What is a swinging dutchman and how does it work?

[abrogard]

I have been trying to find out exactly what a 'dutchman' is, or 'swinging dutchman'  (if they're not the same things) and it's surprisingly hard.

Even chatgpt couldn't do it for me.  I told me at once stage the dutchman was cut into the hinge opposite the lean and  when I objected that side would be in tension is switched over to saying you cut in the compression side. Like it doesn't know.

And I just saw a vid with a guy showing us him falling a tree with a dutchman and claiming he felled it  180 degrees from its lean.  No wedges, ropes, nothing.

Can anyone explain or provide a link to a clear explanation?

I went here but it didn't help me much: https://www.osha.gov/etools/logging/manual-operations/felling/cuts/unacceptable-practices

[Old Greenhorn]

I did not understand some of the references in your post, like what is a 'chatgpt', but no matter, this is an advanced cut system requiring the knowledge of a human who actually does it.
You probably want to ask @Skeans1 that question.

[trapper]

A search on the forum in this area should find a topic on it.  I rememb.er reading one on it in the past.  Sorry  I am not good on searches on here.

[Andries]

I am a Dutchman and only really swing on special occasions. 
Born in the Netherlands in 1952 and have been on chainsaws since my early teens.
The cut method involves a flat spot on the opening face, which causes the tree to fall into it's natural lean, but then use that falling energy to re-direct to the desired fall line.
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHWnbO4pQqA 
Its more of a Wet Coast kinda thing and the most predictable part of it is that everybody remembers what it's called.
Dutch Elm disease.
Going on a Dutch date.
Dutchman in-fill for woodworking.
Having a Dutch Uncle.
It's a racist *DanG world.

[Nealm66]

We call it either a swing cut or a Dutchman. A swing cut is where you want to fall a tree sideways and a little back from its lean without wedging. You want to be backside to start, and start your undercut where there will be strong holding wood. Keep cutting until you've captured some of the downhill lean. Then finish your undercut at the desired aim leaving a Dutchman on the low side. Then start your back cut so as to steer the tree towards your captured lean going kinda slow and making sure you leave plenty of holding wood. Then start cutting the low corner off and steer it to desired aim point. Easier done than explained lol. You can also create a similar effect by shoving a kicker ( piece of the undercut)in the low side as it's falling and have the lower corner cut close. Hope this makes sense 

[g_man]

I'm just an old bumbler in the woods but I like to use a dutchman once in a while to lay a tree where I want it instead of it's natural fall direction. I find it especially useful on smaller trees where there isn't much room for wedging. I cut a humboldt notch in the desired falling direction. Then I make a cut into what will be the hinge on the natural falling or compression side of the tree. On the back cut I start at the cut into the hinge and walk it around leaving as much holding holding wood on the tension side as needed to make the tree fall where I want. As you cut, the hinge is collapsing on the compression side where you cut it and will want to pinch your saw so use the end of the bar. Here is an example that I cut last winter. A smallish YB that leans to the left and has two main branches (not visible at first) also on the left. I want it to go straight ahead. You can see the stump at the end. It tells a lot.  Just remember I'm no professional, just old and slow.

https://youtu.be/1cFBO95wtMM

gg

[doc henderson]

Well Andries, if the wooden shoe fits!  great video and helpful in understanding.

[Nealm66]

Ya, there's definitely limits on which trees it will work on. The holding wood has to be strong enough to not break off when it's at its captured lean. I would also say this is more applicable in a production environment where there's no huge worry if it doesn't swing and breaks off. 

[Nealm66]

I put it in the class of the more you use it the more you're less likely to use it. I've worked with some guys that did and was never too impressed. Kickers on the other hand work similar but are more for precision. Like having a bushy tree out in front that's going to screw up your lead, gun it to the outside but have a kicker to push it back after it's pushed through the limbs of the bushy tree in front. Not sure if I'm explaining very well 

[rusticretreater]

Cool technique to try.  Always satisfying to put the tree right where you want it.

[Larry]

We talked about it when I took Game of Logging training. Soren Erickson demonstrated and explained why it worked but often failed. His advice was not to use it as there are other ways with a far greater success rate. Based on his explanation I never tried it.

[Hogdaddy]

Well, I didn't know what a swinging dutchman was, and now I do. And I've been using it for years, just didn't know it. I always just called it swinging the tree. You can use it on hardwood up to a point, it works better on poplar here. It works a little on oak, as long as it not too big with a heavy top. 

[Nealm66]

Ya, there's definitely a place for it. Those little whips , tall little trees like 4" but 40-50 feet tall that lean back in your strip on a steep hill side. Too much to push and too small to drive. If you flip them down the hill you've just created a slide for everything you wanted to keep on the hillside. That's where a swing cut really shines. 

[Skeans1]

When using them it normally pull something around either from lean or as a belly you need to roll around to save out more wood. There's a few versions that work for different situations a hard Dutchman will not pull as far as something like a soft faced Dutchman but they are a step style face allowing the tree to roll, if you can figure out the side cast or the amount of back lean vs the lay you can be accurate. Another fun one for special occasions is a sizwheel which has another face in your face normally where a root is to really pull something around, but none of these are a replacement for a jack or a set of cables up in the tree on a back leaner that's in a bad spot.

[David B]

@nealm, what is a kicker? Thanks

[Nealm66]

A kicker is just chopping a corner piece of the undercut and shoving it back in the side you want it to direct the tree from. It's nice if you're working with questionable hold wood and not sure if it's going to follow the face or break off and drift or if you're rubbing hard through timber and either act like a swing cut or stick it in if it looks like it might drift a little. I liked it because your not committed like a swing cut. Learned it from the old guys I worked with.

[AndyVT]

I tried for the first time (and succeeded) using a swing cut on a leaning hemlock that wanted to fall on my skid road. I was able to swing it about 20 feet uphill of its preferred fall. Very handy technique.

[Skeans1]

@nealm, what is a kicker? Thanks

Normally a kicker is used for getting the butt of the tree on the ground fast in combination with a narrow face. Another place they're used is for a mismatched face cut to get the tree to do multiple things or with a conventional humboldt face or block style face. Changing the depth the shape as well as the angle can all change the time as welll as the affect to the tree being cut. Scarf is another type of addition that can adjust the timing of the stuff with different effects.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Sure its a technique that CAN work for you.   But without getting into woods its better to try with and what will likely not work, Ill just say this.       Only try it where  if it fails you don't hit something you don't want to.  Cause it will OFTEN not work.   Better to depend on your wedges and sound proven techniques you can count on.   We all know even then lots can happen unexpectedly.   Thats my 2 cents worth.

[quilbilly]

I won't speak for your trees BCC but out west the Dutchman is a proven technique that is sound and will work. It can save time and effort and is often used to save out wood, especially when bucking tree length in the mountains. 

We have all developed things that work for us in our respective areas and the Dutchman is one of those techniques that works. Especially if you hate pounding wedges