Good morning everyone,
I just joined the forum after lurking as a guest for a while and enjoying the great info on here. I have been interested in sawmilling for many years and it seems my interest is coming to a head. After much thought and flip-flopping back and forth I have decided to build my own bandsaw-mill. I was originally leaning towards a woodmizer lx 25 (mostly because of cost) but considering my day job as a welding instructor and love of building things I figured I should just build my own. Besides, I will (read should) be able to get more saw for the money. I will attach a cad image of what I have now and keep you updated as the build progresses.
Again, thanks for all the great content.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65570/Bandmill_v15.jpg)
I would add a log stop for short logs and make sure the beam you use to support your band wheels is stout you don't want any flex there if your using a single member.
Thanks. My intent is to get the basic design built and in use and I can add additional log stops/clamps easily later on. While this is only a two post mill and has a single member supporting the bandwheels it should all be quite stout. the beam to which the bandwheels are mounted is 3x3x3/16 square tubing. I am loosely basing my design off of Mathew Cremona's bandsaw (if you are familiar with his youtube channel. If not, you should look him up.)
Make it long!! I have a mill that can get 20 foot logs. I cut a 16 foot log and I have 4 feet of room to spare, not inches. The extra room gets the head out of the way too.
Make a place to cut short logs, even 3 feet log. Use that place a few times, and you will be glad you did.
My mill has four posts but essentially only uses 2. I think 3x3 3/16s should do the trick. Make the sliders that sleeve over your vertical posts a bit longer to help it not want to bind while going up and down. I think I made mine 6" originally then had to go back and made them 12"ish. How wide are you going. The wider you go the more stout it needs to be. I've watched a few of Matt's videos pretty nice saw he's built. Another thing I would suggest is building your width around blade lengths that are readily available so you don't have to have any custom made. Mine are 158" which gives me about 32" between the guides. I run 19" band wheels from surplus center. I like wood mizer blades the best so far between cooks, kasko, and wm. Cooks makes great blade guides that can be added to any mill. In my opinion they are a must.
Quote from: thecfarm on April 03, 2021, 05:43:51 AM
Make it long!! I have a mill that can get 20 foot logs. I cut a 16 foot log and I have 4 feet of room to spare, not inches. The extra room gets the head out of the way too.
Make a place to cut short logs, even 3 feet log. Use that place a few times, and you will be glad you did.
I have been going back and forth on size but I am thinking I will likely make the bed 20 ft. since that is standard length for steel anyways. And yes, I will make sure there is a place to cut small stuff.
Quote from: JRWoodchuck on April 03, 2021, 11:09:44 AM
My mill has four posts but essentially only uses 2. I think 3x3 3/16s should do the trick. Make the sliders that sleeve over your vertical posts a bit longer to help it not want to bind while going up and down. I think I made mine 6" originally then had to go back and made them 12"ish. How wide are you going. The wider you go the more stout it needs to be. I've watched a few of Matt's videos pretty nice saw he's built. Another thing I would suggest is building your width around blade lengths that are readily available so you don't have to have any custom made. Mine are 158" which gives me about 32" between the guides. I run 19" band wheels from surplus center. I like wood mizer blades the best so far between cooks, kasko, and wm. Cooks makes great blade guides that can be added to any mill. In my opinion they are a must.
If you look closely at the design (I will post some more pictures) you will notice I am using linear rails for the saw head so there should be no issue with binding.
I have intended all along to go with a standard blade size but am still trying to decide exactly how wide. Since the cost to make the mill wider is actually not very significant I am leaning towards 48" max log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65570/Bandmill_v15~0.jpg)
Welcome to a great place!
20' bed rails will not cut a 20' log. Maybe 16. Your blade does not start at the beginning of the 20' bed rail.
Good luck on the build. What size engine?
A 48" log is a monster! Got loading equipment?
A walnut or white oak 48" log 8' long is going to weigh in the 5,800 to 6,000 pound range. Even a poplar that size will be 4,000ish. Better have a stout bed on the mill and something big to move logs like that!
I don't know where your located but around here box tubing comes in 24' standard length where angle and solid come in 20' standards.
I made my bed 24' long because that is what the 2x6x.188 came standard for length.
I like your saddle detail for the bearings, the only thing that would concern me there is being so close together alignment is going to be very touchy. a 1/4 turn on a screw will be the difference between on the wheels and off.
When I originally built my mill I set it up for a 158 blade. gave me 31" between the guides. later I decided I wanted to cut wider so I added an extension to the sawframe and an extension for my tensioning ram. now my sawmill is setup to run 158 or 176" blade. works pretty slick. very easy changeover with no realignment.
make sure you have some type of physical stop on the sliding part of the sawframe. Otherwise when a blade lets go your going to be searching for the wheel and whatever else goes with it :)
Quote from: TroyC on April 03, 2021, 01:24:56 PM
A 48" log is a monster! Got loading equipment?
It is... and nope. If I ever cut a log that big it will likely be only a couple times and I do have friends with equipment to borrow. My thoughts are just that if I am building a mill myself not only is the cost of going wider (for that once in a lifetime log) minimal but it will also make my mill more stable since it will be in a trailer configuration for portability.
Quote from: Crusarius on April 03, 2021, 02:02:28 PM
make sure you have some type of physical stop on the sliding part of the sawframe. Otherwise when a blade lets go your going to be searching for the wheel and whatever else goes with it :)
This is something that never occurred to me.....Good advice.
Quote from: Rybot on April 02, 2021, 11:06:32 PM
While this is only a two post mill and has a single member supporting the bandwheels it should all be quite stout. the beam to which the bandwheels are mounted is 3x3x3/16 square tubing.
This size square tubing is way too light for your band wheel beam. For a mill the size you're building, I wouldn't use anything smaller than 4"X4"X1/4" and would more likely go with 6"X6"X1/4" or 4"X6"X1/4". The tension needed for the blade puts a lot of stress on this beam and it doesn't take much to cause blade tracking problems. This would be the most important part of getting it right the first time.
if you want to use a single member for the sawframe I would lean more towards a 2x6x.188. The single 2" is going to bow when the band is tensioned and as Rayar pointed out depending on band tension will change your tracking.
I ended up with 2 2x2x.188 wall and it works great cause I ended up with 2 2.5x2.5x.188 pieces that slide on those connected together and the tensioner is in between the beams. This allows me to push straight on the sliding part and not side load it causing the frame to want to bend more.
not the best picture but the quickest one to find.
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/IMG_2137.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1505908875)
Check out my gallery for more details.
My advice is to build your back stops so that they are all connected and can be manipulated from the side of the mill without having to step over the rails. All 3 of mine started out with a lock nut and each one had to be raised and lowered. It doesn't sound like much but it is very tiring stepping over the rails every time.
Thanks everyone for the great advice. I may have a source for some 5x5x.25 square tubing which I will likely use if I can get it.
A question....What are your thoughts on blade guards? I definitely don't want it to be wide open like some of the DIYs I see online but Fully enclosed like the commercial models is a lot more works and expense. Some of the saws I have seen (when they use tires for bandwheels) just use trailer fenders or the like to cover most of the blade so it doesn't flip all over when it breaks.....Thoughts?
I built mine out of plywood for the faces and 1/16" steel plate for the top it's fully enclosed and I like it. Broken blades do funny things
Definitely cover those band-wheels! Without, you have no way of knowing where that really sharp blade is heading if it breaks!
I have 2 16 gauge stainless covers over the wheels and the top is a piece of 5" angle. The outlet side the guard stops just above the blade and has a rubber flap to redirect debris. the other side goes around until it hits the bed at the lowest setting. that is the operator side.
I test drove it without guards. that was scary. I like guards
another piece of advice I can give. where I work they use 1.25" steel banding. I had them cut and make me a loop 158" long and 176" long. I used those loops for mockup and alignment. The banding does not bite nearly as bad as a fresh new blade!
That's about what I expected to hear. Everyone mind posting pictures of your guard setup?
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I built mine from sheet metal off the sides of an old cook stove and dryer.
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Thanks. I think I will do full enclosure.
Quote from: trimguy on April 05, 2021, 10:32:04 PM
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I built mine from sheet metal off the sides of an old cook stove and dryer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/57881/A72FC239-D75C-4F51-B8B7-123992C3CFA7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1617676234)
Your engine looks like the HF 420 CC Predator engine? if so what are your thoughts? enough horsepower? That is the engine I am planning on.
On my mighty mite mill the guards are all metal and as a newbie at sawing I have ruined several blades when I inadvertently jerked the saw backward and the blade came off hitting the guards. After 3-4 of those (slow learner) I lined the guards with rubber belting which has saved me blades several times, however the belting is not very durable but it was free. I am now thinking plywood with UHMV lining would be preferable and save some blades $$$$$ during the learning process.
I made mine out of aluminium sheet and have had blade come off twice, no damage either times maybe a tooth missing but maybe it was already, I haven't thrown any out since I got the mill running yet!
I built mine with spare metal plate and plywood covers before I even ran the saw. It was probably one of the first things finished. I did do a test run without them and the blade came off at full speed. If it didn't hit a stack of firewood I had, I think it would still be rolling. Definitely something you want contained.
Making some design progress. Haven't started on the guard yet but I think I have the bandwheel beam complete. I decided to go with 6x2x.188 rect. tubing since several other components will be made of the same and I will likely have plenty left over to do the beam.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65570/bandmill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1617711207)
I still have to figure out engine mounting. I really want to mount the engine similar to the woodmizer lx 25 where the drive belt goes between the blade and the bandwheel (belt pulley). Thoughts?
Yes that is the 420 CC predator engine. I'm happy with it. Never had any problems. Hp wise, I would have to slow down some in wide cuts. It was manual so you could feel as you were pushing it. I've since upgraded to an Lt40 with a 26 hp and still had times I wished it was larger. Bigger is better. Good luck.
Rybot, that looks nice do your best to balance the head. put your drive pulley where the engine balances the weight so the head does not have any bind. I am very curious to know how the linear bearings are goig to hold up. I was going to use them but after using them for my router sled in my shop the bearings started getting packed with sawdust. Not sure how long term they will work in that application.
I had the 20mm round ones. They do not have the best seal on them. The rectangles should work much better.
I will keep you posted how they work. Like I mentioned in a previous post, Matt Cremona uses them and doesn't seem to have any issues. They are supposed to handle torsional loads very well according to the literature I have read. I am using two carriages on each side to better handle the torsion of any imbalance.
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yes. they definitely do all of that. Ebay has good deals on them. but unfortunately they are chinese. But then again even the name brand ones are chinese.
Only reason I have not ordered a set of square ones is because my CNC project got put on hold. But I can see that getting resurrected this summer. Unless I build sawmill v25 instead :)
Fwiw crusarius I used them on my vertical lift, and only one on each side, not even a pair, and they're going great. I'd use a pair each side next time though. Cheap bugger I was.
I got them from a friend who has a business producing plasma cutters and he uses them on his machines. He had one of his earlier models in a shop next door and does a bit of profile cutting, he said it hadn't been greased for 10 years just sent back and forth in the crap, no trouble with them.
I reckon they're a solid choice.
Well...I didn't like how the design was going so I decided to start over. I broke one of the first rules of design...that is, start with a design intent.
In my last design I kept changing my mind on things as I was designing things and it made the design process very difficult.
Now that I have a clear design intent things are moving along much more smoothly.
Design intent:
- Must cut wood (my 3 yo. son's input)
- Trailer mounted
- Bed frame made from rect. tubing
- Bed rails of angle iron
- Bed length 16' w/ option to add extensions later
- 48" max log
- Linear rails for saw head vertical travel and blade guide travel
- Sawhead built exclusively (or as close as possible) from laser cut flat stock
- Pushbutton electric throttle control and water/coolant control
- All manual (for now)
- Raised "blade bunks" (kind of like the woodmizer lx 150 so sawdust doesn't build up) for fork access
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make the tongue removable. you will not regret it. also make sure you can easily square the backstops to the bed. that is my biggest hate of my mill.
It is also nice to have all the backstops connected together to go up and down the same time. Make the first one taller than the rest that way if the blade clears 1 it will clear them all. Or put a blade stop on it so you cannot cut the backstop.
For this go round I am just doing all manual independent backstops. I will definitely have a blade guard to prevent cutting metal :)
Looks like your log stops go straight up and down?, like mine.
I put marks on mine, at 4-6-8 inches. 4 inches is really 3½ inches. So when I set the log stop at 4 inches, I know I have a ½ inch to spare. Really helps out cutting flitches.
Ok...still working on the redesign. Getting close. One question I have been thinking about is why do you never see chain driven bandsaws? Chains work for motorcycles and other high speed applications. Just curious.
Pretty sure chains have more rolling resistance than belts. takes more power to turn one vs belt. plus, belts slip when the blade jams.
OK. It's been a while. Between taking my sweet time on redesigning the mill and saving money to start building here we are...
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Above you ask for feedback regarding the drive belt placement.
I own 2 mills. One smaller, Hud-Son Oscar 18 and a larger, Hud-Son HFE-36. The 18 has the drive belt in between the blade and band wheel and the larger has a separate pulley for the drive belt.
I really like the design of my larger saw that has a separate pulley for the drive belt.
Here is why I dislike the design with the belt in between the blade and band wheel.
1. Assuming you have bearings on each side of the band wheel, this means you cant change the drive belt without loosening one bearing and unbolting the other. This is because the drive belt is inside the bearings. Because you now fooled with the bearings, you need to make sure you realign the band wheels every time you change a belt.
2. I find that if I run too much lube on my small saw, the blade will slip on the belt. (not a big deal, I just make sure not to run too wet)
3. I find that my small saw cuts "dirtier" and leaves more stains on the wood. My theory as to why this happens is that with the blade and drive belt coming into direct contact with each other, sawdust+lube+rubber wearing from the belt, produces dirt. The blade then carries the dirt into the wood. The staining is not bad if the saw head is in motion, but if you stop for any period of time, your going to get a stain because the blade isnt moving.
4. My experience has been that when you snap a blade, and you will, often some of the teeth end up coming in contact with the drive belt because they are so close. This will put a nice slice in the belt greatly shortening its life.
Since the cost to make the mill wider is actually not very significant I am leaning towards 48" max log.
Wider is better because if a saw is designed to cut XX" max, and you actually put the max size on it, you will struggle.
Logs are rarely straight.
On the other hand, 48" sounds kind of extreme to me especially without a log loader.
rybot, mine has a chain drive on the drive wheels. I have a belt coming off engine to the clutch and brake then a chain for the final speed reduction. I am sure coming of the engine would be to fast for chain. I do think a chain has less power loss than a belt though. I will have to look that one up though.
How close are the bunks on you mill? I had mine 4 feet apart till I found out some ends hang down and boards do warp while sawing. I believe you will be putting one in between each of them. Also makes it nice to cut less than four foot logs.
Quote from: fluidpowerpro on July 14, 2021, 06:12:54 PM
Above you ask for feedback regarding the drive belt placement.
I own 2 mills. One smaller, Hud-Son Oscar 18 and a larger, Hud-Son HFE-36. The 18 has the drive belt in between the blade and band wheel and the larger has a separate pulley for the drive belt.
I really like the design of my larger saw that has a separate pulley for the drive belt.
Here is why I dislike the design with the belt in between the blade and band wheel.
1. Assuming you have bearings on each side of the band wheel, this means you cant change the drive belt without loosening one bearing and unbolting the other. This is because the drive belt is inside the bearings. Because you now fooled with the bearings, you need to make sure you realign the band wheels every time you change a belt.
2. I find that if I run too much lube on my small saw, the blade will slip on the belt. (not a big deal, I just make sure not to run too wet)
3. I find that my small saw cuts "dirtier" and leaves more stains on the wood. My theory as to why this happens is that with the blade and drive belt coming into direct contact with each other, sawdust+lube+rubber wearing from the belt, produces dirt. The blade then carries the dirt into the wood. The staining is not bad if the saw head is in motion, but if you stop for any period of time, your going to get a stain because the blade isnt moving.
4. My experience has been that when you snap a blade, and you will, often some of the teeth end up coming in contact with the drive belt because they are so close. This will put a nice slice in the belt greatly shortening its life.
Since the cost to make the mill wider is actually not very significant I am leaning towards 48" max log.
Wider is better because if a saw is designed to cut XX" max, and you actually put the max size on it, you will struggle.
Logs are rarely straight.
On the other hand, 48" sounds kind of extreme to me especially without a log loader.
I have opted to have the drive belt behind the saw beam (like matt cremona's).
Quote from: welderskelter on July 14, 2021, 07:07:51 PM
How close are the bunks on you mill? I had mine 4 feet apart till I found out some ends hang down and boards do warp while sawing. I believe you will be putting one in between each of them. Also makes it nice to cut less than four foot logs.
Without looking at my model I can't remember for sure but I think my bunk spacing is 24"
I did odd spacing on my bed. 36" O.C. for the main heavy 2x6 bunks and then offset from the 36" 12" for the 2x2 that I used for my clamps.
In hindsight the center of the sawmill could stay like that but closer to both ends I would make them tighter. Primary reason is what was already discussed. As your cant get thinner the boards have a tendency to drop on the ends making for thick ends and thin center.
Now I am just careful enough to make sure when I place the cant its close the the bunks on the ends.
i suggest you design in a push pull rack with ramps to raise and lower the backstops. Put roller wheels on the bottom like a roller tipped valve lifter... and grease zerks in the holders to ensure smooth action.
I would make sure that the holders are bolted on with grub screws in order to adjust them to run plumb with the saw. Frame will probably pull out of square if its welded. Bolting is tedious but shim-able and doesnt warp the main rails.
If youre going to weld them, preheat the side that isnt getting any welds.
Finally got around to starting to make this look like something. Got the bed frame welded solid at the corners and all the log bunks and cross-members tacked in place.
Not that I wasn't motivated before but I think seeing some progress out my back window every day will help to speed things along.
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interesting way you made the bunks. are you going to plan for a cap on them? I would seriously consider some stainless tube. It will keep from staining the wood and make sliding boards easier with less lips to catch.
The inspiration for the bunks comes mostly from the woodmizer lx 150/250 mills. I have noticed in many of the youtube videos I have watched about milling that wider bunks can collect sawdust and cause issues with keeping the cant level.
As far as stainless tops for the bunks, That could be pretty easily done in the future. Mostly what I want to do with the mill is make timbers for a house and cut wood for rustic industrial style furniture that I like to build. Either way, a little staining is no big deal.
The sawdust issue is a very real one. I have 2x6 bunks and have to be careful of it.
The stain that I get is usually a black stripe on the wood. it is not very appealing.
All my mills' bunks are 1/4" X 4" flat bar between 2" X 4" tubing with approx 23" spacing. No problem with sawdust gathering on them.
rayar, you have any problems with bending? I have a tendency to load logs that are right on the edge of fitting on the mill so I always have to slide them one way or the other to get to fit. I would think the flat plate would want to bend. Especially since my bed is 48" wide.
Quote from: Crusarius on January 18, 2022, 08:47:09 AM
rayar, you have any problems with bending? I have a tendency to load logs that are right on the edge of fitting on the mill so I always have to slide them one way or the other to get to fit. I would think the flat plate would want to bend. Especially since my bed is 48" wide.
Not really, then again, my frame rails are only 26" between them. My mill is currently made for 12 feet, but if I adjust the log just in the right position, I can cut 13 feet. I can move the log ahead or back using the winch cable as if the log was a screw.
On your width frame, I'd be looking at using 3/8" X 6" flat bar for log bunks. You likely won't bend those.
Most of the reason I went with tube was the weight. I was trying to keep it reasonable knowing I would be moving it around alot with my 28hp L2800 and I live on a hill.
Maybe the next build will have something like that.