bolt on more power for my Stihls??

2strokesmoke · August 31, 2004, 02:56:26 PM

This is my first post guys, so take it easy on me.
I have two saws, both new in Spring of 2004. I have a 210C and a MS440. I've don't really want to go too nuts and send these saws to a custom shop. However, I would like to know what kind and where to get bolt on goodies to squeeze a little more snort out of each of these saws. Mufflers? Carb mods? What should I do? I do mostly private felling and bucking, mostly for firewood. I have ordered a log jack from a local store to help with the bucking. I have replaced the factory safety chains with more agressive chains from the local Stihl shop. Thanks for your help. This looks like a great site with tons of great people and information.

Coot · August 31, 2004, 03:58:20 PM

if there newer stihls i belive they have a catalytic converter , i would remove that and free up the muffler a bit and maybe richen the fuel a bit and try a hotter plug , just my ideas , maybe they guys that have been running them longer then i have know a bit more then i do

Bobcat_pa · August 31, 2004, 07:28:07 PM

2Stroke: What is your hands-on level? When I see you putting more aggressive chains on the 440, I hope you have the experience to control this machine. I read this thread as you being a new user of chain saws. I am not being offensive; just raising a question on safety. bob

Coot · August 31, 2004, 08:00:06 PM

bob , i think he ment first time poster , he did mention he did private felling , not to get a fight goin or anything

2strokesmoke · September 01, 2004, 07:08:07 AM

First time poster, not new to saws. I worked forestry and silviculture for years and grew up on a 200 acre tree farm in central Minnesota. Now I use my saws on my property and family properties, so by private or personal use I just meant that these saws are not earning me money, just firewood. These are the first two saws that I personally own. All the other saws I've used have either been my dad's or company saws. So yes, I know how to handle a 440 with a real chain. Be comfortable with it but treat it with lots of respect and don't do anything risky or stupid. I've always been a Stihl guy since that's all I've really ever used. I've used a couple Husky's over the years that I borrowed from family members, but those saws just didn't do it for me. I think the Husky is a good, respectable saw, and I think that Stihl and Husky are neck and neck for quality and reputation. Its just a personal preference thing. Anyway, I'm getting long-winded here. These saws, my 210C and 440, are brand new this year. So they probably have cats, huh? Who makes a good aftermarket muffler for each of these saws? I assume I should adjust the carb a little richer to keep the engine happy once I add a higher flow muffler, right? Is a muffler on a stock saw going to add a power amount that the stock clutch can handle? Basically I'd like to hear about bolt on modifications that will give me a little more power and performance. I'm not looking for a competition saw here, just a little more snort. Thanks again guys!

abeyanko414 · September 01, 2004, 07:25:12 AM

Superior hey?

where 'bouts, Superior the city or around the Superior area??

I am just down the pike a bit in Highbride on 13.

I am liking your topic alot. I am pretty new here as well. I am in the situation you are as I've cut alot of firewood and a lot of trees but just bought my first saw a month ago, I plan on buying a MS440 as soon as I find a way to get it past customs, and by that I mean my wife. I am just kidding, she's pretty good about me having my toys.

Do you like that 440?

2strokesmoke · September 01, 2004, 08:03:58 AM

Superior the city. I smuggled my 440 and 210C in and told the wife about it afterward. Same way I got my diesel pickup!

She's pretty cool about my need for toys as well.
I got the 210C at first when I was just cutting some limbs and small trees around my place. It was plenty of saw for that, and the price was right. But then I was getting asked to do some clear cuts and thinning at a couple different properties that family members own, and I quickly found the limits of the 210C. It is a great little saw, but it is what it is. I'd buy it again in a second. It just has its limitations with only 2 horse.
So back I went to get another saw. I didn't want to just step up a little bit. They were trying to sell me on a 360, which probably would have gotten me by. But I don't like just getting by, I like power to spare. So up I went to the 440. Great power to weight ratio, lighter than the 460 and only 0.5 horse less (that's what I'm trying to gain back by starting this thread here). I've been nothing short of thrilled with that 440. It is a great saw, light enough to be comfortable all day, lots of power, bar lengths up to 32 inches. For what I do, it seems to be the ultimate saw. The 880, for what I do, would have been too much money and just straight up overkill, and too heavy. The 440 seems to be a nice, moderate weight, hot rod saw (so-to-speak) in the Stihl family. I'm sure there are plenty of other opinions about what saw is right for what application, but I'm sure no one would disagree that the 440 is a heck of a respectable saw. I like the 440 so much that I seldom use the 210C anymore. I just reach for the big hammer right away. The 440 just does everything better than the 210C. I usually hand off the little saw to a helper and let them do smaller tasks with the 210C.

Bushwhacker · September 01, 2004, 08:17:13 AM

2strokesmoke,
Stihl sells a dual port muffler cover that works pretty good.
My 460 factory cover had one small outlet. The dualport is better and if your 440 is under warranty, Stihl's cover won't void it. I don't have the part number anymore,but a good parts guy will know what you're talking about or maybe someone on here knows the #. Good Luck.
P.S. You may want to check RPMs and see if carb needs adjusting.

2strokesmoke · September 01, 2004, 08:23:08 AM

What kind of power gains can I expect with the Stihl dual port muffler on the 440? Do they (or anybody) make one for the 210C? Are other aftermarket mufflers considered better than the Stihl dual port ones?

Bushwhacker · September 01, 2004, 09:03:20 AM

I don't know how much gain there is wih the muffler cover. I've read somewhere that the dual ported mufflers add about 10%hp. There are people who port mufflers on this and other forums as well as the pro shops. The cover from Sthil was $35.00 or so. Kinda like when you get your first car or truck the first thing you do is put dual exhaust on Nobody seemed to know how much it helped powerwise but we did it. Seemed to help. Then we built our engines from there.
Seems exhaust flow is a pretty big thing and the EPA keeps making manufacturers squeeze them down more and more.
There was no way IMHO that a 460 could survive shoving exhaust out a hole the size of a pencil. Ms 210 - I'd just open up the muffler or get a dual port muffler.

Coot · September 01, 2004, 08:07:40 PM

ok on the topic of dual port mufflers can i get one for a old 08s chain saw 56cc if that helps

abeyanko414 · September 01, 2004, 09:29:20 PM

On my Stihl, I've had the muffler off, and I didn't see anything that looked like a cat. It was basically a metal box with basic sound deadening baffles in it.

However, perhaps the bigger Stihls have cats on them. I may have overlooked it also.

2strokesmoke · September 02, 2004, 08:14:31 AM

I'm going to have to take my mufflers off this weekend and check this out. I think dualport mufflers and carb adjustments should give me the kick in the pants I'm looking for.

abeyanko414 · September 02, 2004, 08:29:37 AM

Let me know how much those mufflers run you.

2strokesmoke · September 02, 2004, 09:22:12 AM

Well, I called the local Stihl shop, who has a good reputation, and they didn't help much. They said that the new saws only come with catalytic converters on the California models. The only muffler choices he said that his catalog showed was either a stock muffler or the California cat version. No dualport. He didn't know what I was talking about. Looks like I need more help here. Who sells chainsaw performance parts?

Dean Hylton · September 04, 2004, 10:32:29 PM

if you want to play a little 8) You can do 2 things for fun. 1 pull the jug and take the gasket out and reassemble it with a good quality gasket sealer. Before you do though take a dremmel and carve a thin line around the bottom of the cylinder, dead center all the way around to hold the sealer. This will boost your compression. 2 take a 3/16" drill bit and punch 6 holes in the front plate of your muffler and let her rip. Loud but very effective. If you want to open the flow up even more; go ahead and rip out the box inside the muffler. Now I am not saying this is going to be good for your warrenty :

but hey if you want just a little more scoot... oh and when you are done you will have to reset your carburetor of course. ;D

Shannon_Billman · November 04, 2004, 08:22:13 PM

I wuold suggest do not ruin a good saw ,you do not just go putting holes all over that would ruin the flow out of the exaust port .you paid good $ for that saw so if you really want some grunt listen.I went from an old 2100 homelite with 7.2 cubes 42"bar to a new MS660 magnum 36"bar & boy was I dissaointed . poped the cylinder off &did a light port job ,then the hole in the muffler i drilled about just half its size bigger in the same hole .the hole now is about a half inch in diameter ,take the baffle out .I put the saw back together ran it wide open shut it off checked the plug "little lean" richened it up tested again.mind you do not free rev put it in some wood when you run it open on tuning .this time the plug was choclate colored DEAD ON . I put the plug back in LET IT RIP saw was now worthy.me & my father are in the tree service business together .I am an arborist so most the time I drop the tree to him and he uses the 660 on the ground <you should have seen the look on his face after he used the saw with my tune up "very impressive " I take H.P. over a warranty any day. my MS310 20" is next but I can tell you this .My new ms200 16" needs nothing veeeeery state of the art piece .not a more powerfull arborist saw in the world !!!!!!!! .If you need a quality port job send it to me .alot of these performance saw shops are over priced dont spend over $ 40.00 for a good port job.

dozerdan · November 04, 2004, 09:14:58 PM

Hi
What does light porting consist of?
How much did you mill off of the cylinder base?
How many thousands do you now have between the top of the piston and the combustion chamber?
Why cant you rev the saw, out of the wood?
Your outlet hole in your muffler is way to small, you will need an outlet hole of between 100-125% of the exhaust port size for proper flow.
Later
Dan

Chris J · November 05, 2004, 12:53:32 PM

2stroke: For the dual port muffler you might try cheapstihlparts. I haven't purchased from them, but I have accessed their site thru eBay & did a little browsing. If you're not sure just what you're looking for it might be a good idea to give them a call. There are also some saw builders & mechtechs that can sell you a modified muffler (bolt it on, run your saw, & adjust the carb as needed). I don't want to break any rules here, but a certain well-known builder has posted on this thread ;). If you have warranty concerns be sure to keep a stock muffler to put back on the saw if you need to take it in to the Stihl shop.

Just realized there's a thread here on Walkerized mufflers!

Y'all be careful.

jokers · November 05, 2004, 01:32:18 PM

Yeah, I can`t imagine anyone doing much work to a saw for $40. Not that a good job should cost alot just to be considered good, but how far into an engine can you get for 40 bucks? Another thing that seems odd is your method of tweaking the carb, running the saw, and then reading the plug. Is that the best way that you know how to tune a carb? What about all the time that you ran your saw lean with this method? What if your first indication was that your carb was too rich so you leaned it out. It would take a lot of running lean to make the plug lighter, meanwhile your hammering your engine and hunting for a lean sieze. Always curious to hear more though, maybe I can learn something.

Russ

HORSELOGGER · November 07, 2004, 05:40:25 PM

Russ, I think your question is answered by the statement" I'll take H.P. over waranty any day"

Dan, if he gave out all that info, any old body could just run around with a dremel, charging 40 bucks, makin ms310 hotsaws

ehp · November 07, 2004, 08:06:59 PM

it doesnot matter but this is my feelings on muffler mods, 85% is max , of your port area, bigger than that you are going to loss to much back pressure and your saw will lay down on you in a big hard cut, on a stihl all I use is a dual port muffler when making them a ported woodsaw, that is all you need , gives you go power and not real noisey

Erick · November 07, 2004, 11:12:21 PM

Just my two cents (this site has to have gotten at least a dollar by now) :D I am not a saw builder and dont run race saws so please keep in mind that these guys know alot more about these saws than I do. I'm just a guy who wanted to tinker a little and get some more power out of my saw. I recently bought a used MS460 to play with (didn't want to mess up the 046) I just opened up the muffler on it the other day. I used a dremel tool and ground out the metal around the standard 3/8 round exhaust port to make a square outlet about 70 to 75% the size of the cylinder exhaust port. I started on the small side since I can always take some more off but its real hard to add it back on, I may open it up more later. I basicly ground out the metal back to the shroud that directs the exhaust flow and up to the top of the muffler where it starts to make the corner bend and to the front just a little past the lip of the shroud (kinda hard to explain may try to post a pic.) .It looks pretty slick almost factory and the shroud that directs the exhaust flow still works as it is should. I also drilled three holes 11/64 in dia. (it was the bit I had handy) in the shape of a triangle in the plate inside the muffler right in front of the cylinder port to kinda strighten out the flow a little (dont know if it helped just going for what I know). Readjusted the carb. and put it to the wood. 8) The saw is a tad louder but it also has a noticable gain in power.

I kinda like this more power same saw concept I might be looking for a good port job soon ;) any takers??

Dan, why such a big port?? just a ? from a novice not trying to start anything just always trying to learn.

dozerdan · November 08, 2004, 06:32:14 AM

It makes a huge difference as to the port location. If the additional outlet port in the muffler is directly in front of the exhaust port in the barrel, it should be made smaller. I don't do that. If you look at the picture, you will see that my port is in the lower bracket. The exhaust has to exit the barrel. make a 90% downward turn then make another 90% turn to exit the barrel. Those two direction turns create enough backpressure for the saws to run correctly.
Later
Dan

jokers · November 08, 2004, 07:02:39 AM

Quote It makes a huge difference as to the port location. If the additional outlet port in the muffler is directly in front of the exhaust port in the barrel, it should be made smaller. I don't do that. If you look at the picture, you will see that my port is in the lower bracket. The exhaust has to exit the barrel. make a 90% downward turn then make another 90% turn to exit the barrel. Those two direction turns create enough backpressure for the saws to run correctly.
Later
Dan

Similar to a "head" loss when calculating pipe flow I believe. I`ve found similar results dependent on port location.

Russ

dozerdan · November 08, 2004, 07:36:22 AM

Hi
You also have to into consideration that my mufflers use a spark screen. If you make the port to the dimensions that I stated you can still use the screen and have the same effect as a port of smaller size without the screen.
Later
Dan

ehp · November 08, 2004, 08:53:20 AM

that was what I figured you were going to say ;D

2strokesmoke · November 30, 2004, 10:29:06 AM

Well since I started this thread I figured I should get back in here. I haven't had a chance to modify my saws yet. I had a good year of use out of them both (210C and MS440). They are now stored for what I assume will be the whole winter. Due to budget, I think I'll first put a 32 inch bar and larger dogs on the 440. My new project is an old Sears Roebuck saw I got from my wife's grandfather. It turns over, has compression, so it has a chance. I want to restore it to running condition. I haven't tried to start it. I don't know much about it. It has a gear reduction drive on it and about a 20 inch bar. I should probably start a new thread, but where do I start when I want to restore an old saw? How do I determine what it is, how old it is, how to get parts, etc? It was well cared for and chainsaw people I've shown it do agree that it is in very decent shape.