They want to be SOBs with sawmill lumber fine. How do I become compliant. I don't want to do the 17 week course for the full time person but a standard grader should be doable. How do I proceed?
Join SSMU or whatever Arky calls it. 8) 8) Office Depot and a rubber stamp. 8) 8)
about your graqding troubles, In NY we got a law passed that says you can use ungraded lumber but you have to provide a letter saying that the lumber would pass if graded. Basically it is a paper trail for the code enforcement officer if something were to go wrong. Farm Bureau and a bunch of forest related org. did it. And then we had to do it all over after NY adopted the int. building code, it was easier the second time. Other states should think about going this route. It satifies the code enforcements quest for more paper but it is workably on the other end. Farm Bureau got invovled because a lot of the wood was coming from and being used by farmers. Also we had a lot more clout in the Capitol.
Stonebroke
In most places you would need to be stationary, trained, pay a several hundred dollar per month fee, and be pop inspected on a regular basis. There are some states that have a one day training course and let small producers gradestamp residential lumber. I don't think TN is one.
Adam Taylor at UT has a page up on gradestamping in TN, its been up awhile, you might want to contact him. Gradestamping (http://web.utk.edu/~mtaylo29/pages/graded%20lumber%20and%20building%20codel.html)
Click on his "wood related web links" tab on the left of that page and notice which forum he lists at the top ;)
I went through the the class to grade "hardwood" lumber. Nothing said about softwood or structural lumber. Guess I can not grade building materials, pretty sure my 2 x will beat what you find on the market. I feel your pain. :(
I did go through the visual stress grading class, my mill is stationary and they'd be happy to let me stamp if I pay that fee every month.
Unless it is just a personal goal, trying to cut your own framing lumber is probably not worth all the effort. I'm going to buy mine from a large mill about 20 miles down the road. All they cut is good ol' local SYP, and I can buy it for about the same price I get for my rough sawn stuff. It will all be KD and grade stamped.
If you're determined to use your own SYP, the only practical way to get it inspected is to use one of the SPIB inspectors. These are the guys that travel around and look over the shoulders of the mill inspectors. They have their own stamps that they carry around with them. The stamps that are issued to the mills are not allowed to leave the mill premises. A call to the Southern Pine Inspection Bureau will set you up with one of them, for a minor fee of course. ::)
I usta have a grad rule book,got it from the guy that checked on the graders at gp. Can't find the dang thing nowhere. Happens all the ,stuff just evaperates off my dest.
Don't worry it gets worse, it just evaporates outta my head :D
It seems to me like an aspiring attorney could launch a class action suit against the SPIB and the department of commerce for monopoly practices at the federal level. I know I would be willing to join in on this suit and I am sure that most independent sawyers would be as well.
As far as grading for hardwoods, this is a whole different story. I tried to sell my oak woods to cabinet shops locally only to find out that they wouldnt buy it no matter what the grade or level of care taken to kiln dry it. They believe that the lumber they get from their "BORG" suppliers is superior to anything an independent could supply at any price. Selling to furniture builders and flooring dealers is your best bet on hardwoods because they are not so picky.
QuoteI know I would be willing to join in on this suit and I am sure that most independent sawyers would be as well.
That's the last thing I would ever want to have anything to do with. Grading and rules is there for a purpose. Selling structural lumber for profit and being ultimately responsible for the safety of those using it is not something I would want to carry around with me.
I just want to do what I want to do, and the use my own lumber for my own projects without interference.
I would rather not grade, but if counties lock down you where you can't sell because you are not a member of the organization you have a choice. Join or not cut.
To answer whether you would want the responsiblity of selling inferior lumber it is simple. If you are willing to sell inferior lumber witth or without a certification in my case I am responsible. I am not going to sell you a board that isn't what it should be. The stamp is not that it is good enough that is what lowes does. What I SELL YOU IS BETTER. HAS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS WILL BE WHAT THE STAMP STATES.
Jeff makes an excellent point about liability. Even if your lumber is better that anything that is stamped no. 2, you could still be sued. Of course in today's society, you could be sued even without the lumber being stamped :(
ADMIN NOTE FOR POSTERITY: THE POST THAT CRASHED THE FORUM IN 2007 ;)
You mean posting causes hard disc failure? Cheese- guess i should stop using my computer altogether- some post might bounce back and kill it dead! :D :D
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any documented case where someone was sued for faulty lumber?
Quote from: getoverit on October 18, 2007, 11:01:51 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any documented case where someone was sued for faulty lumber?
Want to qualify that a bit....as to what 'faulty lumber' means? ::) ???
I was just addressing Jeff's concerns of the liability of selling wood and then being sued because the wood was faulty.
I agree that you can be sued today just for sitting at the house and doing nothing... no guarantees that somebody wont come along and sue you for something. I dont know that this is a reason for not wanting to sell and market your wood.
I always took pride in the wood I sold, especially the dimensional pine lumber. I dont think you could find any beter wood anywhere at any grade, but I sold it below the retail price of #2 pine. I never tried it, but I have been told by many that building inspectors wont allow it to be used to build a house no matter how good it is, simply because it doesnt have the stamp of the SPIB. To me, that is monopoly and unfair trade practices, especially when I cant use it to build something for myself.
I know there is an old thread or 2 on here about this, but it is still a thorn in my saddle..
A quick google;
This is an osha citation where a workman died. I've heard of suits when ladders have failed, that is grading done by the same agencies for ladder and scaffold stock.
Quotefailed to visually inspect lumber material used in the elevated platform for defects before and during use ($7,000);
failed to provide proper training to employees in the appropriate selection of lumber and the hazards of using defective lumber in building elevated platforms ($7,000);
failed to provide proper rigging to employees working in excess of 7.5 feet above the ground ($3,750);
failed to ensure that modifications to the elevated wood platforms were of adequate design in accordance with good engineering practice ($3,750);
failed to maintain securely fastened cross supports on wooden scaffolding at each point of support ($3,750).
Residential ungraded lumber;
QuoteII. Is the existence of substandard lumber in the floor joists of
a newly constructed house enough of a defect in and of itself to
state a claim under an express warranty, where the warranty is for
all construction?
III. Is the existence of ungraded lumber in the floor joists of a
house a patent or latent defect, and as such, does the existence of
an inspection clause in [an] Agreement for Warranty Deed
contract require the purchaser of a new house to have a detailed
inspection, or is it reasonable for the purchaser to rely on the
builder for acceptable construction?
Last week the building supply sent some 2x10's I was going to use for beams to support dormer roofs. The only stamp was "HT" heat treated. It was #4 and unacceptable. I would say criminal in my opinion >:(. That's dollars over life safety.
In our last round of trying to exclude Canadian imported lumber we shut out some of the best wood out there. The same agencies just switched gears and started slipping in european wood. It has different, lower, strength values and yet is sent to jobs as if it were SPF. I spotted some in an engineer's house yesterday. Haven't talked to him, but the crew are friends, and they were unaware.
In trying to see some perspective;
How many small sawyers can actually quote you chapter and verse what a #2 is? They are unqualified.
Whenever someone has posted searching for a beam size and it comes back heavier than they anticipated, their wood all of a sudden becomes Select Structural ::)
The system stinks, its also the best I've seen.
I've groped for perspective on this issue