What up Benches?

[tule peak timber]

So, a couple of benches we shipped this morning; a pair of hobbit like coastal live oak slab benches, hard wax oil finish. The second photo is of Tony, my shop foreman and a designer who just flew in from Italy. She commissioned this small, simplistic, cube stool for an auction at a museum tomorrow. Her designs are typically spartan and modernistic but very demanding on finish and execution. She is great to work with and the projects she is involved in are very high end one of a kind, world wide. I'm lucky to be able to work for her.

 

 

[doc henderson]

love the finish!  thanks again for putting that in my wheelhouse.

[tule peak timber]

Was honored and proud to find out that the little bench made 3500 bucks for the museum ! 

 

 

[trimguy]

Wow ! You should be.

[Old Greenhorn]

 Well 2 years ago I made a cherry bench with blind spline waterfall joints. For the last month I have been on a bench kick again and I have 4 benches or stools in work and a 5th getting started.
 The first I am pretty much calling done. 


 

 Photo was before current stage it has 3 coats of Danish oil and 3 coats of hand rubbed wax.
The second one is getting finished now (Tung Oil) but I didn't get a photo with the finish. It is shorter than the first.



 

 The third one is not a waterfall type, it is more like the ones the WOC posted at the top of this page, although I didn't notice that until this evening. I just made what I could get out of the wood. Again, this one also uses blind splines, just placed in square.



 

That one is currently getting fillet epoxy pours the smooth the transition from the leg to the seat.
 The 4th one is a stool, cherry seat with red oak legs machined in octagons. I had to sand on the tenons in order to get them pretty square and my lumberjack tenon cutter just doesn't do the job. This one is getting the second epoxy pours the put a nice fillet around the legs right now, tomorrow I sand and start finishing if I can get to it.


 

 The photo above is pre gluing and before I shaped the corners and such. That fillet pour was a challenge and always is on these legs because the tenon is undercut and getting the epoxy to form a nice fillet is a problem. Today I tried something different. I had these cheap squeeze bottles the wife got at a craft store and never used. Tricky to get them filled, but it worked quite well. Gotta get some more bottles because they are a one time use.

 By the way, does anybody know what will cut and clean up pre-cured epoxy? I have a dickens of a time trying to clean tools after I do a pour. I use throw away containers almost all the time, but on big pours I sure would like to clan and reuse stuff, or get the drops off of accidental contacts with tools like squares and such. I think its a lost cause, but thought I would ask.

[Larry]

I use acetone, other things will cut it but acetone is friendlier to my skin.  I know wear rubber gloves.

[tule peak timber]

You can also dedicate sealed containers, partially filled with acetone, for your tools, brushes, etc. Epoxy requires a precise mixture so once you rinse your brushes a single time, then put them in more acetone, the epoxy will never cure. I'll use the same brush, squeegee, spreader, etc. for weeks by cleaning them just a little bit, then dumping them into a bath of acetone with a closed lid. I use enough acetone that we use rubber gloves with glove liners, otherwise you will eventually dry your skin out to the point the cracks will bleed. Plus, you must remember that your skin is simply another organ and acetone is water soluble, so it goes right into you; probably not the greatest thing in the world for your health. It's really weird but out here on the left coast, acetone is one thing I can still get in 5 gallon pails; $100+, so I try to use it smartly. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well thanks guys, but if acetone is the solution I'll have to take a pass. Too many decades of working with that stuff before we knew what it was has done me in and I seem to be hypersensitive to it now. One whiff and I have a killer headache for 30 hours. Can't have it in the shop. Actually I am surprised I don't have cancer by now, between that stuff, the Trichlorethylene I nearly took baths in back in the 70's and the firefighting work, I am surprised I have gotten along this far. Dn't plan on pushing my luck any further. ;D :D
 I'll just throw the stuff out, besides, most of it is plastic and will melt anyway.

[doc henderson]

I buy plastic quart mixing cups in a box of 100.  I flex and pop out the epoxy and reuse till they are cracked.  

[Dan_Shade]

Acetone is a VOC exempt solvent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VOC_exempt_solvent

[doc henderson]

I like to make my own jigs and fixtures.  being Christmas time, i was looking at the Lumber jack tools site.  I have thought about getting there dedicated clamp system and the sled for the hole Haug for doing tenons for my benches.   I have a new in box Milwaukee drill.  I have used my 18 V DeWalt for this, but feel it borders on abuse.  so then I got a sale on the sled and a 10% off coupon.  My parents passed away 15 years ago.  and each of us three boys got about 20 K from my moms retirement fund.  It is in a decedent's IRA and I have to take out so much each year.  so each December (Christmas) I still get a gift from my parents.     :new_year:

[doc henderson]

made charcuterie boards form a sentimental tree across the street.  throwing in a bench for the grandson from the same tree.



 

 

[Wlmedley]

Bought myself a Lumberjack pro tenon cutter for Christmas.Got it yesterday with no instructions.Installed blades and tried it out before trying to find instructions on the internet.Pictures show results.Finally looked up instructions and properly adjusted blades by using cardboard box it came in as gauge as instructed.Worked better but still rough.Did some more research and found out best to use a lot of pressure and make sure drill stops turning before removal.Maybe play with it some more tomorrow.Really wanting to make a bench.

 

 

  

[WV Sawmiller]

Bill,

   Be sure to round the corners off where they go in the tenon cutter. I used to use a drawknife but now I make the whole leg into an octagon by knocking the corners off on my tablesaw and they work almost as well as round stock.

   Good luck and keep us posted how it works for you.

[Old Greenhorn]

You are a better man than me Wlmedley! Good on ya! I would be tickled pink with those results. When I bought mine, the instructions came in the box but are not extremely helpful. 

Tell us what wood you have there and how green it was. I use Howards octagon approach also, but do the chamfers on a table router, which is faster, safer, and gives a better finish with less sanding. Also make a very nice looking leg and I have always been a bit of a leg man. ;D I have a 5" belt sander that I spin the tenons on the clean them up and bring them down to the next size with a good fit. In fact, on that belt sander I can just sand the whole tenon in a minute or two.

 Looks to me like you are off to a great start!

[Wlmedley]

Tom,the first two pictures are hickory which was cut approximately 6 months ago.The last picture is pitch pine cut in the last month which may make a big difference.I don't have a table saw or router so I'll have to make due with a hand plane I guess.Tenon cutter I bought is 1 1/2" but after sanding tenon I'm afraid tenon will be more like 1 3/8 or 1 7/16 but I guess I can drill smaller holes.Will have to play with it awhile and see.

[Wlmedley]

Question for some of you bench makers.After using 1 1/2" tenon cutter should I expect leg to fit an 1 1/2" hole cut with a forstner bit or do you normally cut hole 1 3/8" and then sand leg to fit.I ordered both size bits.Couldn't find any 1 7/16" bits.Bits are made by Freud and tenon cutter is a Lumberjack if that makes any difference.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I use the same tenon cutter you use I think. It is 1.5". I use a 1.5" auger to make the mortise. Mine are pretty snug but if they feel loose I use a metal sledgehammer wedge (I buy several pounds at a time from a handle maker in Arkansas) to tighten them. I do not sand my tenons and they may have a little rough/fuzzy finish but they don't show inside the mortise. :D

  I have learned to drive the wedges in line with the long part of the bench instead of the sides because the distance between the edge of the mortise can be pretty thin and is more likely to crack/split if driven in parallel to the side.

 
Here is a picture with the wedges before I learned to install them in line with the long side of the bench.

  What I like about the metal wedges is you can add them after the tenon is installed and you do not need to cut a slot for them. If you don't like the look of the metal wedges you could countersink them 1/4" deeper then fill in the slot with putty made from wood glue and sawdust from your sander then sand it smooth once dry.

[Wlmedley]

Thanks Howard, I saw some pictures that Doc posted and tenons looked pretty smooth and I thought maybe I had to sand them but you're right they won't be seen. I guess I should have took calipers and checked further down on tenon to see what it measured before ordering smaller bit along with 1 1/2"bit.

[doc henderson]

the tenon cutters are adjustable via a screw and set screw, or shims.  I have the lee valley veritas and they are more expensive and work well.  I have a stake pointer from lumberjack tools.  it is not as smooth, but I am told they smooth out with proper adjustment and or shims.  I have had great response to phone calls to LJ tools and have had issues resolved with the clamp and sled I decided to buy on sale.  I would call them.  new owners and a staff of about 8 people.  I have my tenon cutters adjusted and they work smooth.  I have used them for 7 years with an 18-volt handheld drill.  My 1.5-inch tenon cutter fits into a 1.5-inch Forstner bit.  I chamfer the tip with the next smaller tenon cutter, and I drive them in with a soft blow mallet, and then have to use a crescent or pipe wrench to twist them to get them straight.  i.e., parallel to the end and sides of the seat.  I never sand them, and I never cuss them.

[doc henderson]

medley, go back to post 79 (by my count, but I work back to front, so my number is usually off by 1) and look at that picture.  that is with all the cylinders working, but I would accept very little less than that.  I never have ridges to sand.  It defeats the purpose of the tool to have to buy odd size bits to make it work and sand these things.  

[Tom King]

On the cleanup of epoxy:  The pure orange oil cleaners will get it up.  Back in the '80's, when I had a boat shop, a salesman came in one day selling gallons of pure orange oil cleaner.  

There was some West Systems spilled on the floor from some job that hadn't kicked yet.  I told him that if it would get that up, thinking no way it would, that I would buy a case.  It cleaned it up easier than Acetone does, and I was fortunate that a case was only four gallons, but I ended up being glad that I had it many times.

I don't remember what it cost back then, but it's 70 bucks a gallon now:
Amazing Orange Multi-Purpose Citrus Solvent - Citrus Depot

[WV Sawmiller]

Bill,

   I assume you are using your tenon cutter free hand in a big drill. That is what I do and what I attribute my less than perfect cuts to. I am pretty sure we would get much better cuts if we were using a big drill press or had the TC in a big lathe. I keep hoping someone will pay me to haul off his shop kept, perfectly intact ShopSmith tool  :  and I will see if that doesn't work much better. Yours are new but be sure to keep the blades sharp on the TC. I use my chainsaw sharpener (The hand held one that looks like a Dremel tool) with a small grinding stone to sharpen mine periodically. 

[Wlmedley]

Hickory May have not been the best wood to try out cutter.Cut a couple today on pine and they looked pretty good and I checked them with a caliper and they should fit pretty good in a 1 1/2" hole.Used a 1/2 drill with a side handle.Waiting on forstner bit to try my luck on a bench.Doc was using a 18v Dewalt drill to run his tenon cutter but I don't know what kind of wood.

[WV Sawmiller]

   If not here I know I have mentioned my low opinion of Forstner bits for this kind of work. I think they are great in a drill press drilling straight down but my legs are nearly always installed at an angle and I find it very difficult to drill them with a Forstner bit. I used to use a 1-1/2" spade bit till I got my 1-1/2" auger bit thar I like much better. Either one of them can be a wrist breaker when they break through on the bottom if you don't have a scrap board under them. A scrap board also helps prevent break out when the bit exits the bench top.