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Ford 540 vs 445... Now 545 D

Started by Ljohnsaw, September 23, 2021, 12:27:42 PM

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Ljohnsaw

So, I am in need (for quite some time) of a FEL.  I have pretty steep terrain and a 4x4 would be nice but I just don't see much out here other than in a Kabota.  I want to get an industrial loader to handle the logs and lumber.  I have a SkyTrac 9038 but plan on selling it when I'm one with my cabin.  The SkyTrac is pretty much limited to the top 1/4 acre of my 10 acre parcel.  I need to work on my woods road, do my driveway (cut/level, spread gravel).  I'd like it to haul logs from the bottom of my property - either with my log arch or rear forks (if short).

I ran across two tractors, both diesel-

Ford 445 (47hp):
Height (to pin)135 inches
342 cm
Clearance, dumped bucket116.5 inches
295 cm
Dump reach24 inches
60 cm
Dump angle42°
Rollback at ground40°
Rollback at carry45°
Rollback, raised54°
Breakout force (lift)6,800 lbs
3084 kg
Lift to full height (at pin)3,300 lbs
1496 kg


Ford 540 (59hp)
Height (to pin)127 inches
322 cm
Clearance, dumped bucket101 inches
256 cm
Dump reach24 inches
60 cm
Dump angle45°
Rollback at ground22°
Rollback at carry30°
Rollback, raised100°
Breakout force (lift)4065 lbs
1843 kg
Lift to full height (at pin)2500 lbs
1134 kg


Other items.  The production times are 1979-1981 and 1979-1983 - so comparable aged tractors.  Both appear clean (in the ads) and well cared for.  The

The 540 has a 2 post ROPS and PTO, listed at $6,200 - has a Gannon box (dented) for extra cost? No extra rear hydraulics but does have hydraulic tilt/trim on the 3pt.  Has 5 other tractors. An hour away.

The 445 does not have ROPS installed, no PTO, comes with a Gannon box - hydraulic tilt and trim, listed at $6,800.  Has a compact tractor that he uses much more often.  20 minutes away.

So it gets down to (in my mind), the 445 has the tilt/trim on the box with more loader lift but lower HP.  I could (would) ad ROPS.  The geometry of the loader/bucket seems better for carrying material.  It's just the price on these has be set back a bit.  I paid $8,000 for my SkyTrac (well used and abused).  Do these prices seem fair?  Are they Pandemic pricing?  Anyone with experience owning either with words of wisdom/caution?

Thanks!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

stavebuyer

Loader tractors that can handle a round bale stay in demand. As a loader the 445 is much improved over the 540; the lack of PTO on the 445 you found would be a deal breaker for me. I would keep hunting for a 545 class(5k lift) with a PTO even if I had to pay double.
 

Ljohnsaw

The price on the 445 just dropped to $6,500.  Its been listed for a couple of weeks now.  If it was $4k, I'd get it in a heart beat...  I just hate spending (my) money. ;)

Right now, I don't see the lack of PTO a big issue.  I have too many rocks to use a post hole auger and NO flat fields to use a bush hog.  The only think I can think of it to use it for a rear-mounted snow blower.  Is there such a thing as a PTO driven winch for a 3pt?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

newoodguy78

Are they 4wd or 2wd?
What transmissions? Not sure on the 540 but the 445a we have here came with a power reversing 4 speed tranny or the typical ford 8 speed forward 2 reverse manual.
If it's the power reverse make sure all the gears work forward and reverse under load when it gets warm.
Rebuilt the forward reverse clutch pack last winter wasn't terrible to do but an expense just the same.
Ours doesn't have a pto just the 3ph.
Motor wise power is not a problem light in the rearend but weight fixes that.
All in all a great little tractor for our operation.
One thing to make sure of is the battery cables are sheathed real well if you get it. The battery sits in a swing out tray on top of the engine with the cables going off towards the back and down, they're known for chaffing through and causing all sorts of excitement.

Patrick NC

If you don't need a pto the 445 is the best of the 2. Being 2wd could be a problem if your land is steep or wet. A good set of tire chains would help that. Around here that would be a steal. Most anything with a loader starts at $8000 +. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

chevytaHOE5674

Both are good machines if taken care of. Having said that they are old machines and being industrial loaders they were bought to be used. So condition condition condition....

Lacking a PTO is a huge negative as you never know what you may want to run (chipper, winch, snowblower, stump grinder, etc, the list is nearly endless). It also hurts future resale as most everybody wants a PTO.

Andries

My Ford is a 545D with a Perkins 67hp diesel. I've been super happy with mine for the past dozen years. 
For what you're needing on your 10 acres (road building, gravel pad and hauling logs) the yellow Fords are perfect. They don't have the ground  clearance of an agriculture machine, but they can't be beat for construction.
A Gannon box is needed for the gravel and road building. The fel and bucket is good but the box blade is really, really good. Scarifers or frost hooks on the box will be a big plus to open up the topsoil when road building. 
A rear pto is needed for a logging winch, which will enable you to keep your mill supplied with logs. Good advice on the battery cables, previous. Five thousand lbs fel lift and wheel weights on the rears will lift most everything you want. You're used to the zoomboom, so your expectations will be higher than most. 😆Out your way these machines seem to be called skipjacks and there's a steady list of them with the usual suspects. In the $10 to $14 k. range. 
This guy is guessing  that you'll be using the machine a lot. Stavebuyer is giving you good advice. If you can persuade yourself to spend a bit more, I think you won't regret it.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Ljohnsaw

Not in huge hurry to buy.  I could get some dirt work done between now and Halloween (usually snow by then) but spring is when I'll really be needing it.  As far as selection of industrial tractors - these two are IT for the last month or two.  There were a couple MFs out there but, older, smaller, and the same or more money!?!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

barbender

I spent many, many hours on a New Holland 545 (if I remember the number right). We used it for a grading machine on a driveway paving prep crew. It had a belly blade. Even with a 55 gallon drum filled with concrete on the back for counterweight, and wheel weights, the front end loader on that thing would pick up more than it even should've. It had a good sized front bucket, when you'd get a good full scoop of gravel with it the front tires were really bulging😮 It was a really solid, reliable machine that was really easy on fuel. It was a three cylinder Ford diesel iirc. The only trouble I ever remember having with it was the hydraulic hose for the front steering would rub on the frame and blow once in a while.
Too many irons in the fire

hedgerow

Don't get my wrong I like the old fords but it seems like its getting harder to get parts if you have to open it up to do some repairs. Had a friend that had a ford back hoe tractor and sold it because of parts. I wouldn't buy a tractor without a PTO if nothing else for resale value. 

Ljohnsaw

John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

GRANITEstateMP

new holland 445d fan here! 345 and 545d are also great, just don't have one!  We're on our 3rd? on the farm. Cleans the barn, pushes feed, loads feed wagon...every day, twice a day. They just work and work and work. Hour meter quit many 1k's of hours ago. If you can, find a D series, with 3pt and pto. They are easy on and off too
Hakki Pilke 1x37
Kubota M6040
Load Trail 12ft Dump Trailer
2015 GMC 3500HD SRW
2016 Polaris 450HO
2016 Polaris 570
SureTrac 12ft Dump Trailer

Ljohnsaw

The 445 sold as well.

But...  About 90 minutes north of me there is a 545 with the 4 speed, shuttle reverser.  Listed for about a month.  The only problem with those is there is no PTO and no way to add one after market.  Physically impossible the way the tranny is built.  To me, a PTO is not a show stopper.  Has the loader (real straight bucket) and Gannon box with a couple new rippers.  All hydraulic.

Where I do odd jobs on occasion, there is an older neighbor (80), that just happened to be out chainsawing and tractoring - with his Ford 445.  So we got to talking.  His opinion is a tractor of these vintages, a diesel with 10,000 hours is used up in need of a rebuild.  He wouldn't buy anything with more than 5k hours.  Maybe he is opinionated, but I tend to respect my elders.

Talking with the 545 owner, he has had the tractor about 8 years, replaced a few hoses as they go, one bucket ram is leaking a little.  The gauges were near impossible to read (faded?) so he swapped them out.  He said the old gauge was about 5,400 - the new one is pretty much zero.  Though, he does not understand how the hour meter works.  He said it has a speedo-like cable from the tac going to it.  I'm wondering if it works since he replaced it (not sure when he did that).

He listed the 545 at $8,500 but I said that was a bit high for the hours.  I suggested $6k.  He said he bought it for that and put all new rubber, foamed the back tires (he does demo work) and has painted it a couple times.  This last time he pressure washed it to put it up for sale and decided he might as well shoot a new coat on it. 

He has wheel weights that he removed (inside and outside) because the foam fill (he says) adds about 1,000 lbs to each tire - really?  The rears look to have about 50% tread left, fronts look like new.  How many hours does it take to wear the tires that much?  He was willing (over the phone) to come down to $7,500.  I get he wants to make his money back and wants to make a profit.  But tires are consumables.  If he put a lot of hours on it (to wear the tires to 50%-or less), then it would be worth less than what you paid, right? (depending on the market demand...)  While foam filled tires are great (less down time), I'm thinking I'll be spending extra at the tire shop when it comes time to replace them.

If I decide to take a drive and go see it, what can I do to tell if this unit has 5k hours or 10k, keeping in mind it just had a Rustoleum rebuild.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

thecfarm

Pedal wear, step wear. Might even being able to feel the floor where your heel would be as a worn spot?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ljohnsaw

Ah, good point.  Yeah, my Tundra is at 200k and there is a hole through the floor mat into the carpet where my heel sits...
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

newoodguy78

Does the tachometer itself work? The hour meter is mechanical and drives off the tach within the cluster I believe. I recently changed the cluster in one of our fords , tach wasn't working. Figured out the cable was broken. Easy swap, the driven end attaches down on side of the block below oil filter.
I did read the aftermarket clusters (like the one I installed) are noted for not working for very long. 250 hours in and still ticking so far.

Don't know what conditions you're running in but my experience with foam filled tires is they are terrible in dirt especially mud . They don't flex at all. I'd take take air in the tires and wheel weights any day for what I do.

You'll definitely want weight on the back, great little utility tractors but light in the rear. I've crab walked ours around more than I probably should. No liquid in the tires but two weights each side. Any amount of continuous heavy lifting and the 55 gallon concrete sinker goes on the back. It's easier on the machine with it.

newoodguy78

 

 

 The rusty one is on our parts 445a had about 4000 hrs when it burned, the shiny one is the 445a we're currently using has a guesstimated 10-12k hrs . Notice the difference of the holes as noted by cfarm. 
Bought the two of them in a package deal. Previous owner bought the one we're using sight unseen to replace the one he had. Not knowing it didn't have a pto. Worked out well for us ;D.
Our parts machine burned on him because the battery cable shorted out.

Ljohnsaw

Well, when it rains it pours...

A Ford 545 D just popped up on CL.  Asking $9,500.  They said they think it has 1,800-1,900 hours on the meter.  Said they had 2 miles of gravel road to maintain on 100 acres.  Now they only have 7 acres and too much tractor for that.  Looks pretty sweet from the pictures.  Trying to go look at it tomorrow armed with my new-found knowledge of where to look for wear. ;)
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Andries

That sounds like a really good price for that machine.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Andries on October 05, 2021, 11:01:25 AM
That sounds like a really good price for that machine.
Yeah, when it's not your money! ;) :D  Heading down to meet the owner at 1 pm.  The only thing this one is missing is 4wd but I'll make do with chains.  And I'll need to arrange transport - about 150 miles.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Magicman

But chains won't help much when the FEL takes the weight off of the rear tires.  A FEL equipped non-4wd is sorta handicapped.  :-X
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

newoodguy78

I second what magicman says those little fords are good tractors but lighter in the rear in my opinion. You'll want a good amount of weight in the back to get those chains touching the ground with a full bucket of material.

Ljohnsaw

OK, I did it.  Bit the bullet... Pulled the trigger... (well, not both).  Here are a couple shots of the tractor:


 

 Sooo, the guy bought it at auction about 3 months ago to grade his 2 mile gravel driveway figuring he could sell it when he's done and come out even.  I asked what a couple levers were for and all I got was "I donno..."  I figured out a few.  It does have a PTO you can see, and it works.  The chains are way out of adjustment to keep the box aligned.

It appears to be a 4 speed with hi/low.  On the dash is a forward/reverse lever so some sort of automatic?  An unknown peddle on the left side next to the transmission turns out to be a reverser peddle - very handy.  Has dual brake peddles on the right but you have to stand on them to get it to stop.  Hoping just out of adjustment.  On the dash is the usual throttle but also a throttle peddle on the extreme right side.  There is a big stick on the right for lift and tilt on the bucket.  Four sticks under the seat control the Gannon - two for angle, one for tilt and one for rippers.  Then the usual two levers for the 3pt.  One for raise lower and the other for draft.  What does draft do?  Also a diff lock peddle.

There are a couple other levers/peddles that I've no clue, but...  One may be for the 4wd!  He wasn't aware it was 4wd and I blew any hope of bargaining down on the price at that point. :( :-X  I don't think the hour meter is working as the tac needle just sort of vibrates way off the scale (like 180° out).  The steps have rubber (torn but not worn) so no clues there.  The brake peddles have the punched holes.  One or two of the holes on the extreme left side of the right peddle is worn down - a very small area.  So I'm guessing 2-3K hours?  Everything else is fairly pristine looking.  They just rebuilt one cylinder on the Gannon box and just got the kit in for the other on that is seeping.

Wheels are not loaded (just air) but they have weights on the inside and outside.  He said the tractor weighed in at 10k pounds so this ain't no little Ford.  He moved it on his 10k trailer with his 1/2 ton on fairly level terrain but he would never do that again!

I texted 3 haulers and got 2 quotes back of $650 and $825 to haul a guesstimate 150 miles (actually 100) with an elevation climb of 5,800' in the last 15 miles or so.  So I texted my daughter and asked if her boss (feed store owner) would be willing to haul and for how much.  He's willing to let me borrow his 1T truck and 30k goose-neck equipment trailer.  So I will owe him a full tank of diesel and a couple hundred more.

In case you didn't follow along, I paid $9,500 for it.  At online auctions, they seem to go between $15 and $25k.  If the weather holds off, I will probably pick it up on Friday or Sunday.

This will make my dirt work so much easier than trying to use my SkyTrak!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Magicman

Sir, I believe that you knocked the 'proverbial' ball out of the park.  8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Andries

Way to go John!
Gannon box, pto, top 'n tilt on the 3point, AND four wheel drive, all for a bargain price. Nicely done.
Some pointers:
The four wheel drive handle stands up from the floor, just below the 3pt. handles. Up is engaged. 
The forward/reverse lever to the left of the steering wheel has a button on the end of it. That's the torque converter lockout button. Engage that when on a road (high range and 4) and you want an extra boost of speed, or when you're brush hogging and have found a suitable transmission setting, hit the lockout button to reduce heat buildup in the torque converter/tranny. 
Dipsticks for hyd oil: one in front of the radiator on the fel reservoir cap. Second is under the floor mat just to the left of the range selector. Third is on the diff. left of top centre. All the oils are the same, in fel, power steering pump, tranny and diff. Only the diesel motor oil is different - your usual crankcase oil.
The brakes are wet disc in the trumpets coming off the diff pumpkin. If you're in high and one - four, the brakes will respond. If you're in low, motor torque will over power the brakes.
Parts for most everything are available from Messicks.

LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

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