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Redmax GZ5000

Started by SnoJetter, October 22, 2021, 12:33:50 PM

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SnoJetter

Here's an update. I ordered a pair of VersaCut Oregon bars (.058, .325) for these saws. Jonny-labelled bars woulda been ideal, but these bars look at home on them with their color scheme.

I haven't cut anything yet, but the plan is to make chips over this Thanksgiving weekend. This is my first experience with Autotune (or CarbControl as the manual calls it), so I've got a couple questions for clarification. Reading the manual, it says for the first start or when conditions change to run the saw under load at 8-12,000 RPM for 3 to 5 minutes. My assumption is I should still warm the saw up, but it almost reads as though I start it up and then immediately start cutting. I don't want to risk a cold seizure.  What is the proper calibration technique? And does this need to be performed EVERY time I go out to cut (presumably conditions will vary a bit day to day and I usually am only cutting on weekends, so conditions would surely change over a week's time)?  In addition, I'm often using this size of a saw for limbing, so I wouldn't necessarily have thick pieces where I can run 3-5 minutes at full throttle.  It just seems like a very long period of time at specific load/RPM is required.  Would I be screwing up the electronics/settings if I fire up the saw and trim brush to clear my escape route, or limb up the top of a fallen tree?  That sort of scenario is how I typically start rather than just dogging into the butt of a large log (which I don't tackle often anyway, more typical is 10-12 inches and the whole log might be bucked up before 3-5 minutes elapse).

Secondly, being this is my first new saw in 20 years, what is the proper break-in procedure? I'm used to the two stroke on a snowmobile and that involves varying the throttle speeds while only occasionally running up to full throttle.  On a chainsaw however, do I just bury it in wood and run 'er at full speed? Or is there a more defined process to break these things in?



 


Woodfarmer

Spike60(Bob), has a video somewhere where he shows how to tune in the AT. Runs it down the length of a log for a period of time like 30 seconds or so can't quite remember. 

Spike60

@weimedog  Walt, can you drop in that vid where we ran the 555 down the log and it cleaned up real nice as it reset? Is there a short version that just shows that procedure?

That 3-5 minute thing is certainly not practical; you'd need a 250 ft log to do that. The various "explanations" in the owners manuals over the years have caused more confusion than anything. Keep in mind, that the cut needs to be continuous; if it drops out of a cut, it has to start over. The reset procedure is really only necessary when the saw doesn't seem right. Remember the thing is resetting all the time during regular use. But if it hasn't been used in a while or you simply want to be sure it's dialed in properly, then do the cut and get to work.  :)

The 555 in the vid had sat for several years and didn't want to run at all. Without the reset cut if would have been back on the truck as it wasn't usable the way it was. But once she hooked up, the thing ran great. Made me wonder why I let it sit so long. 
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

weimedog

Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

SnoJetter

Thank you for posting the video.  Listening to that saw come to life is really eye opening!  If I understood correctly, the low is set just by letting the saw idle, while the high is reset with the 3-5 minute loaded cut.  And this is a reset to factory defaults, correct?  Otherwise, the carb is constantly tuning itself to local conditions while in use?

So...if I'm hearing/reading this right, I should just run the saw like I would any traditional carbed saw and don't worry about it, don't overthink it and just let 'er rip.  If I run into any issues, use the reset procedure.

Any advice on the break-in?  I'm thinking I just load the saw and go, using it as if it were the 20th tank of fuel not just the first or 3rd.

Spike60

Just run it and have some fun. 

The tuning cut does NOT go back to factory default settings. It is tuning to your conditions right where you are. "Custom Tuning" just for you.  :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

Was "home" this weekend visiting the folks and my dad had more chores in store for me than just cutting some wood.  Brakes on the car, store away the mowers, clean off the roof and gutters.  So not as much time throwing chips as I had hoped.  I did get a couple of tanks (almost) through one of the saws.  I suppose that means the clean one should be put on the shelf and left alone until it's a collectors item, or not...

Anyway, my first impression is extremely favorable.  I can't say it felt any different ergonomically than my 2152's and that is a very good thing.  We found some ash and walnut to salvage that was more dry than green, and the saw powered through it without a hiccup.  Considering the size of the logs and number of cuts, I was very surprised at how long the fuel lasted.  Perhaps that had something to do with fact I was running brand new chain, I don't know.

Regardless, I love the saw!  As an aside, I was also very impressed with the Oregon chain.  I've heard hit & miss reviews on it.  But after the cutting on both Friday and Saturday (again, just two tanks but salvage wood includes dirty bark and encrusted dirt from sitting on the ground) it felt just as sharp as when it came out of the box.  Plus, not discolored or any buildup on the teeth.

I'm very pleased!

Spike60

That's good to hear Jetter. But wasn't the one going on the shelf supposed to be for your Dad? :)

Reviews can be helpful, but there are times when it's best to draw your own conclusions. There are plenty of negative reviews about everything. With the chain, I have guys that will not buy anything that isn't in an Oregon box; others insist on the Husky C83/C85 chain. I just hand them what they want.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

Busted!  You're right, the second saw is supposed to go to my father-in-law...but a guy can change his mind, right?

Actually, I figured I'd run the first saw to get it broken in and then hand it off to him.  So the second one can't sit on the shelf or else I'd be without.  A little diligence in cleaning after each use, and it should look the part of a shelf queen for some time.

Just out of curiosity Bob, what's your chain preference?

Spike60

On the 3/8 chain, I prefer the C85/C83 Husky. On the .325 stuff I like the Oregon 21LGX. At some point Husky will have a full chisel .325, and I'll give that a try. 
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

I found a couple new Jonsered labeled bars (18") with chain for $24 each and decided to pick them up to have on hand for when I get a project saw running.  The chain included was Husky H30.  Haven't tried it yet, but I figure it'll cut...

Incidentally, got out to the woodlot this afternoon for a few hours.  It's about 10 acres of mixed hardwoods bordering a lake and cut off from road access by a field.  The owner gives me free reign to go in and clean up all the dead and downed trees.  There's a lot of hop hornbeam on this acreage and I know it isn't a tree that will restock the woodpile very quickly...but boy is it dense wood and makes a great fire (I have the same opinion of buckthorn, though I hate the way that tree takes over)!  I gather up as much as I can.  Anyway, all this to say I was out this afternoon and concentrated on gathering the hornbeam.  Of course, the saw of choice is the 2252, er...GZ5000.  I have to say this is my new favorite saw!  On a small tree like this, a light, maneuverable saw is nice to keep the fatigue at bay.  I will always use my 535, 2152, 026, or now the 2252 80% of the time for my cutting; this size of saw just lends itself to the smaller wood I usually tackle.  It was a joy to sling this saw around to the tune of about 1/4 cord.  Maybe I'll be able cut up another load tomorrow morning.

I'm at 3+ tanks of fuel through this saw so far.  About how long before a saw is considered broken in?

Spike60

About 10 tanks is considered broken in for these saws, so you got a way to go.

Do you have any high school or pee wee league teams in your town up there? I figure that you folks up there may have been chanting "Let's Go Brandon" long before it became fashionable. :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Tacotodd

Trying harder everyday.

SnoJetter

I'm up to 5 tanks now, so I'm getting there!

There is a legion baseball team in town.  But my kids are too young to be in HS sports, though the high school is consolidated with a hyphenated name, so the chant probably wouldn't roll off the tongue.  This little town gained some small regional notoriety last month when...someone...placed a plywood "Let's go" addition atop the town's city limit signs (all 5 or 6 of them).  Made for a good chuckle on Facebook anyway.

SnoJetter

As explained previously in this thread, I bought two of these saws last year; I used one long enough to break it in before handing it off to my father-in-law while the second one waited it's turn.  Now is the time!  Fall wood cutting season is in full swing and I've used this "new" Redmax to the tune of about 3 tanks...and my gut is telling me I have an oiling problem.
 
The first saw I ran through close to 10 tanks of fuel, so my perception of oil use was pretty "normal."  You know, 1/2 to 3/4 of a tank of oil to a tank of fuel depending on type of cutting (limbing to full on bucking or a mix of the two).  During the first run of this second saw, I was cutting up a small 40-ft tall X 8 inch or so hornbeam: dense wood, but not massive.  While bucking and limbing it, I noticed my chain was not spinning as freely after a cut.  I shut her down and sure enough the bar was hot and the chain was quite tight.  I attributed this to having just over tensioned the chain, which is uncharacteristic of me...but OK, I'm not perfect.  I loosened the chain and went back to work.  It wasn't long and suddenly my chain was too loose.  Hmmm...weird, but I re-tensioned the chain and again found it seemed excessively hot.  I took a look at the drive teeth of the chain and it definitely seemed dry.  After some more cutting, I monitored the chain and it just seemed hot and dry.  So I pulled the side cover, checked the bar's oiler hole, ran the saw without B&C installed and it indeed is spitting out oil.  I decided to swap bars just for kicks with what I had on the 2152 I'd brought along.  This seemed to work great!  The chain looked oiled and didn't get too hot.  I then put the new VersaCut from the Redmax on my 2152 and it too looked oiled and ran as it should.
 
What was weird to me was when I went to refill, the fuel tank was nearly empty but the oil tank was practically full!  I can't really estimate volume, but I'd say 2 oz is all it took to refill (the oil level was maybe an inch below the neck).  That can't be right.  And just like my "gut" says this isn't normal, the first Redmax saw I ran last year wasn't like this when I ran it in the same type of cutting: bucking and limbing small trees ranging from 6 to 10 inches.  It required significantly more oil upon a refill.  If it needed so little, I would have remembered such a discrepancy.
 
Just yesterday, I ran another tank through the Redmax while cutting the top of a large ash that went down.  This involved lots of limbing and also quite a number of bucking cuts in 10" and smaller wood.  I understand limbing means lots more idling and less oil usage than just buying the bar in wood for an entire tank.  When I finished this job, the bar was not excessively hot BUT this time it looked drier.  There was oil present, but it wasn't as "wet" looking as I'm used to seeing.  Opening the oil reservoir I found again that the level was just an inch or so low so very minimal oil needed to replenish the tank to a nearly full tank of fuel.
 
In summary from yesterday, the B&C seem fine but the oil usage just doesn't seem right based on how much I add per the amount of fuel used.  I haven't put the VersaCut back on yet but that first experience with it running hot had me concerned.  Oh, I have the oiler cranked up to the highest setting...and yes, I did double check that it was turned "up" not accidently turned "down."  Is there a way to gauge oiler output other than looking at the B&C?  Can an oiler just be "weak" even though the saw is brand new (though 4 years old by the build date)?  This doesn't seem normal to me, so could use some help in figuring out what's going on.

SnoJetter

Could really use some advice on this one.

I was visiting my in laws this weekend and ran a tank through his saw (same saw, same bar/chain combo, the one I gave him when I bought these two together a year ago that started this whole thread).  The chore was pretty much the same as described above: cutting up a couple smaller diameter trees which included limbing and bucking.  Used about 3/4 tank of fuel and I'd estimate it used 1/2 a tank of oil.  That's much more in line with what I'd expect.

So that first saw seems to be working "correctly" in my estimation.  Why is this second saw so stingy?  Plugged oil delivery line/passageway?  Bad tank filter?  Since my saw is brand new that would seem unlikely, but I suppose it could happen.  My saw is flowing oil, but an ounce or two per tank of fuel can't be right.  And these two saws certainly weren't flowing the same for the same type of work.

Real1shepherd

My suggestion is to take the bars off both saws and observe the oil flow at the source while revving each. If it's the same, your problem lies in the bar/oil holes etc. If they flow substantially different, it's a saw issue.

Kevin

lxskllr

Same oil setting? I assume they have adjustment screws. Even if they're in the same physical position, manufacturing variance could cause them to be different. If it can be adjusted to be acceptable, I wouldn't worry about it.

Real1shepherd

Well, that's just it. Don't know enough about that saw and how the oiler adjusts, if at all. But all things being equal, one oiler shouldn't significantly outpace the other.....same model, same yr etc.

Kevin

DHansen

Snojetter did say he has the oil adjust to max.  I wonder if both saws are on the same setting?  I would look into what drives the oil pump see if there is an issue with the drive or the pump.  Also as suggested take bar off both saws and compare oil out put from both with the bar removed.   If needed you could switch the pumps from saw to saw and see if the problem moves with the pump.

Spike60

Well, let me ask a different question. If the "stingy" saw is putting out enough oil that it performed the job at your inlaws without a problem, are you sure there is one? Remember the old joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says, "When I press here it hurts", and the doc says, "Then stop pressing there". :)

These oilers are not exactly precision instruments. Very simple little piston pump items. For the most part, they either work or they don't work at all. And 9 times out of 10, if there's a failure, it's the oil gear, not the pump itself. Unless the pump is loose, in which case the oil gear will be failing soon, you're probably OK. And you can feel if it's loose quite easily.

If the only thing to make you suspect there's a problem is looking into the oil tank, then your kind of over-thinking what's going on here. I do get people coming into the store now and then with this same suspicion; thinking that there's too much oil left in the tank and therefore something must be wrong. I just lift up the chain and if there's oil on it, then your good to go.

On the other hand, maybe the auto-tune carb is not working correctly, and it's dumping too much fuel into the saw and that's why there's so much oil left? JUST  KIDDING!! But see what happens when we fill in the blanks with our imaginations? :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

Just in case anyone missed it, I made two posts back-to-back (the last entry on the second page) that explains the problem in detail (maybe painful detail).  It sounds like some may have missed that.

Quote from: Real1shepherd on October 31, 2022, 05:07:51 PM
My suggestion is to take the bars off both saws and observe the oil flow at the source while revving each. If it's the same, your problem lies in the bar/oil holes etc. If they flow substantially different, it's a saw issue.

Kevin
Great idea except the saws are 200 some miles apart.  When I pulled the bar off my saw, it appeared the oil was flowing adequately for the quick revs I was giving it.  But it certainly didn't seem to be getting on to the bar as I'm used to seeing.  I had a moment where I wondered if the oiler and bar hole were lining up.  Of course they are...when I pulled the bar off, there is an oily outline of the saws oiler channel that formed a nice slot-like shape around the bar's oiler hole.   I could compare it to my 2152 as I suspect those would have similar flow.
Quote from: lxskllr on October 31, 2022, 05:25:06 PM
Same oil setting? I assume they have adjustment screws. Even if they're in the same physical position, manufacturing variance could cause them to be different. If it can be adjusted to be acceptable, I wouldn't worry about it.
Quote from: Real1shepherd on October 31, 2022, 07:27:21 PM
Well, that's just it. Don't know enough about that saw and how the oiler adjusts, if at all. But all things being equal, one oiler shouldn't significantly outpace the other.....same model, same yr etc.

Kevin

The oil output is adjusted by a screw under the saw that has three stop positions.  I always start out at the high setting and adjust down if I find that to be overkill.  I suppose I could try the other two positions to see if somehow the "high" setting is limiting oil flow due to some odd defect.

Quote from: Spike60 on November 01, 2022, 07:29:20 AM
Well, let me ask a different question. If the "stingy" saw is putting out enough oil that it performed the job at your inlaws without a problem, are you sure there is one? Remember the old joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says, "When I press here it hurts", and the doc says, "Then stop pressing there". :)
That is a good response from the doc, but in this case I may not have described the situation clearly enough.  The "stingy" saw is the one at my home place.  At my in-laws place, I was using the saw I gave him and it performed as I would expect using much more oil (roughly half a tank for the tank of fuel I ran in it) than what I'm seeing from my saw: literally an ounce or two of oil each for the two tanks of fuel I used.



WDFL

Nice saw, you got a deal.   I wish I could find one for that price, there is one vendor selling now for $499++.
Maybe I'll look for a used Jonsered 2252 which is the same saw.
I have two Husqvarna 545 MK2 saws which is the same saw in the Husky orange color - they're great machines.
LT15(S) w/GO Option
Kubota L2501 HST w/Grapple
Collector of antique 2-cylinder John Deere tractors

Spike60

Well, I did come up with another possibility on this one. Occasionally an oil line will come out of the mold with a small piece of rubber that shouldn't be there that may impede the oil flow. So, if this is truly a "can't sleep" problem you could pull the whole thing out and inspect it. 

I'm pickin' on ya, but I can be the same way myself. No matter how many saws I got, if one of them isn't right, it'll bother me.  :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Real1shepherd

If one is puny output compared to the other with the bars off, same oil output setting......I don't see you have any choice. Could easily be a visible defect of some kind........keep diggin' till you find it.:P

Kevin

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