Have any of you guys tried it? I bought a couple quarts today for my 455 rancher, kind of expensive, but, if it doesn't eat the fuel lines and ruin the carb, I'll be happy.
Kevin
Not that it matters,I run the highest grade I can buy at a local gas station,mix with the little small jugs of husky oil. I just had some rubber lines go in my saw. First time I have ever had trouble.And I use my saw alot too.Had the saw for 7-8 years.I have a tiller,wood spilter,2 old junk lawnmowers,one cheap decent lawnmower,trimmer,sawmill motor. Maybe a few more too. Maybe I have fools luck. But everything seems to run good. So far.
I have it and use it. For an occasional user like myself, I can justify the expense. If I ran saws daily like some of the other members here, it wouldn't be very economical. I think running high octane gas with a good stabilizer made for ethanol gasoline would be just fine. Even better if you can find a gas station that still sells ethanol free gas.
My feeling as well Rob. I don't use my saw regularly so the expense is worth it.
Kevin
If you use the saw regularly probably not a big deal but putting that stuff in for the last tank of the season and then topping up with it is probably a good idea.
It is not economical for me during the summer. I purchased a bunch of cans last year when lowes was having a really good sale. The empty cans are keepers, as they are very good for keeping fuel fresh and transporting for small jobs. My big saw holds an entire can in the tank and eats it very quickly, so $5-6 is too much
I use non ethanol premium gas.
Some guy on Faceplace was saying that the "canned fuel" was causing a lot of saws to blow up. He heard it from his STIHL dealer, so of course it had to be true ya know!
Idiot!
Very expensive stuff and I would go through several hundred dollars a day. Not for me. If you run one tank a month maybe.
Many fire departments use it in their rescue saws but our taxes pay for those cans not the users.
High quality premium fuel with no ethanol is the same stuff with a good stabilizer and mix oil. Use the full synthetic mix and non ethanol fuel and you will be happy. Google ethanol free gas (pure-gas.org is one result) and you can find the stuff. Get a ethanol gas tester (Stihl makes a glass one) and verify what you are putting in your equipment.
I live in an area where ethanol free gas just isn't commonly available, probably like many here. I "wash" E10 premium to get E0 regular for my stuff that runs on regular.. mostly Briggs and Tecumseh engines. That does very well.
For the saws and other things that require higher octane... using Tru Fuel etc works out to maybe $24 per gallon. Better but still a bit pricey is another option... buy from racing fuel suppliers, and get it in 5-gallon cans. If there's a VP racing fuel dealer in your area he can get the "SEF" (small engine fuel @ 94 octane). In my area there's a guy who sells Dragon racing fuel products and I was able to get a 5 gallon can of "Tarragon 95" for about $65.00. Just mix to suit and you're ready to go. Since I use maybe a bit less than 5 gal a year, this works for me. And I store / carry the mixed fuel in properly labeled used Tru Fuel cans, which are real handy.
Agreed that this still isn't economical for large volume or commercial users with a fleet of machinery but it is an alternative....
Quote from: pine on December 24, 2013, 10:35:12 AM
High quality premium fuel with no ethanol is the same stuff with a good stabilizer and mix oil.
No, it is not the same stuff.
Oh man, I can't believe I'm gonna say this being all newbie and such....but....modern saws are designed with E10 in mind, and will be just fine with fresh pump gas (more heresy, they mostly run better around 89 octane) and an appropriate ratio of good oil.
Now if u'r gonna let that mix sit in a plastic can for six months, the ethanol will cause a problem
I burn 1000 gallons of 2 cycle fuel a year in stratocharged engines and tradtional 2 cycles without the cat and with the cat. Stratocharged motors want the highest octane available, as in my experience, they don't like cheap 87 octane. I always buy 91 or 93 now. I use opti2 a little above the recommended mix ratio and everything runs great. I burn it in Redmax backpacks/trimmers/saws, Shindaiwa trimmers/handhelds/saws/hedge trimmers, Suzuki 2 strokes on Toro lawnmowers. No problems, but my gas only sits in the can for 24 hours at the very most before it is burned.
I work beside the airport and do not saw for a living, so I run AVGAS 100 LL (low lead) mixed with Stihl synthetic. I run it in all my 2 stroke equipment. Have not had any issues, the saws run ALOT cleaner and cooler. I will not run anything else. Plus it smells good! My penny's worth.
Trever
I've used the Tru-Fuel, which is 92 octane, and the VP Racing SEF-94 which is 94 octane. Can't really tell the difference. I get the Tru-Fuel from Home Depot and the VP Racing stuff from a saw dealer near me. Personally I'd rather use the VP Racing mix as it's higher octane, I can buy it for $20 a gallon which is less than HD's price, and I support a local saw shop. I cut 10-12 cords a year and go through 3-4 gallons of the mix in two saws, plus a mini-tiller, weedwacker and leaf blower. For less than $100 bucks, I don't have to worry about all my fuel lines breaking, carbs gumming up or anything else that alcohol-cut gasoline does to a small engine. Since I've been using the canned mix, I have had zero problems with any of my small engines. Before that, I was on my third carb in five years with the mini tiller and routinely had to bring all my equipment to the dealer for cleaning and fuel line replacement. I cannot get ethanol free gas near me (or at least, not conveniently) but I think I would still use the pre-mix anyway.
For you guys who use several gallons of mix a day for business, you'd be better off buying the best 94+ octane gas you can find and mixing your own. It's only going to affect the engines if you let it sit for a while. Almost like to have the ethanol-free pre-mix to "rinse out" your engines - even if they sit for a weekend.
I look at the cost of the pre-mix as one carburetor per year - or having to pay $75 for my firewood. Even buying five gallons of 94 octane gas plus enough 2-cycle oil and stabilizer is still going to set me back $35 around here, so in effect I'm buying insurance and peace of mind for $40 a year. Worth it.
I use 89 oct. non -ethanol at 40:1 and put ethanol shield for good measure
Here's a little something I learned, that hopefully you wont have to: Tru dies their fuel pink. Every other premix dies theirs blue or grey. The straight oil for mix is died blue or grey.
If you have an issue with your saw and take it to a dealer/shop and they see just pink fuel in the tank, they will claim there is no oil in it cause its not bluish/greyish. Also, if you mix tru with a little bit of any other mixed fuel, it tend to turn clear, leading, again, to a "you didn't put any oil in this" argument.
I have mixed tru and another infamous brand in a glass container and gotten clear fuel every time. Does that mean there's no oil in it? No. Color has nothing to do with the amount of oil in the fuel. A simple hygrometer will show its not straight fuel.
Learn from my pain.
The oil used in True fuel has red dye in it, the oil is made by Motul. VP also uses Motul 2T oil. Bad dealers often make these types of claims, this is nothing new. It's often the dealer or manufacture trying to get out of warranty work. I'd be looking for a new dealer if they tried to pulled one over on me. Nevertheless a lot of people do in fact straight gas their saws, so they're always checking.
Andre.
My FIL had a leaf blower he bought cheap at a local place, think it was a Homelite. It had a fuel leak so and wouldn't run so he brought it back. He said the guy fired it up and it ran at the store, then nothing when he got home. The fuel was pink and smelled like acetone. Not a clue if it was Tru Fuel but after purging the fuel system with my mix it fired right up and no problems since.
VP SEF @ 40:1 is dyed RED
VP SEF @ 50:1 is dyed BLUE
Now, in regards to the leaf blower....
Canned fuel has a lower specific gravity than pump fuel. If the carburetor was once adjusted to run on pump gas, it would probably have to be tweaked a little to run on canned fuel (TruFuel....whatever).
For those not familiar with the smell of raw canned fuel, yes.....it smell like TESTORS model airplane glue.
yes.....it smell like TESTORS model airplane glue.----
I didn't even know they still made that stuff .Now if it does contain acetone like the Testors used to I wouldn't think that would be good to run through an engine .
What I believe to be an important difference between synthetic premix fuel and regular gas with stabilizer added is that the premix (Aspen, Motomix, etc.) is stable for 5 years! As far as I understood stabilizer only says for 1/2-1 year. So that is quite a difference.
Further here in Europe many communities are already demanding premix for public work because of the reduced health risk, so that just gets added to the bill.
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Quote from: Al_Smith on January 07, 2014, 08:32:34 AM
yes.....it smell like TESTORS model airplane glue.----
I didn't even know they still made that stuff .Now if it does contain acetone like the Testors used to I wouldn't think that would be good to run through an engine .
Regardless if it has acetone or not, VP has been blending fuels since 1974 (longer than I've been around).
I know of at least (2) VERY reputable dealers and (1) VERY reputable saw builder (who happens to hang around here) who run VP/TruFuel/Husqvarna Fuel in their saws with VERY good long term results.
I've been running VP SEF @ 40:1 since the end of last summer.
Saws that would normally take 6-7 pulls cold are now running in 3-4 pulls.
Throttle response has increased.
Now due to the amount of run time my saws actually see, I can justify the cost.
Quote from: JohnG28 on January 07, 2014, 07:04:48 AMThe fuel was pink and smelled like acetone.
That's how real fuel smells, and once did at the pump. The only difference I've seen when running canned fuel, is a little lower idle speed, and a little rich on the high end, but nothing drastic and nothing that would cause an engine to not start or run. Keep in mind this fuel was designed to run in OPE. I've ran quite a bit of TF 50:1 and one quart of Stihl's canned mix, both are excellent products, but expensive.
I wouldn't have known at all, never smelled fuel like that before. Never ran any of the premix cans before. Thanks for the info.
Quote from: Andyshine77 on January 07, 2014, 04:40:35 PM
...The only difference I've seen when running canned fuel, is a little lower idle speed, and a little rich on the high end, but nothing drastic and nothing that would cause an engine to not start or run...
Your statement makes me think that the canned fuel is a non-oxygenated gas.
Most auto fuels (at least in my area) are oxygenated, which makes them burn cleaner. Oxygenated fuels are mandated in some areas air quality reasons (the ethanol in E10 gas is an oxygenate; there are others in use as well). An oxygenated fuel will tend to run a bit leaner than a non-oxygenated fuel (basically, because there is already some oxygen in the fuel). Not a big deal -- you can just adjust the mixture a bit to compensate.
If you switch back and forth between fuels and don't always remember (or know how) to adjust the mixture, leave the saw set for the oxygenated fuel. It will run a tad rich when you go to the canned stuff, but running a bit rich doesn't kill saws.
I burn the highest octane I can get from the pump, and have no stations in town that even sell non-ethanol fuel. Maybe I'm lucky, but if it were not for all the fuss on the internet, I'd never know the difference. I have yet to have any fuel related issues, and I run five saws from a 170 to an 084. My newest saw is 5 yrs. old. I have an old 029 truck saw that's about due for a rebuild or trash can, but dang that thing must be going on 20yrs old. Still starts easy & cuts.
When I was a kid, long before the ethanol scare, I used to run dirt bikes. It was not uncommon for me to replace fuel lines or diaphragms that rotted. These issues existed even when fuel was "good". Rings & pistons still burned up, bearings still blew out, and fuel systems still failed. Obviously, with all the fuss about ethanol, there must be a thread of truth to the rumor that it's bad for fuel systems & engines. But I question the extent of it. I don't have any different problems with my saws as I did with my dirt bikes. Actually I have less, but attribute it more to maturity. I'm not running my saws like I want them to explode. I simply have not personally seen any issue that I can pinpoint blame on ethanol gas.
Quote from: qbilder on January 13, 2014, 11:03:24 AM
I burn the highest octane I can get from the pump, and have no stations in town that even sell non-ethanol fuel. Maybe I'm lucky, but if it were not for all the fuss on the internet, I'd never know the difference. I have yet to have any fuel related issues, and I run five saws from a 170 to an 084. My newest saw is 5 yrs. old. I have an old 029 truck saw that's about due for a rebuild or trash can, but dang that thing must be going on 20yrs old. Still starts easy & cuts.
When I was a kid, long before the ethanol scare, I used to run dirt bikes. It was not uncommon for me to replace fuel lines or diaphragms that rotted. These issues existed even when fuel was "good". Rings & pistons still burned up, bearings still blew out, and fuel systems still failed. Obviously, with all the fuss about ethanol, there must be a thread of truth to the rumor that it's bad for fuel systems & engines. But I question the extent of it. I don't have any different problems with my saws as I did with my dirt bikes. Actually I have less, but attribute it more to maturity. I'm not running my saws like I want them to explode. I simply have not personally seen any issue that I can pinpoint blame on ethanol gas.
Excellent post!
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Quote from: qbilder on January 13, 2014, 11:03:24 AM
I simply have not personally seen any issue that I can pinpoint blame on ethanol gas.
You haven't been inside many carburetors lately then have you?
Quote from: qbilder on January 13, 2014, 11:03:24 AM
I burn the highest octane I can get from the pump, and have no stations in town that even sell non-ethanol fuel. Maybe I'm lucky, but if it were not for all the fuss on the internet, I'd never know the difference. I have yet to have any fuel related issues, and I run five saws from a 170 to an 084. My newest saw is 5 yrs. old. I have an old 029 truck saw that's about due for a rebuild or trash can, but dang that thing must be going on 20yrs old. Still starts easy & cuts.
When I was a kid, long before the ethanol scare, I used to run dirt bikes. It was not uncommon for me to replace fuel lines or diaphragms that rotted. These issues existed even when fuel was "good". Rings & pistons still burned up, bearings still blew out, and fuel systems still failed. Obviously, with all the fuss about ethanol, there must be a thread of truth to the rumor that it's bad for fuel systems & engines. But I question the extent of it. I don't have any different problems with my saws as I did with my dirt bikes. Actually I have less, but attribute it more to maturity. I'm not running my saws like I want them to explode. I simply have not personally seen any issue that I can pinpoint blame on ethanol gas.
A good post, and thanks for sharing your experience. One of the keys to using E10 gas is to turn it over quickly. If you are suing your saws regularly, and keep the gas in them (and in your cans) fresh, you won't have as much of an issue. Old fuel is a problem with almost any fuel, but ethanol blends tend to have a shorter shelf life than other blends of gas. (Aviation gas and the canned fuel are much better on this front)
I've heard that other oxygenates that were/are added to gas also caused problems with old rubber lines (more so than the the old "pure" gas before oxygenates were added in many parts of the country). These have been around since well before E10 became prevalent. However, these apparently are not quite the problem that ethanol is.
Also, some of the problems it causes can be tough to trace back to ethanol. If you got an air leak and your saw lean-seized, was that leak because ethanol caused something to deteriorate, or caused by old age, or was it just that someone didn't pay enough attention when their saw started "talking" to them, and kept right on running it anyway?
I've heard from local saw repair guys that they've seen a lot more internal corrosion, bad fuel lines and diaphragms, scored cylinders, & etc. since E10 gas became prevalent in our area. I take them at their word, however, I will grant that some of this may be that there are a bunch of folks getting in to doing their own firewood than there used to be. More problems could be at least in part due to more users (and more users who don't know much about taking care of their saws).
Quote from: AdkStihl on January 13, 2014, 12:00:58 PM
Quote from: qbilder on January 13, 2014, 11:03:24 AM
I simply have not personally seen any issue that I can pinpoint blame on ethanol gas.
You haven't been inside many carburetors lately then have you?
Haven't needed to, knock on wood :-\
qbilder,I posted the same thing about the highest grade that I can buy at my local station. Like I said I may have fools luck. I wonder if the hoses are made cheaper now too? But I go through my fuel too. I mix 4 gallons of chainssaw fuel and in no more than 3 weeks it's gone. Just about the same way with gas for the mower and wood splitter too.
"I simply have not personally seen any issue that I can pinpoint blame on ethanol gas."
I have run into problems caused with ethanol fuel that I never ran into in over FIFTY years!
Ethanol absorbers moisture and deteriorates older fuel lines. One carb problem it causes is that the ethanol/water chemical produces a FINE brown powder that will jam up the tiny holes that are covered with a welch plug. Plug must be removed to clean out contaminant!
I have never purchased Tru-Fuel and don't plan to--far too expensive for me!
I know there is a difference but I don't buy pre-mixed products like--Antifreeze, Herbicides, Pesticides or Fuels.
I purchase Non-Ethanol Premium gasoline, treat it with Sta-Bil as soon as I get home, and my chainsaws, trimmers, blowers get a 40 to 1 semi-synthetic Husqvarna oil. The rest, I use in Lawnmowers and other small engines.
Quote from: Jiles on January 13, 2014, 05:13:41 PM
"I simply have not personally seen any issue that I can pinpoint blame on ethanol gas."
I have run into problems caused with ethanol fuel that I never ran into in over FIFTY years!
Ethanol absorbers moisture and deteriorates older fuel lines. One carb problem it causes is that the ethanol/water chemical produces a FINE brown powder that will jam up the tiny holes that are covered with a welch plug. Plug must be removed to clean out contaminant!
I have never purchased Tru-Fuel and don't plan to--far too expensive for me!
I know there is a difference but I don't buy pre-mixed products like--Antifreeze, Herbicides, Pesticides or Fuels.
I purchase Non-Ethanol Premium gasoline, treat it with Sta-Bil as soon as I get home, and my chainsaws, trimmers, blowers get a 40 to 1 semi-synthetic Husqvarna oil. The rest, I use in Lawnmowers and other small engines.
The problem is many people simply cannot buy Ethanol free pump fuel locally. Yes canned fuel is expensive for someone that burns fuel like I do but, I recommend TF or VP's canned fuel to every backyard warrior I know.
Sta-Bil makes an additive that is supposed to eliminate ethanol problems?? I have not tried any but am told it works.
Quote from: Jiles on January 13, 2014, 05:44:32 PM
Sta-Bil makes an additive that is supposed to eliminate ethanol problems?? I have not tried any but am told it works.
Nothing will completely eliminate the issues with ethanol, but additives do help with phase separation. This keeps the moisture from sitting at the bottom of your fuel tanks, but it does little to help fuel lines and other fuel system components. The best thing to do is keep fuel fresh, don't store your equipment with fuel in the tanks or fuel system, aka run then dry.
Another one is named Startron for ethanol stabilization.
All this discussion makes me remember what I heard Rick on "Pawnstars" say.
He made the remark that the reason newer model cars make more horsepower is because the gas we have today is so much better!! LOL.