Otters and Ponds

stavebuyer · February 05, 2023, 01:19:17 PM

So, it appears I have some new residents helping themselves to the fish in my stocked pond. From the looks of the "scat piles" on the bank they have been feasting for a while.

At least 10 sq/ft of the bank is covered in otter scat. Fish scales very evident. My stunted bluegill problem is no more, Wonder if they will completely wipe out the fish?

doc henderson · February 05, 2023, 01:57:04 PM

my wife loves Otters.

Southside · February 05, 2023, 02:04:40 PM

A friend had a small, commercial, trout and salmon hatchery, otter moved in one year and decimated a pond. Had no other choice than to permanently relocate said otter.

WV Sawmiller · February 05, 2023, 02:25:45 PM

The last 2 years I have had issues with otters stealing catfish off my lines on our local COE lake. Twice I saw them on the surface thrashing around trying to get the fish off. Once it was about a 3 lb channel cat and he was not injured too bad and I kept him. The last time was a 7 lb flathead with his belly ripped open and I threw him on the bank for the otter to finish his meal. Another time I pulled up a head off about a 5 lb blue cat. I have no idea how many live bream I used for bait that were stolen.

I love to watch them and don't mind sharing an occasional fish with them but if they were in a private pond I had paid to stock I would be less thrilled.

I'm betting they will thin your pond till it is not worth the effort to chase the remaining small fish then leave and return in a few years when they have built back up to an easy meal level again.

barbender · February 05, 2023, 02:35:38 PM

I love otters, but this is about the equivalent of a weasel living in the chicken coop. I'd relocate him/them, live or otherwise.

KEC · February 05, 2023, 08:24:30 PM

I have no personal experience with otters, but I think they say that much of what you are seeing is "otter vomit" from the otters disgorging the scales and bones of fish. I once had a guy ask me to help with "muskrats" in his trout ponds. There were numerous rat holes in the banks and, at times, the water was roiled and murky. I set a bunch of traps and caught 0 rats. The day I went to pull the traps I had a big male mink in a trap. I fiqure the mink ate all the rats and the roiled up water was from the mink chasing the trout.

Otis1 · February 05, 2023, 08:33:35 PM

It's more interesting than that. Otters have "latrines" they frequent to do their business and be social. I found one once on the edge of a lake that was probably a 50' x 50' area at least.

KEC · February 06, 2023, 08:31:19 PM

WV, what is a "COE" lake? In places that I've been a sure sign of the presence of otters in a lake is a bunch of fresh water clam shells where otters sat on a rock to eat clams.

WV Sawmiller · February 06, 2023, 09:52:04 PM

COE = Corps of Engineers

USACE = US Army Corps of Engineers. (Another term you may see.)

They built the Bluestone Dam here for flood control on the New River creating Bluestone Lake. The Dam is just downstream from where the relatively small Bluestone meets the New River. The New River is considered my many to be the second oldest river in the world and one of the few that flows north. Our dam is about 1/4 mile above where the uncontrolled Greenbrier River joins the New River.

During flood periods they can stop or slow the water in the New River at the dam for a limited time while the Greenbrier floods. Hopefully the Greenbrier will start to ebb before they have to start releasing the water from the lake before it overflows the dam. We often have flood water held back to the point after the flood you will see drift piles 40' up in the trees along the lake.

This protects Charleston and other cities north/downstream of us.

Jeff · February 06, 2023, 10:06:00 PM

It can almost me assured, if I ever improve my pond, I'll get an otter visit. I know they live right across the road. I saw one traversing the woods one early October probably 10 years ago on my other property

doc henderson · February 06, 2023, 10:11:37 PM

most of the lakes in the Midwest are not natural but man made. I sailed at lake George in NY and nearly every foot of shore was owned by someone. had to pay to launch and take out sailboat. In Kansas, most of the shore is owned by the COE. so you cannot cut a tree down without permission from them. people who own houses, have beaches and docks owned by the COE and pay rent. it helps with conservation, but also someone is makin some revenue.

barbender · February 06, 2023, 10:37:18 PM

One time a buddy and I were making a deer drive. I had him standing on a ridge above a large pond. So as he's waiting, he heard something crashing from behind him. He looks over his shoulder, and here comes an otter bouncing toward him. It got about 10' away so my buddy turned around to face it, and the otter froze. They stood there staring at each other for a bit, finally my buddy moved to the side a little and the otter bounced on by😊 He had somewhere he needed to be I guess😂

Jeff · February 07, 2023, 08:55:03 AM

Those are the times that hunters love and always remember, not the actual hunt.

barbender · February 07, 2023, 09:44:18 AM

That is true Jeff, and some of the worst hunts make the best memories👍

Old Greenhorn · February 07, 2023, 09:52:22 AM

Or the longest lasting memories. ;D I had one hunt that was not pleasant wherein I mis-judged the weather conditions and had miserable frozen feet and a cold back, then I got cornered up against a rock cliff by a pack of coy-dogs. I also sa nothing huntable that day.
Still, it was better than a good day at work so....

WV Sawmiller · February 07, 2023, 09:52:50 AM

It is common to find an otter slide in the mud or snow. They are very playful and will find a slick bank and repeatedly run above and slide down. When they are playing they sound like a bunch of birds chirping.

Yes the COE own the lake and all the land from the high water mark down. My wife is a free lance photographer and she goes with me to check my catfish lines then we just "run the river" taking pictures of the deer in the water, eagles, osprey, herons, minks, etc. We often take visiting friends up the lake to see and take pictures. She does workshops and we were interested in taking small groups up there for photo opportunities and training. We tried to get permission from the COE to do so which would be a requirement. They just would never answer. I don't think they care, they just don't want to commit. We probably never pushed it enough. The idea mostly failed due to insurance costs being prohibitive - another case of the lawyers ruining a good plan.

barbender · February 07, 2023, 09:16:36 PM

A friend posted a video today on Facebook, she was just out on a snow covered county road and there was an otter sliding itself down the road. It went by, right next to her car. It looked like it was having a great time😊

KEC · February 07, 2023, 11:13:47 PM

Here in Central NY there are several reservoirs that were built to provide reserve supply of water for the Erie Canal. They are now under the authority of the New York Thruway Authority. Most of the shoreline is privately owned, so access is difficult. If there is no public access then the DEC will not stock any fish. A natural lake outlet was dammed up when they built the reservoirs to increase the water in the lake. Many private property owners there believed that the lake was private. There was a lot of conflict there for a while until the state made it clear that the lake and the land under it is public. One private owner got into a conflict with some other private owners so the one willed their land to the state stipulating that it become a state park. You should have heard the whining when there was a public meeting about the state park. The dust has since settled.

WV Sawmiller · February 08, 2023, 10:42:47 AM

I have heard similar disputes when some landowner along a stream or lake where there was an old community boat landing would suddenly restrict or charge people to launch their boats. People would say "It is a public lake/stream and you can't keep me off it or charge me to get to it." The owners would then, rightly reply "Yes, it is a public stream/lake and I am not charging you for using it but it is private land to get to it and I can charge you a fee or prevent you for/from crossing it."

beenthere · February 08, 2023, 01:33:42 PM

In Wisconsin, access to public waters cannot be denied.

Jeff · February 08, 2023, 02:56:33 PM

Beyond a public access it can't be allowed? Lakes in Michigan without public access are private. Public access would include a navigable waterway.

WV Sawmiller · February 08, 2023, 04:56:54 PM

The areas I am familiar with have plenty of public access boat landing free of charge and they are navigable streams. These places were generally open to the public till someone abused the privilege and the owner got tired of trash dumping, gates left open, camp fires and cut down trees and put a stop to it or a new owner bought the land. Same as we have discussed with hunting and ATV access that were open than closed due to abuse or a new owner.

I can't blame a landowner for wanting to recoup some of his costs or profit from his land as long as he is doing so legally.

Mooseherder · February 08, 2023, 08:37:20 PM

We had a couple here this afternoon.
River Otters raiding the Pond - YouTube

KEC · February 08, 2023, 09:50:33 PM

I'm guessing that those otters were too cheap to pay an access fee. (?) :D

Otis1 · February 08, 2023, 11:37:51 PM

Public/ private lakes certainly differ between states. I believe, in Wisconsin any navigable waterway/ lake is owned by the state up to the Ordinary High Water Mark(OHWM). (There may be a minimum size?) A tax bill will tell you a whole lot about whether you're being taxed for the water acreage or not.

For example my parents live on a "private lake" with no public access, however the lake is still technically state property. It is around 80 acres; if some rich person wanted to land a float plane or helicopter and fish, technically that's legal.