Vacutherm iDry input

Stephen1 · October 07, 2020, 11:52:58 AM

I do not always get the choice of sawing the wood. I am receiving wood from other sawyers. Not always sawn properly, pith still in, partial pith, wavey wood. I now have a waiver that explains that to the customer that bought green wood.
I understand about the cupping, that makes a lot of sense. I will pay more attention to that as I am stacking and stickering the wood as it is dropped off.
Thanks

Just Right · November 14, 2020, 06:44:18 PM

Hello all. Haven't had a chance to be on here in a while. Busy just like everyone else. Still love the I dry kiln and it runs every single day. Still not putting weight on top of it and it comes out good. Have recently started taking Kubinec strapping and putting about 3 bands on the stack and getting it banjo string tight by spraying water on the strap and buckle and tighten with the ratchet tightener. Don't really know the PSI component by doing it this way but sounds about like a good C sharp. Picked that tidbit up on U tube. And that has seemed to help out a bit too. Also got tired of baffling so I try to use the wood to baffle itself. Just offset the ends when able so there are no big voids for the air to go thru. I do agree that more air drying is better than green wood. Plus I tell customers the air drying is free and that usually goes over well with them. Like several of ya'll that I hear on here I am booked out 5 to 7 loads out at all times. That is always good. I too have also started using the lower power setting for 10 days to 2 weeks on white and red oak and some other hard woods. I think that does help a lot. Haven't really tried the pallet system. Just use 2 inch profiled stickers on the bottom and 3/4 for the rest of it. My helper and I can turn around a load in about 3 to 4 hours just hand stacking it.

boardwalker · November 22, 2020, 10:45:08 PM

Hi

I have been looking at kilns for quite awhile. I just started researching the IDry kilns, and have read everything I can find out about them here and online.

I was wandering if any one that owns one of these or the manufacture could tell me how much heat loss there is from the kiln to the room where it is being operated? Are the exterior walls of the kiln room temperature or hot to the touch?

How much of the advertised KW usage is used for heating and how much is for the vacuum pump and controls?

Thank you for now. I will probably have lots more questions later.

boardwalker · November 23, 2020, 12:20:19 AM

Hi

I have a question for
Stephen1.

What was the moisture content of the 4/4 pine you dried for your son-in-law when it went in the kiln?

Thank you

boonesyard · November 23, 2020, 11:12:51 AM

Quote from: boardwalker on November 22, 2020, 10:45:08 PM
Hi

I have been looking at kilns for quite awhile. I just started researching the IDry kilns, and have read everything I can find out about them here and online.

I was wandering if any one that owns one of these or the manufacture could tell me how much heat loss there is from the kiln to the room where it is being operated? Are the exterior walls of the kiln room temperature or hot to the touch?

How much of the advertised KW usage is used for heating and how much is for the vacuum pump and controls?

Thank you for now. I will probably have lots more questions later.

There is some heat loss from the kiln to the room. It is not hot to the touch, but the outside walls of the kiln run 10-15 degrees warmer than the room temp. This was the first summer we've run ours (it also shares space in our wood working shop) and I can tell you the heat was tough. Typically our shop stays comfortable in the summer, it's spray foam insulated, but this year with the iDry we were dealing with temps over 90. There will be air conditioning next year. On the other hand, it's great in the cold months (and we have plenty of them). Our propane bill for heat went down.
I don't know what the breakout is for the heating and the vacuum pump, but the vacuum pump does not run very much so I know the heating and fan are the bulk of the power usage. Our iDry power consumption generally runs about $270/month.

boardwalker · November 23, 2020, 12:24:09 PM

Thank you for your reply. Do you have the electric heat option? What is your cost per KW, and is it running 24/7?

Thanks

Stephen1 · November 23, 2020, 09:15:57 PM

Quote from: boardwalker on November 23, 2020, 12:20:19 AM
Hi

I have a question for
Stephen1.

What was the moisture content of the 4/4 pine you dried for your son-in-law when it went in the kiln?

Thank you

That I would not remember. I would expect 4/4 pine green to dry in the 7 days.
The kiln is designed for a 60F building. No freezing allowed. It is not as super insulated as you would think or hope. The klln is designed for moisture to condence on the interior walls. To well insulated and no condensaton.
It runs 24/7. Think giant convection oven. My electric has been $400+ a month,but we had a break for the last 6 months. We will be $500 going forward into the winter.

boardwalker · November 23, 2020, 10:13:55 PM

Thank you for your answer.

Lostinmn · December 10, 2020, 08:44:52 PM

Wondering how large cookies are coming out? Anyone doing these that can share what percentage are coming out with extensive cracking vs solid (i.e. loss percentage)? percentages by species? Are you doing cookies as part of a mixed load or anyone have tried full load?

boonesyard · December 11, 2020, 12:56:02 PM

We've thrown in some cookies to take up some space in a couple loads. Some black walnut and silver maple. They were are dried before going in (down to less than 20%), and all I can say is they generally did not crack any worse than when they went in.

Stephen1 · December 30, 2020, 05:05:11 PM

I have been using a utilty pump to drain a pan under the kiln when it drains. I pump it into a storage tank to monitor how much water is coming out each day. I have 6" of room under the kiln for a drain pan.
My problem is the pumps are only lasting 6 months. I have been soaking the magnet switch in varsol to clean it. I get another few months and then the pumps give up the ghost. They are garranteed for 2 years but I am tired of worrying about when it is going to die. I keep taking them back, but eventually someone will catch on and cut me off.
It was suggested to use a sewage pump, the ones I see are set a on a pedestil and of course I really do not see them pumping out to the bottom of my pan.
What is everyone else using if you are using a pump?

boonesyard · December 31, 2020, 10:58:01 AM

Quote from: Stephen1 on December 30, 2020, 05:05:11 PM
I have been using a utilty pump to drain a pan under the kiln when it drains. I pump it into a storage tank to monitor how much water is coming out each day. I have 6" of room under the kiln for a drain pan.
My problem is the pumps are only lasting 6 months. I have been soaking the magnet switch in varsol to clean it. I get another few months and then the pumps give up the ghost. They are garranteed for 2 years but I am tired of worrying about when it is going to die. I keep taking them back, but eventually someone will catch on and cut me off.
It was suggested to use a sewage pump, the ones I see are set a on a pedestil and of course I really do not see them pumping out to the bottom of my pan.
What is everyone else using if you are using a pump?

The problem is the tannins in the drain water is tough on a utility pump that is made for generally clean water. A wastewater pump has the ability to pass a certain amount of solids (depending upon the pump suction and discharge size) and the parts are generally more robust. The issue you will have with going to this style of pump is simply the clearance/room under the kiln. With only 6" of room for collection and pump pick-up, a utility/puddle pump is all there is room for. It could be done with some larger piping, connections and the right end suction pump, but it can get pricey fast.
I'm fortunate in that I have a large trench drain close by that our kiln water is piped to. When I want to monitor water output, I simply lay a heavy contractor trash bag in the drain and collect the water that way. We dump it in to a bucket daily after the drain cycle to measure. It's a little messing around, but it's cheap and accurate.

Stephen1 · December 31, 2020, 02:57:52 PM

I have an email to pump manufaturer to see what they can do for me. In the meantime I will take advantage of the 2 year warranty.

Just Right · January 11, 2021, 12:31:09 AM

When I installed my kiln, I dug a ditch and installed about 100 feet of that foam field line. I don't have a good place for it to run off and didn't want a huge mud hole all the time. So the water from the vacuum pump and the inside of the kiln goes straight down the drain. When I picked up the kiln I had a very good and long talk with Brian up there in Vermont, and my take away was to use the temperature as my gauge as to know when the wood was done. Saves me a lot of time and all those math problems. I just never needed to know how much water was coming out of the kiln. So I didn't look into any kind of pump for that purpose.

boonesyard · January 11, 2021, 09:35:37 AM

Quote from: Just Right on January 11, 2021, 12:31:09 AM
When I installed my kiln, I dug a ditch and installed about 100 feet of that foam field line. I don't have a good place for it to run off and didn't want a huge mud hole all the time. So the water from the vacuum pump and the inside of the kiln goes straight down the drain. When I picked up the kiln I had a very good and long talk with Brian up there in Vermont, and my take away was to use the temperature as my gauge as to know when the wood was done. Saves me a lot of time and all those math problems. I just never needed to know how much water was coming out of the kiln. So I didn't look into any kind of pump for that purpose.

Just Right,
Not sure what you mean by "use the temperature as my gauge as to know when the wood was done"? Do you mean the internal wood temp?
I didn't start measuring the kiln drain water, it just gives me an idea if I'm getting close to squeezing the water out that I need to.

Just Right · January 11, 2021, 10:09:52 PM

Hay there Booneyard. As Brian explained it to me, as the wood gets hotter more moisture comes out of the wood. Then the lack of that moisture allows it to get even hotter after the open cycle. And so on. So as you noticed when you put in a charge of wood that is lets say green pine. . . . cut the tree yesterday and sawed it this morning and put it in the kiln this afternoon. . . .it will start at around ambient temp and gradually increase in temp from there . . . .and in a week ish when it gets to 163ish on the temp read out on your control panel it is done. Tried it time and time again checking with moisture meter all over the charge in different places. Now lets take the same pine wood that has aired dried down to EMC and put it in the kiln. . . . . . it doesn't take it that long to get up to 163ish at all maybe 4 days. . . . . again checked with moisture meter at different places in the charge and it is done also. . . . .Same with hardwoods too. If I don't get a temp of 163ish . . . . .and I think I should of been there already. . . .I know something is wrong. . . . like a blown fuse and only one element has been on. Two years ago my first load was for GA Tech. They had a Zero Carbon footprint building they were building called the Kendeda Building. Lots of wood, metal, and concrete etc. . . . .They wanted everything repurposed. So they had cut some trees down off campus years ago about 2.5 inches thick that had been aired dried since they were cut down. So being new and not knowing anything about this drying process I was fully expecting to have these slabs in the kiln for 3 weeks or so. . . . .With in 3 days it was up to 163ish with little to no water coming out of the kiln at all . . . . Needless to say that required a phone call for Idry to tell me that the wood was probably already at EMC and there wouldn't be a lot of water coming out. . . . .Moisture meter from both sides said it was dry . . . . . Now I have had other thick slabs in the kiln and have noticed based on the MC going in determines the length of time it will take the kiln to reach temp. The lower the MC the quicker the load is done. So being lazy and such . . . . I take the easy way out and just wait till my temp gets to 163ish and pull the load. I know that was kind of long . . . .but I hope that explains what I am thinking and answered your question.

boonesyard · January 12, 2021, 09:36:32 AM

Just Right,

This is very interesting. I haven't done much pine (I'm about to). We do a lot of white oak and black walnut, both kinda cranky. Lets say a load of 8/4 slabs, after air drying and getting the moisture down to around 20%, we put it in to the kiln at a setting of 130 deg so as not to heat up and dry too fast. The temp in the kiln will go to 130 within a 1/2 day. Typically 8/4 white oak will take 10-12 days at this temp, then we turn it up to 160 to finish for 5-7 days. We've found this works well (most of the time) in lessening the moisture pockets and case hardening.

I've got a couple large truck loads of pine we'll be sawing up and I'll give your method a try on a load and see how it goes. Thanks for the response.

Just Right · January 12, 2021, 10:22:28 PM

Sounds good let me know how that works out for you. I have dried a lot of walnut slabs with very good results. And I do like to air dry white oak longer than the rest to get the best results and start it on low power too.

Stephen1 · January 16, 2021, 01:37:32 PM

I still use the temperature. I have mine set for 160. I get a swing in the temp depending on forward or reverse. Do you wait until you have an equal temp of 163 both forward and reverse?
I also only draw 207 versus 220-240 . I believe this affects the length of time in the kiln.

boonesyard · January 17, 2021, 08:59:25 AM

207 vs 220, I never thought about that. I wonder how much that changes things?

PAmizerman · January 17, 2021, 04:47:51 PM

@Busysawyer just wondering if your cost to run numbers match that of the electric units. If I already have the boiler would that be the most cost effective option?
Have you figured out the cost to run?
Not counting firewood as a cost factor.

Stephen1 · January 18, 2021, 11:00:25 AM

I do not really know. I did add reflective insulation under the kiln to reflect the heat and insulate from the colder floor. warmed the kiln up by 2f.
My shop runs around 60F
I have overhead radiant heaters but my gas bill is small compared to electric. I keep all my equipment in the shop, so once the radiant warms the steel up it tends to help hold at 60.
I have thought about adding insulated board to rest the kiln, but I am concerned the condesation will diminish.

Just Right · January 28, 2021, 07:55:45 PM

Stephen . . .no just on the high side of 163. Let that sit for maybe a day and pull it out.

4x4American · August 08, 2021, 11:43:02 PM

Is everybody still liking their iDry kilns?

8) or

muchos konichiwas

boonesyard · August 09, 2021, 09:05:57 AM

Yes, simple, relatively fast, cost effective and does a nice job.

My only issue with it is it shares space in my wood shop. When it runs, it vents some heat and it gets too warm to work in the shop in the summer. To remedy, we're going to build its own space next year. It's a love hate thing that way, because in the winter, my shop heating bill goes down to nothing.