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Firewood on a Hakki Pilkie 1x37

Started by GRANITEstateMP, April 09, 2017, 10:07:07 PM

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jimbarry

Yes it is. New bar, new chain, new belts, new bearings. The only thing not replaced is the hydraulic piston that drives the downward pressure.

Same as last time.
20220821 Hakki Pilke Easy37 cutting bar problem - YouTube

doc henderson

well, someone should be able to figure this out.  not me...   :)   but it looks like you have plenty of hydraulic pressure and flow to other functions like the chain motor and the ram.  maybe worn linkages getting in a jam or needed adjustment.  is there anything the bar assembly can be hitting on or in need of lubrication.  You kept letting off and hitting it again and it seemed to jump a bit and then stop moving down.  if you just held it in place, does it do little jerks down to complete the cut?  any associated noise when it does that?  can you put a gage in line with that cylinder?  cylinder or valve bypassing?
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

barbender

I have to wonder if something in the saw pivot is worn and allowing things to shift a touch. 

 I know exactly how aggravating this stuff can be. While my firewood processor is running great, my sawmill engine is still giving me fits. I have what I believe to be a fuel issue. Either sucking air somewhere or some sort of restriction. I have changed about everything. New tank, eliminated the quick couplers WM puts on the tank as that can be an air admittance spot. New water separator base and filter. New fuel lines. I even tried doubling up with an electric fuel pump pushing fuel to the mechanical lift pump (also new🤦‍♂️). I have ran diesel equipment my entire adult life and have never had something baffle me like this. All of that said, I feel your pain!
Too many irons in the fire

jimbarry

Quote from: doc henderson on November 06, 2022, 09:14:49 PM
well, someone should be able to figure this out.  not me...   :)   but it looks like you have plenty of hydraulic pressure and flow to other functions like the chain motor and the ram.  maybe worn linkages getting in a jam or needed adjustment.  is there anything the bar assembly can be hitting on or in need of lubrication.  
No.
You kept letting off and hitting it again and it seemed to jump a bit and then stop moving down.  if you just held it in place, does it do little jerks down to complete the cut?
I've noticed that too. But it doesn't do it all the time. And when it jump to continue the downward motion, its for a mere fraction of an inch then stops again.
any associated noise when it does that?
No.
can you put a gage in line with that cylinder?  cylinder or valve bypassing?
Maybe. I'm not that smart with such diagnosing and I don't have gauges to do that.
Quote from: barbender on November 06, 2022, 10:56:52 PM
I have to wonder if something in the saw pivot is worn and allowing things to shift a touch.
That's why I sent the saw pivot back to the dealer about at the time of that video to have them take it all apart and replace the shaft, sprocket and bearings.

I know exactly how aggravating this stuff can be. While my firewood processor is running great, my sawmill engine is still giving me fits. I have what I believe to be a fuel issue.
Yes, water in the gas is the issue we have. We keep a tarp strapped over the gas tank, made the difference. But if heavy rain is forecast we cover the air filter on the engine too. Water tends to make its way into the filter and down into the carb.

Either sucking air somewhere or some sort of restriction. I have changed about everything. New tank, eliminated the quick couplers WM puts on the tank as that can be an air admittance spot. New water separator base and filter. New fuel lines. I even tried doubling up with an electric fuel pump pushing fuel to the mechanical lift pump (also new🤦‍♂️). I have ran diesel equipment my entire adult life and have never had something baffle me like this. All of that said, I feel your pain!





doc henderson

well, the discussion may prompt someone who knows.  Does HP have a service department that could watch this video?  does it do it in the first of the cut, or only in the second half of the cut?
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Big_eddy

I'm thinking the key is the feed belt movement. It seems there is some slop or wear in either the valve handle, body or linkages and some times when you cut, the belt creeps too, putting side pressure on the bar. The side pressure is small, not enough to bend the bar, but enough to jam it in the cut. Lift off the handle and it eases, press down again and it returns. Hence why the small incremental progress.

Other times, you are positioned a little different, and when you pull the cut lever, there is no belt creep, and it behaves normally.

It may be as simple as loosening a few screws and centering the valve handle to the slot..


Hilltop366

That and/or a hydraulic issue with what ever limits the down pressure on the bar.

Perhaps remove the chain so you can manipulate the bar to see if it binds with a bit of side pressure and how much resistance it takes to stop it. Of coarse use a stick for this not your hand.

Corley5

All your hardware is new.  I'd say something in the hydraulic controls isn't right.  Debris in the relief valve?  Maybe?  Oil by passing somewhere in the control valve itself.  Is it worse when the machine is cold or hot or doesn't that make a difference?  Maybe the saw cylinder is bypassing oil internally?  
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

jimbarry

Quote from: doc henderson on November 07, 2022, 07:55:26 AM
well, the discussion may prompt someone who knows.  Does HP have a service department that could watch this video?  does it do it in the first of the cut, or only in the second half of the cut?
HP will only redirect to local dealer. At the time of the last video I sent it to the local dealer but they did not reply. I had to call them and them said to replace bar, chain and bearings, which I did. The stalling can occur at any cut; could be first, second or last. Generally it starts to stall between half way or 2/3rd way though.

jimbarry

Quote from: Big_eddy on November 07, 2022, 07:56:56 AM
I'm thinking the key is the feed belt movement. It seems there is some slop or wear in either the valve handle, body or linkages and some times when you cut, the belt creeps too, putting side pressure on the bar. The side pressure is small, not enough to bend the bar, but enough to jam it in the cut. Lift off the handle and it eases, press down again and it returns. Hence why the small incremental progress.

Other times, you are positioned a little different, and when you pull the cut lever, there is no belt creep, and it behaves normally.

It may be as simple as loosening a few screws and centering the valve handle to the slot..
I have detected forward belt creep and can easily reproduce it. When we noticed that occuring we stopped the habit of pulling down and to the right with the joystick. We've opted for down and to the left as I have not noticed any reverse creep in that position. I've even tried to just pull straight down, stalling still occurs randomly. 
I will take a look to see if some repositioning is possible. Thanks for the idea. 
I will say this though regarding the least bit of side pressure can affect the downward cutting. There have been plenty of times, like when making the last cut of a log, that the cut will move quite a bit due to any sort of reason and the bar will power through without stalling. Not even notice or care the log has moved.

jimbarry

Quote from: Hilltop366 on November 07, 2022, 08:20:53 AM
That and/or a hydraulic issue with what ever limits the down pressure on the bar.

Perhaps remove the chain so you can manipulate the bar to see if it binds with a bit of side pressure and how much resistance it takes to stop it. Of coarse use a stick for this not your hand.
Good idea.

jimbarry

Quote from: Corley5 on November 07, 2022, 09:13:29 AM
All your hardware is new.  I'd say something in the hydraulic controls isn't right.  Debris in the relief valve?  Maybe?  Oil by passing somewhere in the control valve itself.  Is it worse when the machine is cold or hot or doesn't that make a difference?  Maybe the saw cylinder is bypassing oil internally?  
Doesn't matter whether it's cold or warm. 
I will say this. It doesn't occur every day, maybe 2 out of 3 days.  And for a while it used to be on the first cut, then it would be ok for the rest of that log (4 more cuts). That's why I was thinking something must be cycling through and causing the stall. But wouldn't debris in the fluid be filtered out?

barbender

No, not if it is in a cylinder. I've seen debris wreak havoc on log processor heads when it gets in the valving.
Too many irons in the fire

GRANITEstateMP

Jim, I had a similar problem with my rig, but mine is a manual down pressure. I found that a cap on one of my hydraulic valves had loosened up and some saw dust had gunked it up. some breakleen, blow gun, and a bit if penetrating oil, and a T4 socket got me back in business
Hakki Pilke 1x37
Kubota M6040
Load Trail 12ft Dump Trailer
2015 GMC 3500HD SRW
2016 Polaris 450HO
2016 Polaris 570
SureTrac 12ft Dump Trailer

jimbarry

Quote from: GRANITEstateMP on November 07, 2022, 06:54:38 PM
Jim, I had a similar problem with my rig, but mine is a manual down pressure. I found that a cap on one of my hydraulic valves had loosened up and some saw dust had gunked it up. some breakleen, blow gun, and a bit if penetrating oil, and a T4 socket got me back in business
Which valve? 

GRANITEstateMP

Ive had it happen to two valves. the one that advances and backs out the log, and the one that controls the splitter going in and out. Checking those little T4 alan heads is now part of my spring/fall maintenance
Hakki Pilke 1x37
Kubota M6040
Load Trail 12ft Dump Trailer
2015 GMC 3500HD SRW
2016 Polaris 450HO
2016 Polaris 570
SureTrac 12ft Dump Trailer

jimbarry

I called the dealer this morning. He's dead set on it being a bar/chain issue. Told me to flip the bar and use the same chain. If the issue sorts itself out, the bar was worn on the problem side. If the issue persists, it's the chain. He said that when sharpening, even 1/2 a degree difference from the left and right side is enough to cause an issue. Well, we will see.

I spoke with a Tajfun dealer this morning on a separate thing and we got to talking about the issue I am having with the Pilke. He said a similar problem occurs with the RCA units by Tajfun. Might get 10 cords cut and the bar will start to stall (about the same time we have the stall issue using Oregon bars). They tell the customers to switch to Cannon bars, which they did, and now can breeze through 30 cord before noticing any bar wear.


Big_eddy

That makes sense to me. If over time the bar groove has worn into a V shape rather than a U shape, the chain can tilt within the groove and that will halt downward progress of the chain. Dressing the rails of the bar can help, but closing the bar groove is the real fix. This is the same condition that causes a chainsaw to make banana cuts, but in the case of the processor, both the bar and log are fixed, so no way for the cut to wander. Uneven filing or angles can exacerbate the problem.

Lots of posts and you-tubes on closing up a bar groove. I use the hammer method myself. A bar closer is more precise but I haven't felt the need to buy one - yet.


jimbarry

Quote from: Big_eddy on November 08, 2022, 10:55:53 AM
That makes sense to me. If over time the bar groove has worn into a V shape rather than a U shape, the chain can tilt within the groove and that will halt downward progress of the chain. Dressing the rails of the bar can help, but closing the bar groove is the real fix. This is the same condition that causes a chainsaw to make banana cuts, but in the case of the processor, both the bar and log are fixed, so no way for the cut to wander. Uneven filing or angles can exacerbate the problem.

Lots of posts and you-tubes on closing up a bar groove. I use the hammer method myself. A bar closer is more precise but I haven't felt the need to buy one - yet.
Are you measuring the overall thickness of the bar or the inside gap when truing up a bar, or both?

doc henderson

I hope it is that simple but strange to go several days with no problems and also usually get through the first half of the log.  maybe it is a combo of the conveyor creep and the B&C
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Big_eddy


I "measure" the inside gap by sliding a short section of chain back and forth. I keep tapping as long as it still seems sloppy. If any section starts to get tight, then I wedge it back open a tad with the scrench. It's not overly scientific, but seems to work for me. My experience is that more smaller taps works better than fewer harder whacks. 

Corley5

Put a new bar and chain on and see if it makes a difference.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

GRANITEstateMP

I've had good luck with the Husqvarna bars, on average We get 80ish cord out of one before replacement.  I have all my chains sharpened at a local saw shop that uses a fancy auto sharpener, it helps keep all the teeth same length. We average around 7- 8 cords between sharpenings. They charge $8 a loop to sharpen, and I pass that along to the customer. My machine and my two small saws all run the same chain, so I usually have 10 or 12 loops on saws and machine, ready as spares, and at the shop
Hakki Pilke 1x37
Kubota M6040
Load Trail 12ft Dump Trailer
2015 GMC 3500HD SRW
2016 Polaris 450HO
2016 Polaris 570
SureTrac 12ft Dump Trailer

barbender

I would try a new bar and chain too. It's the cheapest and most painless part to r and r. 

When I bought my Dyna and the original owner had replaced the .80 gauge harvester chain with a .063 gauge chainsaw chain. I picked it up from an auction yard sight unseen so I've never talked to the owner, and had no way of knowing or reason to think it had an incorrect chain on it. The son of a gun cut exactly like you are describing. Chain is sharp, it is ripping right through the wood and it would just stop. No load on the engine or anything. It was driving me NUTS!! Finally, in desperation I ordered a new bar and chain (even though I assumed there was nothing wrong with the original, the machine only had 35 hours on it) It wasn't until I pulled the OE bar and chain off I realized that the chain was too narrow. Problem solved🤷‍♂️ 

 Anyways I may sound like a broken record, but it doesn't take much off balance wear or a widened bar groove for funny stuff to start happening.
Too many irons in the fire

GRANITEstateMP

Quick update. 

All regular customers are stocked up. We are just working up oversized wood now, and getting our ducks together to build a woodshed or two...on a budget. 

Last weekend was our towns annual Holiday Parade. When we started participating in it 25ish years ago, it was the Christmas Parade. We have taken about 6 years off, work obligations, kids, change of parade time vs cows to milk, just wasn't in the cards.  This year the kids are old enough, and the farm had someone to help with milking, so we did the parade. Despite mother nature dropping a bit of precipitation, all went well. I didn't get many pics... sorry :(

This is my new ride for this winter


 


 

and, one of the 3 or so pieces the farm put into the parade



I really should have got more pics, but the parade started at our Highway Barn and I was kinda busy helping here and there...and visiting
Hakki Pilke 1x37
Kubota M6040
Load Trail 12ft Dump Trailer
2015 GMC 3500HD SRW
2016 Polaris 450HO
2016 Polaris 570
SureTrac 12ft Dump Trailer

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