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Can I just sand and not use planer?

Started by squarpeg, September 14, 2022, 11:04:24 AM

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squarpeg

I am building my house out of the lumber I cut on my mill. Been considering buying a planer for the floors and ceiling boards. Expensive, time consuming.  Super fine finish is not a real concern for me though. Have been considering just putting them down and running a floor sander over them. Anyone offer any thoughts on that vs. spending days behind a planer?

Ljohnsaw

Yes.  But I also need my boards to have a T&G edge so I need to send them off to a mill (2,200 LF of 2x10s).  I was all set to do that this year but might wait now til next spring.  Killer heat wave here kept me from working on the frame for over a week and now fires make the air very unhealthy.  I'm delayed about 3 weeks.  Winter is just around the corner - first snows usually by Halloween.  Predicted snow at 7,200' on Sunday :o  Anyhow, I was planning on them just doing minimal thickness planing (skip plane) as I will sand the entire floor once laid.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

doc henderson

It depends on your final finish and that is up to you.  are they of uniform thickness.  often at a knot or grain change, you can get a wave.  will they be edged?  will they just be laid side by side?  A sander may just ride over the hump.  will this be a rustic home?  you will have trouble sweeping with a broom if rough.  we have stamped concrete in our home that looks like tile.  but hard to clean.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Southside

Is there, or will there ever be a female living in the home? If so, invest in the planer and T&G the boards. This is the voice of experience talking here. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Bert

X2 on the female side of things. Its never going to be as smooth and dust resistant sanding only. I had some in my house I ripped out and redid for that very reason.
Saw you tomorrow!

bigblockyeti

Do you like the way the rough sawn wood looks?  If so, install as is.  Mechanically T&G will offer a bit more strength but this might not matter depending on the species and the thickness.

YellowHammer

One of the big issues with using rough saw dried lumber is that it is rough sawn.  When it dries it will not be perfectly flat, it will cup, warp and twist some.  Certainly, people have installed rough sawn for a few zillion years, but we really hesitate to sell rough sawn to people who want to skip the planing part, to the point we laugh and tell them when they buy it, that unless at least one side is planed, they will have a pioneer home that can be cleaned with a broom, but their Roomba will run and hide.  Also, almost invariably, they bring it back and ask its to at least plane one side which gives them flat reference surface as well as a consistent thickness.  Then of course they ask us to run it through our SLR to to get the edges clean and parallel.  Then they ask us how much it costs and why we charge the same as for S4S as S3S.  I tell them that it's the same number of passes in our machines, and our cost is almost exactly the same as if they went out and bought a planer.   :D :D :D 

I well remember one lady who insisted she get a thousand bdft of rough sawn 4/4 kiln dried red oak and talked her Dad to drive a few hours to pick it up.  As we loaded his trailer with the forklift, I told him he would be back because as soon as they tried to nail the rough sawn to the wall, and saw how hard it is to get it flat and straight, they would realize it was a "No Bueno" situation, and that's OK because I had a pack of S4S in the corner to exchange it for and I'd hold it for a week and give him time to come back, before I sold it to someone else.  He looked at me like I was crazy, and drove off into the sunset.  Just a few days later he called and asked if I still had the S4S red oak, and I said "sure, right where you saw it last."  When he showed dup, we both had a good laugh.

   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Southside

"This SHACK IN THE WOODS" is what you have been talking about"... I will never forget hearing those words.  :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Walnut Beast

Black Gold not sanded, warped or cupped 

 

 

   

muggs

A little off topic but here goes. I was at a sawmill in Ar. After drying they ran the wood through a big sander, top and bottom, and I mean big. It was several hundred horsepower, and fast. I was told that they did it that way so they would not get chipping around the knots.

tule peak timber

persistence personified - never let up , never let down

tule peak timber

For the ceiling boards you can get away with a lot. Paint your background black.
 On the flooring I would surely agree with T&G or splining to keep each board behaving properly, as stated above. No splinters in the middle of the night. That means you will need at least one face reference either top or bottom to plow your T&G or dados. That is a jointer or surfacer on each board. For flooring you will also need to straight line and produce a parallel line on the other side of each the board consistently, for at least each lay. Typically, I use 5 different widths for a floor job. We individually glue in each knot, first bottom, then the top on each board and this might take weeks, then sand or skip sand.
 So, A rough sawn floor with hand sanding and a SLIGHTLY uneven surface is probably the best look we sell.
  Two weeks ago, our main planer crapped out and between the jointer, resaw, and sander we are not skipping a beat. 
 Squarepeg, your name makes sense to me as we never, ever drill a round hole!
    
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Old Greenhorn

NOPE!
 I only did that because it was a tongue in check opportunity to make it look like I was taking exception to Rob's opinion, which I am not because A) he knows this stuff, and 2) I have way too much respect for his opinion.
 However I did want to point out that for a floor, regardless of finish (Sanding. planeing, whatever), the key is the boards have to all be the same thickness to the point your bare feet you can feel the difference. This is the make or break for me. If it's not fully dried when you nail it down, it will change. Sanding after laying may help, but planeing before laying down will make sanding go a lot faster.
 I have done a couple of 'test floors' in my shop for fun to test these thoughts out and learned a few things. I have a few more to do before I'm satisfied. ;D
 You could also consider shiplap as an easier alternative to T&G. I have used that and am happy with it for the designed purpose.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Larry

Try it, might be a new trend!

I was in a 6,000 square foot custom house that the premier builder in NW Arkansas was building a couple of years ago.  It had a really nice random width quarter sawn oak floor.  He had a crew of six scraping across the grain with Stanley 82 scrappers.  They were ripping pretty good, no way would one want to walk across it barefoot.  I asked him why anybody would pay a million plus for something with this style of floor.  His answer was "Its today's style".

I'm in YH's camp.  Face joint the boards, plane, and edge after the lumber has been kiln dried to 6% for floors.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

tule peak timber

I intentionally skip the "planer" on almost all of the work I do.Doors, floors, walls, box beams, mantles,architectural trim,,,,,,,Not always but most of the time.
  Never make a round hole.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

doc henderson

the old square buff huge random orbital sander might do ok, to flatten between boards.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

kantuckid

When I redid my two 20' long porches in ERC, I floored them with 1x6 ERC that was planed on the bad side to even the thickness then I lightly sanded the good, bandsawed side with 180 grit and DA sander. I also did a 1/8" bevel on the two top edges for the best look and to pull off any splinters.
Most of the companies in the "barnwood business" make a skip planed product as they have lots of irregular boards plus it goes with that market esthetically. 
I'd get a planer or know somebody pretty well who has one. Even though I worked in Vo-tech schools with planers I used daily, when I was building my home I took 3-4MBF of EWP to a mill that had a S4S planer to run my millwork wood. It costed like $65 an hour in 1980 at a time I was broke, but it also ran thru in only a few minutes of my precious time while self-building a home and working a FT job with three babies around.
 Same story for my EWP wall paneling and 2x6 ceiling T&G, I took my wood to a millwork company and had them run it. One hour over, another day back. 
Lots of folks lived on dirt floors but doesn't make it a great choice? But it probably felt good on yer feet in warmer seasons.  
If the floors are not real even you'll trip when you get old like me. :D
It's all about money, time and esthetics. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

barbender

I have some skip planed t&g oak flooring in our house. The molder leaves a really sharp corner on the boards, so anywhere there were low spots would leave a sharp edge standing on the adjoining board. I ended up beveling all of it as I installed it. I can't remember if I used a block plane or an RO sander. 
Too many irons in the fire

tule peak timber

No matter what the architects and designers want, we always spec a micro bevel on any T&G product. If it is the single back reference, I described earlier, my favorite is the little Japanese curved plane, or even a bowel scoop to chase the edges.
 Another thing no one has mentioned is after a referenced T&G job, the rough top face can be hit with a hand power planer to skip plane then sanded to "comb the grain out " before finishing. Looks terrific with multiple tones of colorant.
  Any of the ways in production of textured or 3D wood flooring /paneling are much more time consuming that just planeing. I won't even get into Dryness, acclimation, underlayment, ways to fasten.........Food for thought :)
 So going back to the original post: cheaper to buy a small planer/ +knives , less time to have someone else do it for you.

 

persistence personified - never let up , never let down

kantuckid

Quote from: barbender on September 15, 2022, 10:36:15 AM
I have some skip planed t&g oak flooring in our house. The molder leaves a really sharp corner on the boards, so anywhere there were low spots would leave a sharp edge standing on the adjoining board. I ended up beveling all of it as I installed it. I can't remember if I used a block plane or an RO sander.
I used a block plane on my ERC. Much faster than even my small trim router on soft wood. The 40+ yr old EWP mantle over my stone fireplace was given the hewed look via my drawknife and stained with aniline dye then re-sanded to make it look old. Back then I had no power planer to use, wish I'd had one back then but they weren't invented yet :D. 
I'm currently placing a 3/4" bevel on both interior sawn/cut edges of my EWP D-logs with a trim router, a truly handy dandy invention as well.  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

low_48

Quote from: Walnut Beast on September 14, 2022, 05:54:04 PM
Black Gold not sanded, warped or cupped  

 

 

 
No one would ever convince me that rough sawn walnut looks better than surfaced and sanded.

tule peak timber

Referenced back, mostly planed, eased edge walnut, "rough look" walnut. About 2500 SQ ft.

 

 
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

YellowHammer

That is a pretty floor.  

Maybe interesting to some people, we have a guy who will not build with rough sawn lumber unless it is processed.  He will plane both side, heavy in the bottom to get a flat back reference surface than a 50% hit or miss on the top to "thickness it".  He likes circle mill sawn wood because of the deep gouges that won't plane out with a light skip plane on the top.  

Then he will T&G it and put it down as flooring.  Then he will get a floor sander and put on a very fine disk to buff out any of the sharp edges, but not enough to remove the saw marks and stuff. 

 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

tule peak timber

Yup,,,bingo !Skip the planer all together and surface just the bottom for reference.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

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