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Grinder vs. file

Started by LeeB, May 05, 2008, 01:48:31 AM

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barbender

Use a stump vice or some other method for holding the bar firm, and it works great.
Too many irons in the fire

axeman2021

Quote from: barbender on March 21, 2021, 02:33:40 PM
Use a stump vice or some other method for holding the bar firm, and it works great.
At first i used my vice but after sticking my stump vice into a board, i am now using it on my small bench, it gives me all the support i need and is simple to pick it up installed on bar and turn it around for sharping the other side of the chain.

Greenhighlander

I have always been really bad for filing down one side more then the other . I have tried everything I could think of to even it out by hand but for whatever reason I couldn't fix it.  That never really mattered doing trail cutting and firewood but I figured it did with milling so I bought one of these and have been really really happy with not only the job it does but how fast it is once I got use to using it. 



 

axeman2021

Quote from: Greenhighlander on March 21, 2021, 04:11:52 PM
I have always been really bad for filing down one side more then the other . I have tried everything I could think of to even it out by hand but for whatever reason I couldn't fix it.  That never really mattered doing trail cutting and firewood but I figured it did with milling so I bought one of these and have been really really happy with not only the job it does but how fast it is once I got use to using it.




Could you tell me just what it is.

sablatnic

File for me, a file doesn't make much noise doesn't blow dust over everything in the shed, and I can relax with just my saw and my file.
And the chain gets way sharper than any grinder I've tested - and I can use all of every cutter.

And I enjoy filing.



 

Skeans1

Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on March 21, 2021, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 09:53:21 AM
Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.

I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.

So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.
Remember a Simington or a Silvey are normally for square chisel chain that's different grinder completely from a round chisel chain grinder.
Thank you for the information i should have used maybe the Oregon 410 at around $190 dollars, still it's money spent for a sharping system more then a simple hand filing of our chains.
I am open to looking at other ways to sharpen my chains, i have seen this Timberline sharping jig selling for around $110 dollars still a lot more then what i have in my 2&1 sharpner that has worked pretty well so far but i am guessing not as well as a real shop sharping or using the Oregon sharpner.
This is the really good thing about this forum, lots of people who have used many different sharping systems letting us know what they have found good and bad about them.
What sort of cutters are on your chains? This will be the biggest factor in what kind of grinder you're looking into. Another factor is how many chains you're doing and what sort of quality you want from the grind.
Myself I have a Silvey Pro Sharp, a Tecomec Super Jolly, an Oregon 511A, and a Silvey 500. Each of these grinders fit a purpose for different tasks I'm also very picky on my chains.

axeman2021

After doing a search for the Timberline Carbide Sharping system. the lowest price found is at ACME Tool at $109.99, but what ACME does not tell buyers is they have to buy the size carbide cutter needed at $20 each it's not included.

Reading their reviews many buyers at ACME find this out only after their Timberline machine arrives and they find out they don't get a cutter, then they have to order one and pay the $20 and the shipping, not what i call honest dealing.

If you buy from Timbersharpner.com direct they include one carbide cutter at their $124.95 price.

Another item to keep in mind is with Stihls large 3/8 Pitch Chains, they differ from the industery standard in file sizing needed, they require a 13/64 file so you will need a 13/64 Cutter from Timberline.

gspren

My opinion only, the person doing the sharpening determines the quality. A good guy with a file will get a sharper chain than an average guy on a grinder while a good guy on the grinder will do better than the average guy with a file, I like and use a file.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Greenhighlander

Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Greenhighlander on March 21, 2021, 04:11:52 PM
I have always been really bad for filing down one side more then the other . I have tried everything I could think of to even it out by hand but for whatever reason I couldn't fix it.  That never really mattered doing trail cutting and firewood but I figured it did with milling so I bought one of these and have been really really happy with not only the job it does but how fast it is once I got use to using it.




Could you tell me just what it is.
It is a Grandberg G-1012 XT precision grinder and it was worth every penny .

Tacotodd

Keep on hand filing. I started with gadgets, and now do all of my filing freehand. You WILL trash a few chains, but that educates you on what NOT to do.

As has been said before, file at every fuel stop. 2-3 quick and light strokes.
Trying harder everyday.

dougtrr2

I have a cheap version of the Grandberg G-1012 XT.  I went to an auto parts store and replaced the clamps with a cigarette lighter plug.  My tractor has a cigarette lighter socket that is much more accessible than the battery posts.

Doug in SW IA

hedgerow

Quote from: Corley5 on May 05, 2008, 11:20:51 PM
I've got CBN wheels on my grinder and don't plan to hand file again unless it's an absolute necessity  ;)  Good wheels are the key to a good sharpening job with a grinder.
I just don't care for hand filing. I bought a buddy a 2in1 about ten years ago for a house warming gift and he loves it and uses it all the time. I have a couple old 308 belsaw sharpener's with CBN wheels on them and that works great for me. When my FIL was still around that guy could free hand file like nobody. 

JJinAK

I just bought the Oregon 520, and so far I'm impressed.  I've been able to get pretty good at hand filing, but over the life of a chain I do tend to drift on one side, and end up out of balance.  The set up of the grinder was really easy.  I run mostly skip chains, full chisel.  I'm not brave enough to try square chains yet, but after watching how easy @Skeans made it look, I might try one just for grins.

MS461
MS362

Skeans1

@JJinAK 
Setting up square chains can take a while to train your eye for what you're looking for, if you do go this route don't be afraid to ask any questions.

Old saw fixer

     When I worked at Bradford's Saw Service, we ground chains on one of two machines.  One st up for chainsaws and one set up for harvester chain or bucksaw chain as we called it.  All I can say is William worked the bucksaw chain himself as it was deadly boring and dirty since it was lubed with waste oil.  The homeowner / firewood cutter's chains were always a mess, it seemed like they lost a lot of cutter length to even them up.  I much preferred a pile of loggers' saws to fix than chain sharpening...
     On my own chains I use an old Stihl FG 2, a jig I mount in the vise that uses a chain saw file.
Kind of slow, but so am I!  I would like a grinder, but I like I like nice things so that moves me up from entry level,to a Stihl USG or the like.  I like the round filed cutters personally.
Stihl FG 2, 036 Pro, 017, HT 132, MS 261 C-M, MSA 140 C-B, MS 462 C-M, MS 201 T C-M
Echo CS-2511T, CS-3510
Logrite Cant Hook (with log stand), and Hookaroon

John Mc

Quote from: gspren on March 21, 2021, 08:35:44 PM
My opinion only, the person doing the sharpening determines the quality. A good guy with a file will get a sharper chain than an average guy on a grinder while a good guy on the grinder will do better than the average guy with a file, I like and use a file.
They may be out there, but I have yet to find a "good guy with a grinder" who can get better results on round-ground/round-filed chain than a person with a bit of training and practice using a hand file with one of the better guides out there.
I have found guys with grinders who can do better than the average person with just a bare file, but then I've only met a few people who actually get consistently really good results with just a bare round file (i.e. can hand file time-after-time without having to take it back to the grinder every few sharpenings to "true things up", and can get consistently good results in terms of performance and durability.)
I'll grant that I am sure there are a number of you on here who I would add to the list of those getting consistently good results with a bare file if I had a chance to use some of your chains. My own results with just a bare round file are just what I would call "acceptable" - not great. I've not bothered to practice it much, and my eyesight is not what it used to be, so I stick with the guide.
I don't have much experience with square ground/filed chain. I like it for performance and durability, but I enjoy hand-filing, and figure I don't have much hope at getting good at hand filing square chain in the woods.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

421Altered

I have 2 Oregon grinders set up with the CBN wheels.  However I also hand file my personal chains in the woods or in my shop.  I take off the bare minimum when I grind a chain, so I get many sharpenings out of a chain.  My opinion is if you can hand file in the woods it saves time replacing  the chain.  I can do a touch up every tank in the woods and always have a very sharp chain that throws big chips, never sawdust.  But, if I replace chains and later grind them in my shop, I keep using a chain until it is throwing about half chips, and half sawdust.  I almost never hit the dirt with my chains and hardly ever find metal either, but, if I do, then it's to the grinder!!  I also sharpen chains for all of our volunteer's in our church chainsaw team.  All of those chains are sharpened on the grinder.  Too many to do by hand.  So to me both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.

John Mc

Quote from: 421Altered on May 23, 2021, 11:59:55 PMI also sharpen chains for all of our volunteer's in our church chainsaw team. All of those chains are sharpened on the grinder. Too many to do by hand. So to me both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.


Much as I prefer hand filing, if I had a pile of chains to do like that on anything approaching a regular basis, I'd use a grinder.

I enjoy the break that comes with hand filing while cutting in the woods. It's a time to enjoy some quiet, and time to take stock of how I am doing. However, sharpening multiple chains in a row is no longer a break, it's a job. Definitely calls for some automation.

BTW - great idea sharpening for your church's chainsaw team. I'm one of the coordinators of our town's "WoodBank" firewood donation program. For safety reasons, we tend to limit the number of folks who do our cutting, and most of those are well-versed in chain sharpening as well. We also tend to keep that separate from our splitting and stacking efforts, where we have a larger crowd from the general community. Maybe I'll arrange for some sharpening services at out next volunteer day.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

421Altered

I also enjoy taking a break from chainsawing in the woods.  Drink some water, cool down some, and a little rest doesn't hurt this old body!!  Thanks for volunteering your time and saws to cut up firewood for your town's "WoodBank" donation program.  That sounds like a good program.  Our church is active in wind storm damage cleanup, tornado's, hurricane's, straight line winds,  mostly within 100 miles, however sometimes we go further.  I've found that volunteer's are among the hardest workers you will find anywhere.  Sometimes they do things that I would not even consider doing.  When I first joined, after a tornado, they were cutting 18" diameter pine trees into 12" long cylinders, and rolling them about 150 feet to the right of way! Another time, cutting 24" diameter oak into 24" long pieces, putting them onto a hand truck and rolling them to the curb!  Man you talk about tough!!  Since then, we have a skid steer that does the work!!  We can do many more yards much quicker and easier now!!

John Mc

Sounds like a great group, 421Altered. Our storm response here is not any organized group, but we do have a large contingent of folks who just make the rounds and help people dig out where needed.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

421Altered

People helping other people is what it's all about!

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