What do you give up when you convert a dozer from steel tracks to rubber tracks?

LeeB · September 03, 2010, 12:42:46 AM

Not having read any of the other replies, I would guess a pocket full of cash would be the answer.

LOGDOG · September 03, 2010, 08:54:04 AM

Actually at this point it's more like a pocket minus its cash. :

When I got these pics from the John Deere guy I didn't know whether to smile or cry. It'll be expensive by the time were done. BUT, at least both machines will have been gone through thoroughly and had their issues sniffed out. I told the JD guy it's a shame to put the dozer back together without painting him first. Oh well, told my wife that I may make painting the dozer a "winter project" in the shop. Good time to do it when it's rainy and wet down here.

By the way for those coming in late on the thread we opted not to go with rubber tracks. That's why if you look close at the pics above you'll see the track pads have been freshly rebolted all the way around with really thick washers under some of them where there was some wallowing of the bolt holes. Plenty of good meat left on the cleats for now.

snowstorm · September 03, 2010, 04:45:59 PM

what did the jd guys say why the pistons in that pump were that bad?? i assume they checked the charge pump. seems like all the metal that was the pistons is now in the rams and oil cooler.

LOGDOG · September 03, 2010, 08:34:55 PM

Well Snowstorm, I guess we can't know "for certain" what happened with the pump. He said it could have been run low on fluid or it could have been run with a bunch of water in the fluid. Not sure what the last guy did. But you do raise a good point, where'd those metal fragments go? We'll follow up on that.

pineywoods · September 04, 2010, 09:53:30 AM

re hydraulic pump. Sorry about that logdog. That's why I prefer open circuit systems with gear pumps. I have one that's a chinese knockoff of a JD (it's on a small dozer). I can see problems coming And I ain't looking forward to the day when it finally quits. Maybe I ought to bite the bullet and do something before it gets any worse :

LOGDOG · September 04, 2010, 10:00:39 AM

Yep Piney that may be best. There's a place over here in Bossier City right on the edge of I-20 called G&H Pump. I've had him rebuild some cylinders and pumps in the past. Very reasonable compared to replacement. Had my machines been in town instead of down in Covington I probably would have had the pump pulled and taken it intact to G&H to see if he could rebuild it. On older dozers like the one I have the pumps get a bit hard to find. One company searched 500 of its connections in the USA and Canada and came up with 1 pump. Right now I'm debating about having them re-assemble my original pump. A rebuilder doesn't typically like to take them in pieces. But then I wonder, is it worth paying JD to put together a pump that's in that condition?

What model is your dozer? I think I've seen it in the background of some pics from a Southern Chapter meeting maybe?

pineywoods · September 04, 2010, 10:57:51 AM

Quote from: LOGDOG on September 04, 2010, 10:00:39 AM

What model is your dozer? I think I've seen it in the background of some pics from a Southern Chapter meeting maybe?

MY dozer is 100% gray market. No id plate, no model # markings. Painter on decal says "power trac 400. It appears to be the same machine that once was imported as "rhino" Some internet probing says it's probably a knockoff of the earliest JD dozer.with a few "improvements" Most unusual for a dozer, it has a standard 3 point hitch and a 2 speed reversable pto.I bought it for junk iron price, most of the problems I have had are due to very poor quality control. Stuff like missing seals and bolts used where a taper pin should be. Found the strainer for the hydraulic system lying loose in the bottom of the oil tank. Basicly a simple rugged machine, just poor quality control.

LOGDOG · September 05, 2010, 09:10:13 AM

Piney,

I looked at a Yanmar once that I think was considered "gray market". Good looking tractors but I couldn't get myself to feel good about parts and service once I read up on them. Others swear by their little Yanmars though. Fortunately you're mechanical and can spot things that need to be addressed, or maybe are one way but should be another way.

ljmathias · September 05, 2010, 09:13:14 PM

Well, I've got two grey market Yanmars (both red) and one grey market orange tractor (not worth a flip) plus an honestly-Chinese tractor called a Shineau that is now dead but earned its keep many times over clearing the farm. One of the two Yanmars is a small 4WD that smokes some, has problems with a wheel seal on the front right but runs hard and pulls a five-foot finish mower over acres of grass every week or so. The other is a newer and bigger brute, and I must say, it's one of the nicest tractors I've owned- bigger than I like but with plenty of horsepower to pull a five-foot bushhog. Used it yesterday to start clearing space for a Christmas tree farm, and it was chewing up 2-3" oak, sweet gum and some miscellaneous hard and softwoods. Just got a flat, but that's not the tractors fault...

Lj

LOGDOG · September 06, 2010, 09:21:23 AM

Glad those two red Yanmars worked out for you LJ. The one I looked at was Red as well. There are quite a few videos of the little Yanmars working on youtube, pulling plows etc. Where do you get yours serviced and buy parts from?

ljmathias · September 06, 2010, 08:13:21 PM

There's a grey market Yanmar dealer in Olah community just north of here- about 20 miles as the crow does its thing... they're real good at supply and service both, so that makes it easy. If you don't have someone who can get parts for you fast and do non-routine service, then it's tough making a case for buying grey market. On the other hand, the value is high (= performance/cost) and that makes them worth a try. I would have kept my 30 year old Shineau 25 running if I could have found someone to work on the parts I don't know how to fix yet- like a major overhaul and new glow plugs (if it even has them, which I've never been able to confirm). That old tractor even came with a hand crank- tried that just once and confirmed that diesels do have higher compression, which can easily kick back and hurt or break body parts....

Old cars and trucks I can work on easy, been doing that all my life. But the new ones? not so much...

Lj

LOGDOG · September 10, 2010, 09:18:53 AM

.....Latest ....Yesterday I get a call from John Deere. They decided that the water pump on the 450 needs to be rebuilt and now's the time to do it because all the sheet metal is off etc. So supposedly they got that rebuilt yesterday. I guess the tracks were back on and he felt like the dozer would all be put back together today. Still waiting on the remanufactured hydraulic pump for the backhoe to come in.

Snowstorm asked about the charge pump onthe backhoe ...it actually uses the transmission as the charge pump and there are two inline filters on it. Hopefully the filters caught the metal fragments from the tops of the pistons in the pump as they were breaking down. John Deere didn't seem overly concerned about it.

snowstorm · September 11, 2010, 07:23:53 AM

the charge pump is in the trans. it feeds the piston pump. my point was if the charge pump wasnt surplying enough oil it could leed to piston failure.

LOGDOG · September 11, 2010, 09:41:09 AM

Ahhhhh ...gotcha Snowstorm. So maybe it got low huh and that's when the damage occurred? I may know when that happened actually. We blew a hydraulic line on the Backhoe during the loading process and lost the majority of the hydraulic fluid. It was awful. If that can be the cause, then I'd almost bet that's when it happened. Oh well, didn't have a choice but to run it and get it off the road, even if it did do some damage. She'll be fixed up soon. Live and learn. That's good insight for the future. I appreciate it.

LOGDOG · October 22, 2010, 10:04:13 PM

Well these machines finally made it home tonight after being down at the John Deere dealership for months. :

Got to dig a little with the backhoe in their yard and push some dirt around with the dozer to test them out before they went on the truck. Going to take them out tomorrow as long as it doesn't rain and try to do some pushing and digging while it's still dry. I'll get some pictures for the Forum.

Buck · October 25, 2010, 07:08:31 AM

well, how was the opening weekend of Dogs Diggers?

LOGDOG · October 25, 2010, 10:34:22 PM

It was goooood. ;D I took some pictures and video. Now I have to figure out how to post the video to YouTube so I can post it here. I have to say, those machines have some rust and a little ugly to go with but the backhoe is good and strong and worked great raking and digging around my bridge. And that little dozer is stronger than I ever expected. The whistle of that little turbo diesel is music to my ears. Took my about 10 minutes to move the equivalent of two dump truck loads of dirt I had dug out and laid to the side of my bridge. I've missed having a dozer and boackhoe around. Good to have them back. ;) I'll see what I can do about some video clips.

Mooseherder · October 25, 2010, 10:58:04 PM

Once you've named your videos and stored them in your documents , they are easy to find after you click the youtube uploader and browse field.
Good luck with your new toys. ;)