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Tramp metal and other surprises

Started by chet, April 26, 2005, 10:52:52 PM

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chet

Up till now I have never had a blade charge for milling. But after an extremely rough weekend, I think it is time to rethink my policy.  :-\    How do you folks handle charging for tramp metal?
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

pigman

When I hit metal in a customers log they give me $20.  If the blade is able to cut at all, I will search for the other nails in the same log and not charge for the second hit. Most of the time I have to change after the first hit. The most blades I damaged was 4 on a small notty cherry log the customer just had to have sawed. ::)
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Tom

I tell them that I charge $20 for a "nailed" blade.   In reality I charge up to twenty dollars.  I know the age of the blade and whether I can repair it or not.  Also I have favorite customers and know when one has made a valiant effort.  sometimes  it's better to write "one nailed blade-no charge on the invoice for advertising purposes.  A good customer needs a break sometimes.  It might even look better to write "blade $20" and then give a "good old boy discount" on the total bill.  That means no percentage, just a flat number.  It could be $20 if you wanted.

woodbowl

My policy is almost like pigman. I let them know right up front. If I hit metal, blades are $25. You eat the first one, I'll eat the second one, then we'll split the rest untill one of us chickens out. That's fair!----- I usually hear a little chuckle approving, that it is fair and that there won't be problems paying me.----Here's what it amounts to: anyway you look at it, your gona' get $25 for the first hit. You may not hit another. If you do, that brings the average down to $12.50 for every blade that is damaged. Doesn't sound like much but that is half the cost of a new blade. When I get home, I take the damaged blade and try to put a good heavy grind on it to shape it back up. It won't ever cut quite the same again but 90% of the time it will cut and 30%-50% of my hits are used regular again. If I suspect that there are nails in a butt, guess which blades I use to saw it up? By the time I go through a batch of blades, I have recovered almost the total cost of my blades as when they were bought new. Sounds too good to be true? Yea, it is. I would much rather pay for all my own blades, never hit a nail  and never have to charge a customer for nail damage. All this is down time that takes away from sawing. It's only a method to recover some of the loss. And it's fair.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

UNCLEBUCK

How about for a circle mill ?  I seriously have to try this metal detection but I know its not for me because its just too much doinkin around. Never slammed into anything super hard but I  I do have a soft sheer pin but I suppose it dont take much to damage a circle saw . ???
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Ron Wenrich

You can charge by the nail or by the tooth.  I know of guys who do it both ways. 

One guy was charging $25 per tooth.  That seems too pricey to me, but you do lose some sawing time by having to sharpen and/or replace the tooth.

I hit some nails last week that tore off 4 teeth and damaged 10 others.  Charging $25/tooth would be too much.  It was 3 nails and I ended up replacing the teeth.  Company logs, so I chewed out the boss.

The absolute worst case is if you rip the shoulders off the saw.  They cost $75 to repair plus your saw needs to be hammered.  Get too many and its a new saw - $2000.

If the log looks like it has tramp metal, I always make sure the customer knows he is liable for damages. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

woodmills1

I give one nailed blade for free, then its metal detector time and 20 bucks a blade after that. If the job was set up on a board foot cost then it changes to hourly during nail hunting and removal.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

oakiemac

I charge $3.45/tooth that is destroyed. If it is just damaged and can be resharpened then I may or may not charge the whole amount. Like Tom said, sometimes it is better to give a good customer a break.

Speaking of metal, I was given a walnut log that was 12' long and 24". It was a nice staight log. I scanned it with the detector and found a couple of spots that had metal. The log looked too nice to throw away so I put old teeth on the saw and went at it. I got a few boards off then  heard the screeching sound of metal and it went all down hill from there. I think I hit about 6 nails. I was pretty dissappointed but can't complain about a free log. :(
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

UNCLEBUCK

10-4 boys !  I will charge by the tooth as well . That sounds like a reasonable deal . Thanks and I always give a break to nice people too . Its the guy with one or two logs that ends up coming back alot more .
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Sawyerfortyish

I stopped most of the custom sawing jobs because of hitting metal and glass insulaters and concrete.  But still do a little . Now I always scan the logs with a metal detector first thing. Then I tell them if I missed any steel or hit anything else I'll replace or fix the damaged teeth. But the clock is still ticking and it's 100.00 an hour and I have to fix the blade and dig the steel out of the log. So you decide just how much time and $$$ that log is worth.

Kevin_H.

I charge $25.00 per damaged blade, I have had a lot of customers ask if I had a metal detector, but I have really turned away from buying one, I think that if you offer to scan the custmers logs you just wined up getting more questionable logs thrown into the mix.

I do offer to leave any of the damaged blades with the customer, since they paid for them. Most dont keep them but some do. ;D
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

sigidi

A bit late on this one, but I just had to send blades (Lucas circular) off to get re-tipped and re-tensioned - seven blades all up went off to the saw doctor.

I don't have a metal detector, but I say to my customers I'm happy to saw any log, although foreign material in the log is at your own cost, which I will only charge what it costs me to repair it, so if the saw doctor says new blade entirely, then it could be $300 or a re-tip is just $30 - whatever it costs me. Folkes eem pretty happy with that and I'm not out of pocket or making money on it, so I'm pretty happy too.
Always willing to help - Allan

Ron Wenrich

When I'm asked about a metal detector, I usually tell them I have 3 of them.  Two 22 tooth metal detectors (vertical edger) and one 46 tooth metal detector (head saw).  If there's metal in those logs, one of those detectors will find it.   :D
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

AtLast

I charge $25.00 to metal detect prior to sawing and assume responsibility....that way IF I hit metal...the blade is paid for...

Timburr

sigidi  My my...seven blades!!...you HAVE been busy! smiley_speechless

When a customer asks for some milling work (I drive a Lucas), we talk about the source of the timber and it inevitably comes out in conversation that I charge more for milling metal than I do for wood. :D :D This light hearted banter usually makes them  feel at ease. But seriously, I charge what it costs me for the repair. I have had many metal strikes, but have only charged for one :( - a rich doctor. The remainder, I have absorbed because the blade was down...fair wear and tear.

One guy and his son wanted a punky old beam re-sawing into a 9"x9" mantle place beam. They spent hours finding and pulling out nails using a metal detector whilst I was doing other things. I went over and asked how it was going, they said we are still finding nails, we've found about 50 already, he said with a sheepish look. I said I will put an old blade on and take it very slowly - nails and all. :o      You lot must think I'm mad... You're so right, I am ;D ;D   Well, I squared off his mantle and checked the teeth, just one very small chip that was sharpened out. The guy was so grateful he gave me a large tip on top of my fee :) ;D :)

Tim
Sense is not common

customsawyer

I charge $25.00/blade. If the customer starts to get excited than I know that there is a good chance that there is metal in the logs. I will than offer to check the logs with the metal detector by the hour or I will check the first one and the customers can check the rest to there satisfaction as I am sawing but I still charge them for the blades. It seems that when they first start checking they will do a through job but as the day wears on they don't check quite as well and you end up hitting some metal. If it is a good customer or a new customer that put in some effort to have the site ready for me when I get there and I cut a few thousand feet of lumber with only one nail than I show them the discount on there invoice to keep them comming back cause we all know that is the kind of customers we like.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Sawing Logz

I have been blessed with the force. OK just kiding I get $8.00 if the blade can be reset and no loss of teeth, and $30-35.00 per blade that hits braking objects, not all will be metal, and easy to detect.

Just my thoughts, Jeff
City Forrest Treecycler

iain

I've bought a detector (when my boys let me use it), but i dont really bother scanning customers logs, but always make a point of saying if i whang a blade then they own it "are you realy sure there's nothing in there", all so far have been cool, and all have insisted they pay for the damage, even when i say at bill time its ok dont worry 8)


iain

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