Ok guys please help me out here
this has probably allready come up here.
this is my first winter with a Band mill anyone have some good tips for sawing frozen logs?
Thanks
Woody
Sell the bandmill buy a circle milll and I'll be glad to help. ;D
Sorry I can't help. Circle mills can be a real treat to make saw in the winter at times. My best advise is get a better computer chair and stay by the forum til spring. :)
I don't have that problem here in Florida. :D
Rule of thumb in Hard wood and frozen logs: less set, less rake, shorter tooth, anti-freeze in the blade lubricant.
Some talk about a frost groove cut in the gullet.
This info was gained from my snooping on the Web. :D Do you need to know anything about suntanning oil? I've spent some time on the beach. ;D
Wear long undies.
I prefer to fell, buck and skid during the Winter months and mill in the Spring.
Wood Mizer sells a blade for frozen wood and hard wood.
Ship 'em down here and i'll thaw them suckers out fer ya !!!
I was jest readin, on the "other " forum, about Stellite blades. Used 'em in Guyana for sawin Some very hard logs. I THINK they were from-------------- BRRAAAAPPP, brain fart--let me get back to you on that.
Fla_Deadheader
My wife said if the logs go to Fla for the winter so do we
Ok, here's the info. There ain't no info. Guys were talking about a large mill, I think. Other guy said the blades are too expensive and won't last on WM's smaller wheels.
They are stellite tipped and don't require setting?? Sounds like big blade stuff?? Sorry, Harold
There is a small circle mill not too far from me. They have their mill indoors and it is powered by electric. The bldg. is heated to maybe 50 degrees. They deck the logs inside and let them thaw out.
Several years ago, I stopped at their place during a January snow storm and was surprized to see them sawing nice clean unfrozen red oak logs. I was envious, as I had another 3 months before my mill could start sawing again. I don't saw in the winter.
I would talk the wife into letting you build a heated bldg. rather than spending money to go to Fl. I've heard stories of how northern folks go to Fl. in the winter for a week or two and come back changed. The next thing they do is sell their place and move south, not to be seen again until summer. It happened to my mother and brother. So be careful :).
I don't do anything special when I'm cutting in the winter except use a lot less blade lubricant. I haven't had that much of a problem with keeping the blade clean. And I use the standard WM blades, so far I haven't see a real need to get yet another box of blades with the different set. From what I have heard though, it makes a difference on what you are cutting. I usually cut white pine, maple, ash, and red oak.
One I do try to do is to cut in a sunny location, and keep the sawdust piled cleared out. I have had the logs freeze to the ground. And I've had to chip off the ice and snow. And of course, you have to be careful not to slip. But then there are no bugs. :D
garry
I run a circle mill, so I don't know how much transferable technology I have. I don't really have much of a problem with frozen logs. I just use narrower teeth, and take off a little set. I also make sure I have good shanks that help prevent spillage of sawdust. I can saw frozen just as well as thawed wood.
Where the problem comes is where you have part frozen and part thawed wood. You are sawing 2 different types of wood, often in the same cut.
Usually, frozen sawdust will stick to the thawed wood on the log side. That will push your blade out of the cut, and it will heat up your blade. If you slow down your feed, sometimes that can offset it, but you still end up with a tapered board.
I've found that it can be cost effective to wait until the logs are completely frozen. I've also found it to be cost effective not to run when it is real cold. The steel gets brittle and your downtime is a lot more, due to breakage.
How that translates to band mills is beyond me. You might want to stop by one of those large bandmills in your area and see what they do during the freeze. Talk to their millwright or sawsmith.
I've read where people use a windshield washer and water mix during the colder months. Has anyone ever tried it? I have a few red pines to cut up this weekend and it's been cold enough for them to be partially frozen.
Yes Noble_Ma windshield washer blue stuff with no water is all I have ever knon people to use hear in Alaska in the long winter. In the summer it's Simple Green thay use and the wood gets a nice smell from it. The onley trouble I have herd of in cuting frozen logs with a bandmill is frozen tows. >:(
Andy
Well I set some bands at .013 per side today and slowed my feed down and they worked quite well in about 15" frozen white oak and hickory today. 8) when I finished that load of ties I started sawing 6X6's for the new building it will be 48' X 50' with heat that includes a 22' log deck inside the heated part. then we will have a 24' X 60' un heated part with no walls for the lumber. it will leave the mill shed on rolls and be stacked under this roof.
Ya'll are welcome to come to Fl, anytime. Ought to have lots of "thawed" logs real soon. We can play with my "sperimental" mill. Should have it partially runable by Monday. Waiting for some hydraulic cylinders and valves. Harold
Deadheader:
PICTURES PLEASE
Ron is right on the half frozen stuff. I actually have more peripheral problems the saw problems when wood is frozen such as sawdust freezing to the carriage wheels and track cleaners, building up and freezing in the small pulleys that my laser cables run on and jumping cables and crap like that. Mid winter sawing is not bad as long as temps stay contant. I would rather have it in the 20s everyday and the teens at night then days in the 30s where the logs partialy thaw. If the sawdust is froze then is dont stick to stuff. If it thaws from friction of sawing or thawing temps it creates problems with whatever it freezes to.
Has it really been that cold to freeze logs? I don't get frozen wood until there is a substantial cold snap. That would include most days below freezing for about a week.
You should have only lost your leaves a week or two ago. Of course, they could have froze off instead of dropping off. :D
NOPE !!! Too early fer pitchers. It's only half painted and looks rough the way it is. :o :D
Ron, no our logs are far from froze yet. Thier not even cooled down. I was talking in general. When we have a lot of logs decked and the piles are 15 to 20 feet tall and the rows are side by side, it takes a pretty good cold spell to freez them other then the logs on the outside of the piles. This year we Have Nil in the yard. zero, zilch, nada. Well maybe a couple. I would imagine I will be dealing with a lot of frozen wood this winter as the trees will freeze quick and my logs are still standing. :)
It won't be lon things is changin.
Day Before Halloween:
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/jeffs_yard_in_fall.jpg)
Day after Halloween:
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/day_after_halloween.jpg)
It has been below freezing for about a week here and my logs are about half frozen it was sawdust sticking to everything today
My wife said we should buy a second mill and go visit fla deadheader with a portable one for the cold months
ALRIGHT !!! Come on down !! I got 2 + jobs waitin. About 100+ Pines to be dropped and sawn. Some ya can't begin to reach around. Besides, If ya get bored, you can always go with us and swim with the gators!! 8) 8) 8) :D :D :D BTW, it's still 85 degrees here???? When's winter coming ??? ;D
Jeff,
I was under the impression that trees won't freeze until the temp. gets down to -30 degrees F. an lower. The sap will get slushy but will not freeze solid. If you cut the tree down and its below freezing, the log will freeze solid in short order. That's what I've always been told.
the logs i am sawing have been laying in my log yard for about 2 months so they freeze prety fast
my wife said that there is one of those blue things with wheels under it for sale up the road from us and she likes gators 8) 8)
Is that the Forestry Forum tree next to the house in the picture taken before Halloweeny?
It sure looks like it, doesn't it kevin?
Could be a frosted tropical. :D
I guess maybe it is the forestry forum tree. Its a juniper. Its the first tree I planted on the property after Tammy and I built the house. the blue spruce in the second picture is the second tree I planted. My dad planted it originally on a north facing hill at his place. At ten years old it was still only 2 foot tall. I planted it in 84 and thought it was permanently stunted. It grew only inches a year. It had a smaller white spruce right next to it til last year. I cut that down as our "Tree of hope" Christmas tree.
That white spruce must have been hogging the nutrients because just this year the blue grew over 3 additional feet! I would say its now around 12 to 15 ft tall.
It was probably suffereing from the "I'm shaded and hungry in Jeff's front yard, nobody loves me anymore, blues."
here is another thing to remember with the cold weather coming. any supports that touch the ground will freeze to it. also any blocks used to level your mill will freeze solid to the ground. In winter I try to remember to lift the hydraulic loader feet off of the ground when not sawing, and lift up some of the leveling feet, especially any that sit below the ground surface. almost nothing worse than getting ready to move the mill for an outside cut and finding that it is frozen solid into or on the ground. try to remember to blow any water out of the drip lines while they are not frozen also.
DanG guys. These are memories I choose to not think about. :D :D :D
In my younger days, I was a lineman for a Power Co. in the NE. Yep, I was born a Yankee. Converted as soon as I could. ;)
Imagine climbing poles that are 10 feet higher than the trees and getting a face full of 0 degree wind, at 20-30 MPH from Alaska, all day long. Can't wear enough clothes, cause ya can't reach the work. How about 250 foot Steel Towers. They were REALLY fun around Jan. or Feb. Extreme cold would snap the Aluminum wires and we HAD to get it back up, DanG the cold !!! Occasionally, ya might stick to the steel. Now THAT was fun. ::)
NOPE, Sunny Fla. is just fine, thank you. May not have the timber here, that I remember, but, I can always go to town wearing shorts on Jan 15, if I want. 8) 8) 8) RIGHT Tom and DanG? Oops, I fergot, youse guys are up in the "FREEZE" belt. ;) ;) Harold
I've never heard of sap only turning to slush. It's primarily sugar water, not anti-freeze. I've been in the woods when I've heard the trees crack from the cold. And I've seen some frost cracks in trees. You get a lot more up there in NY.
Your -30F will cause them to crack. We don't get that cold, but do have spells where it gets down to about 0 for a couple of nights. We haven't had any for a number of years.
QuoteJeff,
I was under the impression that trees won't freeze until the temp. gets down to -30 degrees F. an lower. The sap will get slushy but will not freeze solid. If you cut the tree down and its below freezing, the log will freeze solid in short order. That's what I've always been told.
I guess my answer to that would be: Have you ever taken a coke off the top shelf of the refrigerator, opened it and took a quick drink then watched as the whole thing turned to frozen slush before you could take another?
I just went outside after catching up on these posts to do a little test. I took an axe and wacked the ends of the red pine I have ready to cut. They are both frozen as far as I can get the axe in. Some were cut this week and the others were cut two weeks ago. There's not much sap running from them and I was wondering if that might make them freeze faster??
What's so bad about being a Yankee!!!
I was just wondering if what I heard was true. I'm not a logger so I don't have any first hand experience in cutting down trees in the winter. All I noze is that when I buy logs in the winter there usually frozen solid. I have heard trees pop from the cold but thats only when its in the -20 & below. Haven't seen those temps.in a few years.
Jeff, I'm a pepsi man so I can't relate to the coke thing :).
Ron, It's been awhile since I took chemistry, but, isn't sugar water a weak anti-freeze solution?
Frozen Pine (link) (http://www3.sympatico.ca/kvn.rob/pine1.jpg)
The Alaskan Mill eats frozen logs for breakfast!
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.sympatico.ca%2Fkvn.rob%2Fhurts.gif&hash=ed30124b677966d188652362c44af1ce172ef5f8)
Brian
The operative word there is "weak". You might gain a few degrees, but not all that significant. The -20F would probably be right for most of those northern species. But, those species that grow a little farther south probably aren't as used to those temps. Shoot, down in Florida, their trees probably pop when the temps get down to +25. :D
I often wonder why the more northern species have thinner bark.
The worst time I have for frozen logs is in the spring. Most of the logs in the deck are good, but those laying on the ground are frozen on 1 side. That leads to some interesting sawing.
I've noticed that the logs seem to get harder as the temperature goes down. Sawing softwood at zero is like sawing hardwood at 70. It's real noticeable when you start on a cold mornig and then have the temperature climb during the day.
All this talk about frozen logs makes me want to put another log on the fire.I don't envy you boys up north this time of year but in the summer I could almost sell my place and move :)
BRP
Speakin of FROZE !! We were steamin back to the landing last night and ran the last 2 miles in TOTAL darkness, no runnin lites on the "Barge".. Wind got out of the NW and my shorts and flannel shirt winter wear did NOT do it's job. Wind picked up to about 20 MPH and it dropped to about 48 degrees from the front that moved through. I'm movin MORE south. ;D :D