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New Stihl Sawchain With Special File

Started by HolmenTree, August 17, 2021, 01:05:42 PM

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HolmenTree

It's been a while since I've  posted on here since I got deeply into R&D on my Honda and Yamaha bikesaw projects. And their going good BTW.

I'm not sure if these new Stihl products have been discussed on here, but here we go.

I always marvel of Stihl's new innovations.  This new style chain with special file enables a person to file a square ground type of edge as easy as using a round file.
Now the extra green safety links might throw a professional off but think of the liability Stihl would have if they promoted this aggressive style cutter on a yellow chain.

Thinks of the possibilities using the file if you are already a proficient round file hand filer.
Husqvarna introduced this style of cutter profile back when they first introduced the 572XP, but no file was offered, just  ground.

My only suggestion is to use a guide to clamp onto the file like normally used on a round file then consistent angles can be made.

I heard introduction of this file and chain is fall of 2021. But the bottom photo of the file with 2 other chisel bit files came out of a homeowner's shop in Australia.


 

 

 

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

And yes you definitely don't want to go hog wild filing down the depth gauges (rakers).
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Crusarius

That looks flat out mean. And very grabby.

HolmenTree

Quote from: Crusarius on August 17, 2021, 02:43:47 PM
That looks flat out mean. And very grabby.
That profile worked very well on the Husqvarna X Cut chain when it helped promote the introduction of the 572XP.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Old Greenhorn

Maybe I am missing something here, I can't tell for sure unless I have it on my bench, but that file looks like the same angles as the pferd 6 corner file. That pferd file is shown in your bottom photo, just on the right side.
 From the little I can see in these photos, there sure isn't much difference between that setup and a standard square grind. Does the v-notch on that chain break to the outside right where the top plate and corner plate meet?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Tacotodd

@HolmenTree it looks like all that you need is the file. If the gullet won't allow that file in right away, then you can just wait until the gullet opens enough for the file to fit, but I tried to do something similar to that with the standard 3 sided (really 6) but it didn't work so well :(. What am I missing?
Trying harder everyday.

HolmenTree

This new hexagon file is closer to a round file then the other standard chisel bit files. 
Like I said earlier I can see one of those file guides that clamp on to a round file could make this Hexa file easy to use.
I can't comment anymore on this new file until I get it in my hands to try out.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Dave Shepard

That file is an equal sided hexagon. The triangle files for square ground were truncated triangles with unequal sides. Never had a problem filing square with a double-bevel-chisel-bit-file.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Old Greenhorn

I mis-spoke above, the file I use is called a '3-corner' by pferd (even though it has 6 corners on it) or what Dave calls a 'double bevel' file. It works just as one would want for chisel sharpening. I have never tried a triangle file for chisel...yet.
 But my question is more on the chain shown there. Is it a standard chisel ground tooth or did Stihl come up with something different? Would a 3 corner file work on it?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Al_Smith

From my perception of that cutter using that chain is it isn't much different than a modified version of a standard "square filed " except the side plate goes deeper .It's something one might find on  a custom filed "race chain ..Saying that with that special file it would be easier than a standard multi beveled file which to me is a pain in the back sides and very time consuming .
I guess some people are fans of square and some are not because of the time involved .I can do a 20" loop of round chisel in about 5 minutes and were it square it would be 25 minutes at least .

Dave Shepard

If the chain isn't damaged, they should be the same amount of time. Three strokes per cutter.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

HolmenTree

This hexagon file and the 75° sideplate angle it makes is more like a race chain style like Al said.

These Husqvarna X Cut C85 chains and others with these angles is more of a European thing for 20"-24" b/c cutting high production softwood logging.
Vallorbe a Swiss file maker makes a file pictured below to also make these angles.
Stihl now has this hexa file to add to the market.
But like I said these chains are filed for small to medium stem softwood logging, not PNW old or second growth timber.


 

 

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

From the conversation this chain was obviously made for a specific  use and that being soft woods . I've got a few loops of Stihl square that Rocky J in Florida sent me .He bought a couple of rolls of it which about drove him nuts so he filed it round .I've never tried it myself .I don't think on  hard dead ash and hickory it would work out very good for me .It's very seldom I cut a live tree unless it's a hazard or nuisance .Although one of my Stihl  200T's does have rapid super which is round chisel and it has improved the cut speed .I tried filing one loop square but that didn't do as well .

Skeans1

@Al_Smith 
Square holds up just fine in the hardwoods as long as you don't end up to low with beaks. The biggest thing is how the angles of the cutters are setup to start with myself I dislike Stihl square chain one it's harder on grinding stones and two it doesn't cut any faster then Oregon of the roll.

Al_Smith

Well perhaps it does but green cut white oak and rock hard dead hickory are not one in the same .90 percent of the stuff I do are long dead ash and hickory .For that use round chisel seems to work better for me because I can file it pretty fast .The only "grinder " I have is a Dremel type only used on damaged cutters .Wire fence and rocks are kind of hard on them you know .Try as you might and careful as you are if you cut long  enough you will experience them .

Real1shepherd

Quote from: Skeans1 on August 19, 2021, 07:06:01 AM
@Al_Smith
Square holds up just fine in the hardwoods as long as you don’t end up to low with beaks. The biggest thing is how the angles of the cutters are setup to start with myself I dislike Stihl square chain one it’s harder on grinding stones and two it doesn’t cut any faster then Oregon of the roll.
Exactly and we've had this 'discussion' in here before with him. Even commercial .404 skip(like Oregon 68CJ), square file will cut hardwoods like butter as long as you have 80cc or bigger.

Kevin

Al_Smith

 :D Once again the subject is just general conversion depending on ones view point .I can't comment on trees in Washington state mainly because I've never experienced or for that matter ever seen them .Fact never been to Washington state ,have to Washington DC though .Conversely I find it hard to believe many would be able to honestly opine on wood growing in the middle of the eastern corn belt unless they've experienced them .True this conversation has gone on as long as the great debate on mix oil ratios or weather a Swedish made saw is better than a German made saw .It's all about opinions and always has been and likely will be forever . 8) 

Real1shepherd

But as I've told you repeatedly.....I had a big farm after I quit loggin' in the PNW that was in central MO. I had 120 acres of woods in the mix ..... cut Bur Oak, Black Walnut and White Oak. All using my commercial saws with skip-tooth square file chain.

But there's something mysterious about them 'special' indigenous hardwoods that come out of Ohio......lol.

Conversely, you seem to have no trouble to opine about PNW wood and the saws we use, even though you've never been out here.

Kevin

HolmenTree

Just before the time when I quit chainsaw milling when I sold my 395XP, 090AV and my Alaskan mill and slabbing rails....I tried a loop of Oregon .404 50AL chisel bit chain straight off the roll to run on the Alaskan mill.

For our festival's chainsaw speed cutting competition I milled up two 14"×10"×16 foot timbers from a couple of oversize frozen spruce logs the day before the competition due to our sawmill sponsor not able to supply the timbers.

It was about -40 below wind chill that morning,  the 090AV wouldn't run as it just iced up.
The Husqvarna 395XP loved the cold!
With that brand new Oregon chisel bit square chain on the 395 I completely milled the two 16 foot timbers plus a couple of smaller 16 foot pieces without  re-sharpening the chain!
It held an edge way longer then a round filed cutter that I have milled with .404 chisel previously over the years. I wished I had discovered milling with square ground years earlier.
It was slowing down some after the 2nd timber but I was very impressed how that factory square grind held an edge with full bark on those frozen solid logs and how faster and smoother a cut it made.


 

 

 

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

Quote from: Real1shepherd on August 19, 2021, 10:37:56 AM
But as I've told you repeatedly.....I had a big farm after I quit loggin' in the PNW that was in central MO. I had 120 acres of woods in the mix ..... cut Bur Oak, Black Walnut and White Oak. All using my commercial saws with skip-tooth square file chain.

But there's something mysterious about them 'special' indigenous hardwoods that come out of Ohio......lol.

Conversely, you seem to have no trouble to opine about PNW wood and the saws we use, even though you've never been out here.

Kevin
Well you do carry on .I can't remember ever saying anything about PNW woods fact said so in the previous post .Why should I even care what brand or size of saw or the type of chain .BTW Ohio white oak cut green is no big deal ,cuts relatively easy .Again dead hickory not so much, hard as a rock but not bad green .Having said that no I'm not going to jump on the band wagon and use square ground chisel chain .Do as you wish and I'll do the same .BTW since you mentioned it I do own several of those "PNW saws " that in fact came from the PNW .No big secret I know for a fact how they run which quite honestly ,they do good .---there miracle as it seems we do agree on something .Don't you just hate that ? :D

Real1shepherd

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 19, 2021, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: Real1shepherd on August 19, 2021, 10:37:56 AM
But as I've told you repeatedly.....I had a big farm after I quit loggin' in the PNW that was in central MO. I had 120 acres of woods in the mix ..... cut Bur Oak, Black Walnut and White Oak. All using my commercial saws with skip-tooth square file chain.

But there's something mysterious about them 'special' indigenous hardwoods that come out of Ohio......lol.

Conversely, you seem to have no trouble to opine about PNW wood and the saws we use, even though you've never been out here.

Kevin
Well you do carry on .I can't remember ever saying anything about PNW woods fact said so in the previous post .Why should I even care what brand or size of saw or the type of chain .BTW Ohio white oak cut green is no big deal ,cuts relatively easy .Again dead hickory not so much, hard as a rock but not bad green .Having said that no I'm not going to jump on the band wagon and use square ground chisel chain .Do as you wish and I'll do the same .BTW since you mentioned it I do own several of those "PNW saws " that in fact came from the PNW .No big secret I know for a fact how they run which quite honestly ,they do good .---there miracle as it seems we do agree on something .Don't you just hate that ? :D
I 'hate' that you don't remember our previous conversations. I guess that's my curse and rehashing everything for Nth time is just pedantic to me.

You're the last person in the world I would try to push into square ground chisel chain. In fact, AVOID it at all costs....with your mindset, you will always hate it. But on the other hand, I'm not gonna let you run down square ground chain as a no-no for hardwoods either......because I've cut both softwoods and hardwoods with it in two very different parts of the country. Your point about it being dead or green is irrelevant. With properly sharp square ground chain and enough cc's, it's not an issue either. I cut plenty of dry, dead hardwood on that farm.

Now that being said.....if someone in the Midwest was asking about a good saw and chain combo for their indigenous trees, I wouldn't recommend big commercial saws like I have and fitted like I have.....or the Oregon 68CJ chain either. I'd go to saw shops and find out what works for the local cutters.

My original point was there was no reason to ditch what I had and buy new saws and chain just because of a different landscape. But I believe you could find a semi-commercial square ground chain that would work on those Midwest trees beautifully. So quit acting like square ground chisel chain is a function of living in the PNW....clearly it is not and popular in many other locals. It's not just race chain, more to the point. People that say it's just for softwoods and dulls easily in hardwoods just don't what they're talking about. There a square ground chain that will work and cutter angles that will work for hardwoods.

Willard's point in starting this thread....a kissing cousin to the conventional square ground chain and even a special file for it.

Kevin

Al_Smith

Okay we in the eastern portion of the country are illiterate  idiots .Point taken. Plus anybody who is not pro feller doesn't know beans from apple butter .Did I miss anything ? ;D

Al_Smith

BTW I need to apologize .It was some time ago I said I'd never comment on another thread you were on but I digressed which I assure you it will never happen again .You're the expert go for it . :)

HolmenTree

Square ground chisel bit chain in 1952.
Patent filed July 1946.


Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Real1shepherd

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 19, 2021, 08:43:21 PM
BTW I need to apologize .It was some time ago I said I'd never comment on another thread you were on but I digressed which I assure you it will never happen again .You're the expert go for it . :)
Like I said pedantic. I never claim to be an expert on anything. You read what you want to read and ignore experience and facts. I'm trying to help people with knowledge from experience. You're trying to make me out now like I belittle people from the Midwest and the east which is completely false.Why would I....it doesn't make any sense and very little of you for saying that.

And yeah, it would be better if you didn't bait me about 2100's, west coast saw rigs and square ground chain. Grow up.

Kevin

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