Got a little Walnut to mill.

[coppolajc10]

Good to know we can brush off genuine advice when "I know all that already." How are you estimating ?  You stated in previous posts it was a 9' log by 45".  My calc has that at 8900 lbs.  Is there a 3000 lb hole in the middle or does your estimate just conveniently add up?  Just sayin'.

[tburch]

Who are you?

[Tom the Sawyer]

No offense taken.  I was the one who wrote "Wet Blanket Alert"... and I knew the definition.   I have always been the one to be the designated driver, to say "you can't go home until the report is done... correctly", or otherwise spoil the fun.  Perhaps its the 'oldest child' syndrome, but it does extend lives.  I am glad you got them home.

I had estimated the second log at 48"x9', you mentioned the smallest diameter was 45".  For black walnut, the Forum tool box puts it at 6600 lbs., with the large crotch, you're probably close to 7000 lbs.  Add in about 2300 lbs. for your trailer w/ metal sides/headache rack, ramps, chains and binders - you were probably over 9000 lbs. :( After loading those two logs, it would be advisable to check the welds on the trailer, especially the spring shackles, the tongue structure and the coupler.

Have a safe and prosperous New Year, everyone. ;)

[kensfarm]

So you're headed home.. karma rears it's ugly head..  and some fool pulls out in front of you.. you hit the brakes and the trailer starts pushing your vehicle sideways.  The next thing you realize is that the prosecutor is trying to prove that you were negligent.. that you knew or should have known.. blah blah blah.. and the family coming home from church would still be alive. 

Probably a good lesson for all of us to try and be safer.  Thank you Tom.. and for the record.. you're not a wet blanket.  ;D

[square1]

I've debated about laying another wet blanket on, but will anyway. Throw a heavy coat, blanket (wet or not ;)), or a real dampener over that chain before Austin takes a shot to the back of the head if it snaps
- AND -
Stay way away from that log going up the ramps, a couple guys "directing" a 7,000 pound log with their hands aren't going to make a difference if the log decides to not play nice.

Other than that, post up some pics of what it yields, should be some beautiful slabs.

[beenthere]

The OP didn't ask for our critique, and we can keep that in mind.. not make him feel that he shouldn't have posted it and shared it with us.
He did demonstrate a method of getting a huge piece of wood onto a trailer, albeit could stand some modifications.  I'm glad he put the video up for us to see how it went. And that no one was hurt, hopefully including the trailer.

On the other hand, this is a very good example of what can possibly go wrong and can be very helpful in the Forestry Forum archives for others thinking of using this method.

I also look forward to the outcome from sawing. Glad it is not still rotting away on the ground, or being fuel to someone's bonfire.

[terrifictimbersllc]

tburch, looks like we have the same mill.  Why did you decide to move the big logs rather than bring the mill to them?

[tburch]

The tree was 30 minutes, one way, from the house, and my times available for sawing are few and far between.

[tburch]

The OP didn't ask for our critique, and we can keep that in mind.. not make him feel that he shouldn't have posted it and shared it with us.
He did demonstrate a method of getting a huge piece of wood onto a trailer, albeit could stand some modifications.  I'm glad he put the video up for us to see how it went. And that no one was hurt, hopefully including the trailer.

On the other hand, this is a very good example of what can possibly go wrong and can be very helpful in the Forestry Forum archives for others thinking of using this method.

I also look forward to the outcome from sawing. Glad it is not still rotting away on the ground, or being fuel to someone's bonfire.

Thank you!

[Magicman]

In the future, the loading will be easier if you use a longer "V" cable/chain.  The V should be around the log before it gets to the ramps to provide support to both log ends.  The only problem is that you do not have as much fun and get to laugh so much.   ;D

I will be interested in seeing what is inside.   

[kensfarm]

My apologies tburch.. just wanting to keep you and your friends safe. 

[tburch]

Thank you all for your supportive comments.  I thought the chastising was a bit uncalled for, but I'm letting that go.

I've parbuckled my fair share, but it's been a few years since I've done it.  Round logs make it a lot easier.  Rolling a non round log with protrusions, limbs, voids and slippery rotten sapwood complicate matters, as does having 3 people assisting who have never been involved in anything like this trying to make recommendations.  We took it slow and stayed safe.

We had two trailers - mine, in the video, and a borrowed trailer the other guy had acquired.  On the way home, he had a tire blow out due to a bent fender rubbing it, which didn't hit the tire until the weight of all the logs was in the trailer.  I know my trailer, but didn't stop to consider the road worthiness of his. 

[square1]

We took it slow and stayed safe.

Anyone viewing the videos posted in this thread in a search for information / instruction for similar situations please recognize "slow" does not equate to "safe".  A more accurate statement would be "We took it slow and our luck held out." 

It is highly irresponsible to represent the methods, actions, and techniques employed here as "safe".

[beenthere]

Enough of the "preaching", IMO. If the video has some learning built into it, so be it is good for the forum.

Doesn't need any more nit-picking on what they did or did not do... again in my opinion.

Thanks for posting what was done, and glad to see all ended up being "safe".

I wouldn't post some of the things I've done or lived through... just saying.

Saw nothing "highly irresponsible" represented.. IMO  Also, am sure you didn't mean that to be punitive to the OP. Just that it's not the way you would have done it.  ;)

[Kbeitz]

Amen...

[square1]

The warning is there for persons that may be looking for advice when contemplating similar projects. Hopefully those person will take time to read the entire thread and get food for thought.

...and with that said I will truly let the subject drop.

[tburch]

Throw a heavy coat, blanket ... or a real dampener over that chain before Austin takes a shot to the back of the head if it snaps...
Stay way away from that log going up the ramps, a couple guys "directing" a 7,000 pound log with their hands aren't going to make a difference if the log decides to not play nice.

square1, your above comments are sound advice. 

For the dampener on the chain, your advice echoes every chain or chain accessory package product liability safety warning or winch manual I have ever read.  I have been involved with the breaking of a 3/8" chain before, and it wasn't pretty.   In high school, when I was about 15-16 years old, I would dig stumps out for extra money.  I was digging out a pine stump about 36" in diameter, on a mound about 4' high, and I was on my 2nd day of digging.  The homeowner was getting impatient and chastised me for taking so long digging this stump out.  I was <16> and using a spade and axe, and the temp was probably in this high 80's or 90's.  He got his 20' 3/8" chain, wrapped it around the stump and attached the other end to his bumper.  At this point, the stump would rock, but was still root bound.  He gave it a few tugs with his pickup, and rocked it quite a bit, but it too wasn't moving fast enough for him.  He started squalling his tires, and the chain broke near the stump.  It rubber-banded into the rear glass of his pickup, shattering the glass, entering his cab, and wreaking havoc on his cab roof and surrounding areas.  That was a sight.  He then told me he wasn't going to pay me the $175 dollars to dig out the stump and that I would have to replace his back glass.  Lucky for me, his wife was out there watching the entire episode too, and she straightened him out pretty clear and fast.   

For my above experience, and my other lifelong log handling experiences that have never had a failure, I guess my question becomes, at what point ought a dampener be used?  Certainly I've learned that squalling your truck tires while pulling on a chain is a good time to use a dampener.  But does the force required to roll a log up an inclined plane get anywhere near taxing the tensile strength of a chain?  Or, ought a dampener be used in every chain or cable use situation?  I would guess that the lawyers writing the product safety warnings might say so, but if that's the case, how do you even store a chain without wrapping a blanket over it?   I think the answer is, at some point, it's required, and if not used and there's a failure, you are negligent, if and only if someone or something gets hurt.   

For your second point, I cannot justify the action you point out in the video as a good idea.  Too many people were too close during the process of loading the upper section of that crazy shaped log.  No amount of excuse will remove us any further away from the log than we were.  My only rebuttal for the hands-on actions was that it was a learning experience for all of us (me in rolling that size and crazy shape of a log, and for never having seen or fathomed such an activity for the others), and if you hadn't ever felt and assessed the weight or weight potential of a substantial log like that, then that was the time to do it.   Good idea or bad, done consciously or not, the opportunity was taken. 

safe |sāf|
adjective
1 [ predic. ] protected from or not exposed to danger or risk;
2 uninjured; with no harm done:

My comment was #2.  You labelled me irresponsible for #1.  Not parbuckling is #1.   

My intent with posting the videos, as I chose to edit or not edit them, was to show our full process, and that process isn't always as simple as theory or other youtube videos portray.  I provided 3 different people's perspectives and candid comments performing the same dangerous activity.  Yes, moving substantial logs is dangerous.  Logs can twist or slip.  Cables and chains can knot up.  There might be multiple retries.  Logs aren't always round and you might have to make accommodations for limbs and knots or imprecisely positioned ramps.  People might not be listening to proper instruction.  The ground you are working on isn't always flat.  10' sections of angle iron might go flying when not anchored 10 seconds after you tell someone they might go flying.  8X8 sweet gum ramps might break.  If a viewer of this video watches it and leaves with having second thoughts about attempting this them self, then maybe that's OK and it might be something they should not tackle.  If they leave with a reaction of "you can get killed doing that", then they would be correct. 

For the record, one segment I did edit out, was me taking the opportunity to scold the tractor operator (the adult son of my client) for not paying attention to direction.  He was preoccupied with his cell phone. 

I've watched many videos about different ways to load logs, and I don't recall watching any videos that show failed attempts at loading or restarts and the adjustments that were taken as a result to get correction.  The other videos show this as a fairly benign activity that looks pretty easy and is generally successful on the one and only try in about 45 seconds, no matter how redneck the technique was.  I can't imagine that I'm the only one who has had to regroup and make another attempt.  Could I have edited my videos down to 45 seconds to show how easy and fast it is to load massive crazy shaped logs in one try and overlaid the soundtrack with some easy listening music?  Sure, and one could ask, how responsible would that have been? 

I'm not perfect by any means and I admit there are opportunities to teach better safety from my video.  But please refrain from telling me I am brushing off advice or posting my experience was irresponsible.   

If you have constructive advice, like, "it would be safer to anchor your ramps at the top of the trailer", even though I know this and chose to proceed without doing so, I don't have a problem being reminded.  I know the benefits of having a V cable and that it could have been longer.  I also know, through experience, that as you get into knotty and limby logs like that upper section, it takes a lot more management to get the cable and/or chain just right are your log rolls and the log topography changes.  The V cable I used on the upper section, the one I had with me, was made to work by being pulled via a winch at the head of the trailer and a snatch block from the log-opposite side of the trailer with about a 30" or smaller log.  With that application, the V cable had to be created short, as a longer V cable would not successfully pull the logs up high enough to fall into the trailer.  I have another 75' of cable in the barn, waiting for me to make a longer V cable to be used with an external pulling force.  By the time we loaded the straight section of trunk, we had gone to a straight chain pull.  It was faster for our situation.  Could I have taken the time to better prepare for the days activities?  Sure. 

I enjoy this forum and I realize that in any written forum, it can be difficult to communicate ideas and intentions.  And just like on the evening news, the videos don't always show or tell the whole story.  As others have done in the past, I wanted to share activities that we all participate in and have an interest in.   Your constructive comments are appreciated.  Your comments and reminders on law and physics are appreciated too, even though I might already be well aware. 

beenthere, thank you again for suggesting to get thread to get back on track.  I started my reply prior to your post earlier this morning, (and the two other comments) and I actually did edit it down considerably because of it. 

square1, I agree with your last post.   

As a suggestion to the folks here who are the real and proven experts in this area of loading logs, perhaps a video from you, teaching others all aspects of parbuckling and trailering, might be well received?   

[Ljohnsaw]

tburch,

Well put!  I've been following this thread and I was beginning to get upset at the tone directed at you.  Some of the comments were very un-FF like, to say the least.  Maybe the commenters tone did not come across correctly, maybe it did.

I liked your videos for showing the whole truth to parbucking a cantankerous log.  Your video is a great learning tool showing what works and doesn't work.  From the start, however, I could see one big problem - three people seemed to be giving the tractor operator instructions!

Regarding putting a damper on the chain - I've always "heard" that it is not necessary as chain won't spring back like cable will.  I always give anything under tension a wide berth.  Then again, I've seen the stump through the back window video on AFV years ago...

[Lonely Sawer]

IMO, to many bodies to close to the action. And one should always dampen a chain or cable no matter what their pulling. Just sayin'...........

[Kbeitz]

Chains do spring back. I watched my dad put a deep chain mark all the way across his
new truck one day. we was all happy it was the truck and not out heads.
That chain lash/dent reminded us every day how lucky we was.

[beenthere]

Maybe not the chain itself, but what the chain was hooked to that let loose ??  Still the same effect..

[Kbeitz]

If you Stretch them like this they will spring back.



 


What everyone need is ....

Renegade kinetic energy Tow Rope

Find it on e-bay.

[69bronco]

tburch,

Well put!  I've been following this thread and I was beginning to get upset at the tone directed at you.  Some of the comments were very un-FF like, to say the least.  Maybe the commenters tone did not come across correctly, maybe it did.

I liked your videos for showing the whole truth to parbucking a cantankerous log.  Your video is a great learning tool showing what works and doesn't work.  From the start, however, I could see one big problem - three people seemed to be giving the tractor operator instructions!

Regarding putting a damper on the chain - I've always "heard" that it is not necessary as chain won't spring back like cable will.  I always give anything under tension a wide berth.  Then again, I've seen the stump through the back window video on AFV years ago...

X2  You know what they say about opinions.......everybody has one! TBurch, too bad your post turned into critique from OSHA. I enjoyed it and hope you don't let it get to you. I for one can't wait to see that crotch opened up! smiley_clapping

[tburch]

In the "for what it's worth department"...  I did a test this morning. 

I have, in the yard, a water oak butt section.  35" small end, 42" large end, 9' long.  All dimensions are outside of bark, in the longest dimensions.  I cannot lift it with the forks on my skid steer.  Log weight calculator over at woodweb says it weighs an estimated 4491 lbs.   It's solid and green and full of water.  It was cut mid summer 2015 and I sealed the ends when I got it home.   

Species: Oak, Water   Small End Diameter: 35.00   Large End Diameter: 42.00   Length: 9.00'   Quantity: 1.00   Estimated Weight: 4491

Contrast that with the 9' hollow walnut log.  My skid steer forks can pick it up like it's nobodies business.   What does this say?  It says it weighs less than we all thought.   

[beenthere]

tburch
Use the weight of log calculator in our Forestry Forum toolbox. just sayin... already have it in-house. ;)