Should buy this LT15 Go?

[king-o-ping]

Hi all,

New to the forum and just getting into milling lumber. Have been looking at mills, specifically WoodMizers, for a while now.

Came across a used 2018 LT15 with the trailer an hour drive from me. All manual controls with the standard 19hp Kohler. Guy claims he bought it new 2 years ago (2020), but the Vin sticker clearly states 2018. He also claims he ran 5 logs through it then never used it again. That is apparent after going to look at it. It has sat in the weather (south coastal US) and deteriorated from lack of use. I got the engine to fire on starting fluid, besides freshening of the fuel system it looks good to go. But the rust has crept up on it. The 2 log clamps are rusted frozen and the slide for one of them is bent. He is asking $9000 firm for it and would not even let me make an offer. He claims he has someone looking at it once a week, but its been for sale for 2 months now...

He claims his asking price is what he owes on it. I think its worth a little less than that due to the repairs and preventative maintenance its gonna need to keep it running. But I really don't know the how to value a machine like this. I've attached some pictures that highlight the worst of the rust issues. Every anchor bolt mounting had rust and the slide rail on the loading side will need addressing. All the machine's movements work fine just need some lube. I'm pretty mechanically inclined so I can get this machine in tip-top shape in a couple weekends, thats not what I'm worried about.

I am posting to ask, should I turn and run, or try and make a deal? And if the answer is make a deal, what, in your opinions, is this machine worth? Is it worth the $9000?
I'm considering the fact its the only used mill in a 1000 mile radius, and the same machine brand new is almost double the price and has a 53 week lead-time. I know what I'm getting into as far as the labor involved to run this machine and work with logs, but if there are way better bang-for-your-buck Woodmizer options or other options that dont have a ONE YEAR lead time, please educate me.

Thanks




 

 

 

 

 

 

[WV Sawmiller]

IMHO - run!

[fluidpowerpro]

Something seems fishy about his story about buying it new 2 yrs ago but the vin says it's 4 yrs old. Make sure it's not stolen. If he did but it new maybe Woodmizer can tell you if he is the original owner.

[rusticretreater]

The guy must not know what he is doing if he bent the slide like that in his first 5 logs.  I also think that is quite a bit of rust for being new 2 years ago.  But you did say it was a coastal area.

Red Flags.

I agree with fluidpowerpro about checking up on it. Did you take a picture of the vin number?  You could simply google that or check around. There are a number of listings online about stolen sawmills and their vin #s are posted.  Ask if he has any paperwork on it and where he purchased it.  If he bought it new it would have come from either TX, Miss, GA or NC Woodmizer depending on the area.  If he can't come up with that info, definitely run.  

The sawmill looks like its is still in good enough condition that it still has value. Given current conditions, $9k isn't outrageous. $8k would be better. 

[Stevenjohn21]

I agree with checking the vin# and calling woodmizer. 
If your gut instinct is telling you no then I'd say no. We often try to sell a bad deal to ourselves because we really want something but then get disappointed. 
Just be patient and another one will come along. 

[Gere Flewelling]

If you can confirm that it is not stolen, I would jump on it.  You can easily fix what is wrong with it.  You can't easily find a better one available in your area and will have to wait a year to get a more expensive one just like it.  It doesn't look like it will need a lot of parts to repair, just some time spent by you tinkering on it.  Clean up the rust and touch up the paint and sell it for more than you paid if you desire something nicer.  These mills are a hot item these last few years.  It wouldn't be for sale long up here where I come from.  Good Luck!

[Old Greenhorn]

I wouldn't go too crazy over the date disparity, there can be lots of reasons for this. Remember, that is a pre-covid mill. Made back in the days when they weren't backordered but some could sit around waiting for sale at dealers for a while, they might get used as dealer demos, etc. 
 The LT50 I run has a 2017 build date, but was bought "new" in later 2018 right off the show floor at Boonville. They had run it around using it for demos for about a year and offered a good deal as a show model. So there are legit reasons. A call to WM will clear that and other things up.

 As far as the condition goes, your verbal description makes it sound a whole lot worse than the photos show. Yes, there is some rust and it certainly appears this guy is somewhat of a machine butcher. 5 logs sounds like he never really learned how to use the machine, especially seeing some signs of mis-treatment. He probably found it too much work and it didn't make him rich fast enough. The price seems OK to me given the current market and availability of these things. The new cost is about $13k. Are there any other add-on's besides the trailer like a power feed?

 What he still 'owes' on it (which means their may be a bank lien, check that out) is not really your problem, it's his. If he were concerned about his investment, he would have done the simple things needed to keep it in good shape. I would check out the ownership records, make sure there is no lien or other outstanding paper and then leave your best offer with him. Those 'guys who are looking at it hard' can be a myth. Last year I was going to buy a larger trailer from a fella. We made a deal and I called him a day later to come hand him the cash. He said he had a better offer for $1500 more but would still sell it to me for 'just' $1000 more. I walked away. That trailer is still sitting where it was the day I walked away, 14 months later.

 Good luck, let us know how you make out.

[Southside]

The skid steer forks are a giveaway as to what happened to the clamp bar.  That's what - $20 worth of pipe and two holes?  The rust is nothing, left some sawdust where the bolt is and the throttle linkage all look like that.  The carb might have some ethanol issues from the sounds of it.  When I started to have problems with the carb on my edger - 25 hp Kohler - I bought an OEM seal kit for $8 and an after market carb for +/- $100 in case the kit didn't fix the issue.  Removed the factory carb, tossed on the aftermarket on so we could get back to work and rebuilt the factory carb a couple of weeks later, that was a year and a half or more ago.  Still have not put the factory carb back on.  

Condition would not scare me at all, sandpaper, penetrating oil, grease, a rattle can of Polish Orange (yes, that's the name of the factory color), a piece of pipe and possibly deal with the carb.  What is it worth?  What are you willing to pay for it is the answer.  

Like OG said, sometimes folks really don't want to sell something that is for sale.  I made an offer on a ranch once and the seller was so mad he would not sign and return the rejection paperwork - he wasn't a rancher rather a real-estate investor from about 500 miles away that got caught up in all the hype of becoming a millionaire by flipping farmland.  Happened to look a year later and the same place was for sale - at the asking price I had offered.  

[K-Guy]

a real-estate investor from about 500 miles away that got caught up in all the hype of becoming a millionaire by flipping farmland.

Because we all know that you can get rich quick in farming. It's a lifestyle job, not a quick rich one.

[king-o-ping]

Kind of replying to all here..

Thanks for your inputs. Its all valued and appreciated.

Something seems fishy about his story about buying it new 2 yrs ago but the vin says it's 4 yrs old. Make sure it's not stolen. If he did but it new maybe Woodmizer can tell you if he is the original owner.

Yeah I am going to do some digging on the VIN which I do have, and ask him about paperwork if I proceed.

For now I'm gonna let it sit and see if he reluctantly calls me asking what I would offer. As far as fishiness, he was pretty trustworthy over the phone, and he let me go to his house without him there and do whatever I wanted to it. It wasn't even locked to anything. I believe him when he said he bought it new.

[king-o-ping]

The guy must not know what he is doing if he bent the slide like that in his first 5 logs.  I also think that is quite a bit of rust for being new 2 years ago.  But you did say it was a coastal area.

Red Flags.

I agree with fluidpowerpro about checking up on it. Did you take a picture of the vin number?  You could simply google that or check around. There are a number of listings online about stolen sawmills and their vin #s are posted.  Ask if he has any paperwork on it and where he purchased it.  If he bought it new it would have come from either TX, Miss, GA or NC Woodmizer depending on the area.  If he can't come up with that info, definitely run.  

The sawmill looks like its is still in good enough condition that it still has value. Given current conditions, $9k isn't outrageous. $8k would be better.

Agreed on the red flags... like I replied already I'll be researching the VIN and calling my local dealer.

I was going to offer $7500, mainly because what he promised and asked $9000 for wasn't what he had. But I still feel like it may be a decent deal at $9000. Just proceeding cautiously at this point. I for sure don't want to get screwed.

[king-o-ping]

I wouldn't go too crazy over the date disparity, there can be lots of reasons for this. Remember, that is a pre-covid mill. Made back in the days when they weren't backordered but some could sit around waiting for sale at dealers for a while, they might get used as dealer demos, etc.
The LT50 I run has a 2017 build date, but was bought "new" in later 2018 right off the show floor at Boonville. They had run it around using it for demos for about a year and offered a good deal as a show model. So there are legit reasons. A call to WM will clear that and other things up.

As far as the condition goes, your verbal description makes it sound a whole lot worse than the photos show. Yes, there is some rust and it certainly appears this guy is somewhat of a machine butcher. 5 logs sounds like he never really learned how to use the machine, especially seeing some signs of mis-treatment. He probably found it too much work and it didn't make him rich fast enough. The price seems OK to me given the current market and availability of these things. The new cost is about $13k. Are there any other add-on's besides the trailer like a power feed?

What he still 'owes' on it (which means their may be a bank lien, check that out) is not really your problem, it's his. If he were concerned about his investment, he would have done the simple things needed to keep it in good shape. I would check out the ownership records, make sure there is no lien or other outstanding paper and then leave your best offer with him. Those 'guys who are looking at it hard' can be a myth. Last year I was going to buy a larger trailer from a fella. We made a deal and I called him a day later to come hand him the cash. He said he had a better offer for $1500 more but would still sell it to me for 'just' $1000 more. I walked away. That trailer is still sitting where it was the day I walked away, 14 months later.

Good luck, let us know how you make out.

"this guy is somewhat of a machine butcher. 5 logs sounds like he never really learned how to use the machine, especially seeing some signs of mis-treatment"

EXACTLY. His selling description was "too much work and no AC".  He runs a tree clearing business and I think he was looking for a quick buck off some nice logs he cut down. Looking at the log beds, it really doesnt look used. Not a lot of sawdust caked in the blade guards either. However the disarray of his yard said a lot about him...

"Those 'guys who are looking at it hard' can be a myth" - yeah I sniffed out that bs the moment he said it. Its been for sale for 2 months now.


"The price seems OK to me given the current market and availability of these things. The new cost is about $13k. Are there any other add-on's besides the trailer like a power feed?"

Yep. $13,589 without shipping. I can pick it up at the dealer. No add-ons beside the trailer. No power feed, stock engine, no ramps, no tools. Barebones model. I think he bought it off the dealer's stock. I'll be tracking that down. What I see is a used machine needing a few hundred buck and a couple weekends of work, with 0 weeks lead time, for $4500 off. I feel like that isn't a super deal, but given the market like you said, I feel its ok. I would really like to wait him out and see if he'll take ~8000.

The only thing preventing this machine from running right now is old fuel/hoses, cracked (disintegrated) water tank, and frozen log clamps. Other than that its dirty and needs some maintenance and lube, but the machine certainly isnt worn out or broken.

If this machine becomes mine, I will certainly be back here to share and to start learning! Excited to get into milling, just not sure how it'll be yet. Appreciate the input.

[king-o-ping]

The skid steer forks are a giveaway as to what happened to the clamp bar.  That's what - $20 worth of pipe and two holes?  The rust is nothing, left some sawdust where the bolt is and the throttle linkage all look like that.  The carb might have some ethanol issues from the sounds of it.  When I started to have problems with the carb on my edger - 25 hp Kohler - I bought an OEM seal kit for $8 and an after market carb for +/- $100 in case the kit didn't fix the issue.  Removed the factory carb, tossed on the aftermarket on so we could get back to work and rebuilt the factory carb a couple of weeks later, that was a year and a half or more ago.  Still have not put the factory carb back on.  

Condition would not scare me at all, sandpaper, penetrating oil, grease, a rattle can of Polish Orange (yes, that's the name of the factory color), a piece of pipe and possibly deal with the carb.  What is it worth?  What are you willing to pay for it is the answer.  

Like OG said, sometimes folks really don't want to sell something that is for sale.  I made an offer on a ranch once and the seller was so mad he would not sign and return the rejection paperwork - he wasn't a rancher rather a real-estate investor from about 500 miles away that got caught up in all the hype of becoming a millionaire by flipping farmland.  Happened to look a year later and the same place was for sale - at the asking price I had offered.  

" $20 worth of pipe and two holes?"

My thoughts too, probably have some scrap pipe that would work, but its a bargaining point.

"Condition would not scare me at all, sandpaper, penetrating oil, grease, a rattle can of Polish Orange (yes, that's the name of the factory color), a piece of pipe and possibly deal with the carb.  What is it worth?  What are you willing to pay for it is the answer."

yeah, me neither. With some elbow grease and a pressure washer I can have it looking almost brand new. Its just the signs of neglect the point to 'what else is wrong?'

I'm willing to pay whats its worth plus a little more since its available a year sooner than a new one. I just didn't have a good idea of what the number is. All these replies are helping me figure that out though, so I appreciate it.

[mudfarmer]

There are some bearings that may be of concern given the rust issues. Did you run the head up and down? Does it roll freely along the track by hand or with the feed crank? How did it look under the covers, drive/idle side wheel, drive belt tensioner etc? How do the trailer tires look? Just some more bargaining chips.

If that all checks out along with what has already been discussed, the price is probably right enough for someone that wants one given current supply issues

[Satamax]

The skid steer forks are a giveaway as to what happened to the clamp bar.  That's what - $20 worth of pipe and two holes?  The rust is nothing, left some sawdust where the bolt is and the throttle linkage all look like that.  The carb might have some ethanol issues from the sounds of it.  When I started to have problems with the carb on my edger - 25 hp Kohler - I bought an OEM seal kit for $8 and an after market carb for +/- $100 in case the kit didn't fix the issue.  Removed the factory carb, tossed on the aftermarket on so we could get back to work and rebuilt the factory carb a couple of weeks later, that was a year and a half or more ago.  Still have not put the factory carb back on.  

Condition would not scare me at all, sandpaper, penetrating oil, grease, a rattle can of Polish Orange (yes, that's the name of the factory color), a piece of pipe and possibly deal with the carb.  What is it worth?  What are you willing to pay for it is the answer.  

Like OG said, sometimes folks really don't want to sell something that is for sale.  I made an offer on a ranch once and the seller was so mad he would not sign and return the rejection paperwork - he wasn't a rancher rather a real-estate investor from about 500 miles away that got caught up in all the hype of becoming a millionaire by flipping farmland.  Happened to look a year later and the same place was for sale - at the asking price I had offered.  

" $20 worth of pipe and two holes?"

My thoughts too, probably have some scrap pipe that would work, but its a bargaining point.

"Condition would not scare me at all, sandpaper, penetrating oil, grease, a rattle can of Polish Orange (yes, that's the name of the factory color), a piece of pipe and possibly deal with the carb.  What is it worth?  What are you willing to pay for it is the answer."

yeah, me neither. With some elbow grease and a pressure washer I can have it looking almost brand new. Its just the signs of neglect the point to 'what else is wrong?'

I'm willing to pay whats its worth plus a little more since its available a year sooner than a new one. I just didn't have a good idea of what the number is. All these replies are helping me figure that out though, so I appreciate it.

Well, why don't you play it dumb?
You call him, and say the wife has told you, you can have 6500. And not a penny more.  And see how he reacts. But be sure to whinge and blame it on the wife! :D

[jpassardi]

My LT15 sat outside for about 8 years before I bought it so I've been down a similar road. I got it for a very fair price.
The carriage lift assist where the struts are in was frozen and so was the clutch lever so check both for movement.
They're well built so I'd verify the VIN is clean and if you had to go $9K you'd probably get it back if you wanted to sell it down the road.
Woodmizer treats us fair on parts so that's not an issue.

[king-o-ping]

There are some bearings that may be of concern given the rust issues. Did you run the head up and down? Does it roll freely along the track by hand or with the feed crank? How did it look under the covers, drive/idle side wheel, drive belt tensioner etc? How do the trailer tires look? Just some more bargaining chips.

If that all checks out along with what has already been discussed, the price is probably right enough for someone that wants one given current supply issues

Yes! I ran the head up and down, and rolled it on the track a few times. It ran great, besides the rope for the crank feed being routed incorrectly. Nothing beside the frozen clamps and bent clamp rod would prevent the machine from making great cuts. Even the tires looked OK for 4 years old...

[king-o-ping]

The skid steer forks are a giveaway as to what happened to the clamp bar.  That's what - $20 worth of pipe and two holes?  The rust is nothing, left some sawdust where the bolt is and the throttle linkage all look like that.  The carb might have some ethanol issues from the sounds of it.  When I started to have problems with the carb on my edger - 25 hp Kohler - I bought an OEM seal kit for $8 and an after market carb for +/- $100 in case the kit didn't fix the issue.  Removed the factory carb, tossed on the aftermarket on so we could get back to work and rebuilt the factory carb a couple of weeks later, that was a year and a half or more ago.  Still have not put the factory carb back on.  

Condition would not scare me at all, sandpaper, penetrating oil, grease, a rattle can of Polish Orange (yes, that's the name of the factory color), a piece of pipe and possibly deal with the carb.  What is it worth?  What are you willing to pay for it is the answer.  

Like OG said, sometimes folks really don't want to sell something that is for sale.  I made an offer on a ranch once and the seller was so mad he would not sign and return the rejection paperwork - he wasn't a rancher rather a real-estate investor from about 500 miles away that got caught up in all the hype of becoming a millionaire by flipping farmland.  Happened to look a year later and the same place was for sale - at the asking price I had offered.  

" $20 worth of pipe and two holes?"

My thoughts too, probably have some scrap pipe that would work, but its a bargaining point.

"Condition would not scare me at all, sandpaper, penetrating oil, grease, a rattle can of Polish Orange (yes, that's the name of the factory color), a piece of pipe and possibly deal with the carb.  What is it worth?  What are you willing to pay for it is the answer."

yeah, me neither. With some elbow grease and a pressure washer I can have it looking almost brand new. Its just the signs of neglect the point to 'what else is wrong?'

I'm willing to pay whats its worth plus a little more since its available a year sooner than a new one. I just didn't have a good idea of what the number is. All these replies are helping me figure that out though, so I appreciate it.

Well, why don't you play it dumb?
You call him, and say the wife has told you, you can have 6500. And not a penny more.  And see how he reacts. But be sure to whinge and blame it on the wife! :D

Have had that thought cross my mind. I plan to let him sit for a couple of weeks and think about our interaction. Once I contact him again after he's had it for sale for another 3 weeks with "a guy a week looking at it" but no takers, he may be more willing to negotiate. 

[Redhorseshoe]

I sold my LT15 GO about a year ago for $13,000.  It was only about 1 1/2 years old with several hundred hours of use but was in excellent shape.  I think $9,000 is probably not too bad of a deal as long as you're confident in your own abilities to get 'er going again.  Small engines are pretty simple to work on and quick wire wheel will take care of that rust.  I had bent one of the clamp pipes on my lt15 somehow too and it continued to work fine, but as others have said, a chunk of pipe and about 10 minutes will take care of that.

[king-o-ping]

Well to those that requested my final decision, I bought a Woodland Mills HM130Max Woodlander XL.

I paid the same price for a brand new mill, with the log loading ramps, to Woodland that I would have to Mr. Sketch with his 2-4 year old stolen (maybe) mill.

I just didn't feel like messing with that guy or having to turn around and fix my new-to-me machine that I just dropped several grand on. Plus, the Hm130 looked like a really well built machine. I liked the way they designed everything, and it also looks very simple so I can fix anything on it over the years easier than the LT15.

Aside from the smaller engine, the Hm130 can cut a bigger log. Plus, I figured the resale value on a newer 1-owner machine would be better than the Lt15, should I decide I want a Woodmizer instead. But, I think the Woodland Mill will be awesome at least for now.

If anyone is interested in the LT15, let me know. He took the ad down because he "might want to keep it until next season, dont know yet". Have fun with that. I look forward to asking more questions and learning about milling. Thanks to all for the input.

[SawyerTed]

I believe you made the right call,