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Drying Holly

Started by Rwill114, November 24, 2019, 09:07:56 AM

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Rwill114

I have a lot of holly trees available for milling so I chose one of the less desirable for drying practice. I know drying holly has been touched many times but I haven't seen anything along these lines. Just for background, the tree was felled, milled, stacked and started air pre drying all in the same day. Milling was done under cover so no sun ever saw the planks. The stack was about the size of the box fan I am using to pre dry. Temperature and humidity were about 55 degrees at 40 percent humidity with air speed of about 200ft/min. From the picture you can see blue staining everywhere but the where the stickers were. Suggestions/explanations?

FYI the photo is after one week of drying, the board has also been planned so this is beyond the surface.




doc henderson

Welcome to the forum.  It appears the blue stain is after the fact as it spares the wood under the stickers.  hmmmm.  @GeneWengert-WoodDoc .  sounds like you tried to get it done quick.  unless not enough airflow.  how tall/thick were your stickers.  air flow across the stack?
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

kelLOGg

To preserve the whiteness of holly it should be kiln dried immediately after cutting. No air drying.
I think I got that right but check it out anyway.
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

btulloh

Quote from: kelLOGg on November 24, 2019, 11:46:28 AM
To preserve the whiteness of holly it should be kiln dried immediately after cutting. No air drying.
I think I got that right but check it out anyway.
That has been my experience.
It also needs to be sawn ASAP after felling because the logs will stain almost immediately.
I have seen spalted holly that looks real good turned, but if you want the white-white holly, get it processed immediately if not sooner.
HM126

Don P

Usually reverse sticker stain is from dry stickers pulling moisture and the rest of the surface drying too slow. I'd bet that is an enzyme stain rather than bluestain, but either is from going too slow. 

Rwill114

The stickers are 1.5 in, that's what I use in my Dh kiln. The tricky thing is  I tried something new, I put painters tape on the stickers to try to avoid direct contact with the sticker (thought maybe that would help with discoloring). Tape seems relatively waterproof but I'm not sure while it's in constant contact. Guess I'll have to try again with another small test tree and go straight to the kiln.

Don P

Got me scratching my head ???, learned something new.
QuotePainter's tape is slightly thicker than ordinary masking tape, so as not to tear and leave remnants on surfaces. High-quality versions are also embedded with sponge-like polymers to absorb moisture, thereby preventing bleeding onto unpainted areas.

scsmith42

Quote from: Rwill114 on November 24, 2019, 08:23:06 PM
The stickers are 1.5 in, that's what I use in my Dh kiln. The tricky thing is  I tried something new, I put painters tape on the stickers to try to avoid direct contact with the sticker (thought maybe that would help with discoloring). Tape seems relatively waterproof but I'm not sure while it's in constant contact. Guess I'll have to try again with another small test tree and go straight to the kiln.
1.5" sticker thickness will require some very large CFM fans to provide airflow.  Industry standard sticker thickness is 3/4".
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Holly must be dried immediately after sawing a fresh log.  It must be dried  24 hours a day, which is why air drying does not work.  Holly is very difficult to keep white as a small time at high humidities when above 40% MC results in the enzymatic oxidation stain.

Indeed, the dry stickers were able to dry the wood fast enough, so there is no stain.

You may be able to whiten the wood with oxalis acid, also called wood bleach, but this is o oh a surface treatment.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Rwill114

Thanks for all the reply's. As my current dh kiln has a back log of wood to dry at a different schedule, I think I'm going to make plans for a miniature dh kiln, hopefully almost portable. If I go down this route, I'll post pics of the build and the drying results. 

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

When using a DH kiln to dry holly, you need to obtain the correct low humidity within an hour.  There is no tolerance for having the kiln heat up until the DH compressor starts working.  You also need to make sure you have enough horsepower to remove moisture fast enough.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

scsmith42

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on November 26, 2019, 06:05:01 PM
When using a DH kiln to dry holly, you need to obtain the correct low humidity within an hour.  There is no tolerance for having the kiln heat up until the DH compressor starts working.  You also need to make sure you have enough horsepower to remove moisture fast enough.
Gene, what do you recommend for a drying schedule for holly in a DH kiln?
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

K-Guy


If you are using a Nyle L53 or L200, I would recommend using the same schedule as for soft maple. They aren't the same but close enough.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

I also suggest using the soft maple schedule, except use as low a temperature as possible.

Remember, you just achieve the required humidity within a few hours after sawing to get the whitest wood.  If the settings are for low humidity, but the actual humidity is higher, bad news.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Don P

Lo temp, low humidity, dumping lots of water. Is a fanshed type of setup better to start?

scsmith42

Gene / Stan:  Thanks for the insight.  I'm thinking that for holly I'd want to only load 1K bd ft or so in a Nyle L200 in order to bring the RH% down as quickly as possible.  Maybe even less?
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

K-Guy

Quote from: Don P on October 16, 2021, 08:47:51 AMLo temp, low humidity, dumping lots of water. Is a fanshed type of setup better to start?


Only if you don't have too much air, then case hardening could happen.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

K-Guy

Quote from: scsmith42 on October 16, 2021, 11:34:02 AMI'm thinking that for holly I'd want to only load 1K bd ft

That is being very safe but you can probably load more. I would watch the first load at 1K and adjust up from there.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

scsmith42

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

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