasoned, well respected mill expert
The customers are seasoned at clueless, and expert
at nothing

It is up to you to ask all the right questions to ensure that the customer gets what he needs, even if he doesn't know what he needs

In good fun as always
Your friend in LG 😳

[Old Greenhorn]

OH, he is not alone, and he did ask the right questions. Case in point, an order I got a few years ago from a guy who was taking delivery on a new dump truck that week.
 Client: I need 2 pieces of 2x12 x 16' for top boards on my dump.
 Me: are you sure they are a full 2" thick?
 Client: Yup, 2" for sure. can I pick them up tomorrow?
 Me: Nope gotta mill them up for you first, but are you certain they are 2" thick?
 Client: Yes, I measured the slots, when can I get them?
 Me: maybe Friday.

SO he picks them up and complains about the weight. :D Throws them on his trailer, pays, and leaves. The next day I get a text "The boards are too thick, any suggestions?" I replied "Learn to read a tape measure and learn how to shave the tails of the boards with a chainsaw." :D :D ;D


 It happens ALL the time.

[chet]

Or frustration is when a guy brings you Basswood logs to saw. After the sawing is done you tell the him to make sure he uses dry stickers as Basswood will sticker stain easily. Then have the owner of the logs get upset with you because you didn't tell him his logs were Basswood, not the Ash he thought he had. 

[SawyerTed]

Then there's the tree service guy who wants to sell white oak logs.  He had not cut them yet and wanted to sell them on the stump.

Me:  "Are you sure they are white oak?"
Tree service guy:  "Absolutely"
Me:  "Ok I'll come look at them.  I won't make an offer until I see them."  

I go with him to look at them.  They were beautiful, pencil straight, perfect diameter, and 30 feet before the first branch...poplars. 

Me:  "Those are poplars."
Tree service guy: "Are you sure?"
Me:  "Absolutely and I'm not buying them."

[chet]

I told this one on the forum years ago. Did a tree job removing a Red Pine for a lady that her father had long ago planted. She wanted to do something with it to remember her father. One of my guys volunteered the fact that I had a sawmill.  :-\  After some discussion I told her to let me know her plans for the lumber and I would cut it accordingly. She latter called and had decided to have it cut to made solid Oak Chest.  :

[Crossroads]

At least with the 2" confusion, they can be sold to the next guy who wants 2". I had a call for some trailer decking 2 1/4x8x16.  I called and let him know when they were done and he said he would be here at 4:30. At 3:45 I got a text saying he was on his way. I wandered down to the skiddy and picked up the order. When he didn't show I tried to contact him, but never heard from him again. I sat on those boards for a year before getting them out of my way at a discount to a guy building a treehouse. 

[customsawyer]

It's pretty rare that I take lumber back. I don't know how it has been stored or if they treated it with something since it has left here.  I try to always ask if they want the full 2" or 1½". If I don't know them they pay for it before I cut it. If they get the wrong size I explain they can sell it themselves on Facebook or Craigslist and I will sell them the right size.  Invoices are printed with "All sales are final" type of thing. I don't know it this is the right way to do it but it keeps me from eating lumber, restocking, or putting it back in the kiln to sterilize again.
I did have a customer that ordered 240 V-Groove 2x6x16 boards a couple of weeks ago. He is a repeat customer and it's something that I normally carry, so I didn't make him pay up front. When he came to get it he realized that he meant to order 140 pieces not 240. I charged a restocking fee of 20% and he was fine with that. One of the reasons I was willing to do it is that the lumber had never left here. I guess the thing I'm trying to say is that there always seems to be exceptions to the rules. 

[moodnacreek]

At least with the 2" confusion, they can be sold to the next guy who wants 2". I had a call for some trailer decking 2 1/4x8x16.  I called and let him know when they were done and he said he would be here at 4:30. At 3:45 I got a text saying he was on his way. I wandered down to the skiddy and picked up the order. When he didn't show I tried to contact him, but never heard from him again. I sat on those boards for a year before getting them out of my way at a discount to a guy building a treehouse.

Each year I do less custom sawing. To get me to do a size that does not sell I would have to have the right logs, the time and be paid in full up front. Otherwise stock sizes require no down payment because that would lock up the wood if a no show. In Doug's perfect world he owns everything in the yard and it is all for sale. Aka, the land of make believe. 2" and 1 1/2" is the trailer plank sizes and that is enough. Doing 1 3/4 just messes things up.  I am done with 2" for this winter and am sawing 1 1/2 now until the oak is gone. Then shift the sawdust pipes and saw all the walnut and after all that go to pine until trout season. No time for custom orders.

[Crossroads]

Gotta respect a guy that sets his milling schedule around Trout season 😁

[longtime lurker]

Each year I do less custom sawing. To get me to do a size that does not sell I would have to have the right logs, the time and be paid in full up front. Otherwise stock sizes require no down payment because that would lock up the wood if a no show. In Doug's perfect world he owns everything in the yard and it is all for sale. Aka, the land of make believe. 2" and 1 1/2" is the trailer plank sizes and that is enough. Doing 1 3/4 just messes things up.  I am done with 2" for this winter and am sawing 1 1/2 now until the oak is gone. Then shift the sawdust pipes and saw all the walnut and after all that go to pine until trout season. No time for custom orders.

My attitude to almost all non standard sizes today is no problem... we'll just take the next standard size up and machine it back for you, and the fact you have to pay for a bigger board than you wanted and pay for me to resize it ain't my problem. Fee for service and all that, and my experience is that if I start cutting non standard sizes off saw I'll get a whole run of shorts that do not make the order and then I have to pay to take them down to the next standard size so they fit in a pack.
I think the biggest luxury in business is being in a position to say no to work because it doesn't fit with the plan. And writing the plan around when the fish are on seems like a perfectly logical thing to me.

[moodnacreek]

LL , If we are dealing with real folks that mean what they say and given enough lead time, many sizes may be had. But here in N.Y. in 2023 there is lots of money and little else. Almost no one has had a repeat relationship with a small producer.  Unlike you and me they don't think about coming back or needing a favor some day. The only way to survive is  to charge top retail dollar. Not the way I was brought up but the way it is. I have to wonder who they will go to in the next bad recession when they are broke.

[Ron Wenrich]

Maybe you should have a prepayment for odd sizes.  It sort of filters out those buyers that order and never pick up. 

We only had a small pile of maybe 1 Mbf sitting around the mill that was ready for pick up.  We did mostly wholesale and volume, so those little orders only came out of what we were sawing.  Rarely did we put up a log special to cut an order.  Some small orders could be pulled from the pallet pile.  Anything ordered that wasn't picked up went into the pallet pile.  Our prices were low because the quality was low. 

We did have a few guys that had specialty orders.  One was from a pattern shop.  He ordered high end tulip poplar.  Another order FAS red oak 1x6x12 for table skirts.  They were repeat customers and their money was good.  Repeat customers should be the basis for a business, if possible.  Those little orders were less than 1% of the business.

[PAmizerman]

I don't cut anything without a deposit unless it is a repeat customer. Or it is something I stock. 

I don't take returns. I have an even exchange policy. If a customer is unhappy they have the option to bring the boards back and I'll look at them to see if they're dissatisfaction is justified. If so I will trade them even up for the exact dimension. 

It has only happened to me three times.

The first two complainers said that it was too much of a hassle. But I guarantee If I would have just given them free boards they would have made the trip back.

The third was justified. I cut 3x12x20 for a guy. I cut three out of one log and just lifted the stack off. 
There was rot in the middle of the log that was not visible from either end.

When the customer asked what he owed me I told him no charge.
He proceeded to tell me that it was not my fault the log was bad and insisted he pay me for the replacements. 
Those are the best kind of customers.
He has been back several times since. 

[Durf700]

my policy is if I don't know you or you are not a previous customer you need to pay half down before I start.  I have not had a problem with that.  once I sell you lumber and you show up as scheduled to pick up and pay I have no problem processing an order for someone with a previous good experience.

I don't mill full time , heck.. not even close..  but this way I don't get stuck with a custom cut list that I don't need or want. I usually just ask them when they order a 2x what they are doing with it?  then I ask them if they want same dimensions that they can get at a lumber yard..  most of them say yes.