Suggestions for which lime in chinking

[Tom King]

The Type S sets up a lot faster than Type N.  It's still nothing like a concrete mix sets up.  

I'm not sure how much the bond between the logs, and mix is worth anyway.  Most of the old that I've seen is staying in there because of shape.

If you have plenty of time, I'd mix up some Type S, and see how it works at a sample place.  Make other samples with 10 percent, and 20 percent as much White Portland Cement, as there is lime in the mix, and see how they work.  With that small percentage of Portland, it will still breathe, and have some flexibility.

If that doesn't work, I'd try painting the mating surfaces of the logs, where the chinking will go, with Thompson's regular water seal, to keep the wood from sucking the water out.  That Thompson's is nothing but wax in mineral spirits.  The mineral spirits need to outgas away, leaving the wax.

If the lime mix still doesn't seem satisfactory, I'd try a thick layer of Surewall, at least for the outside surface.  I've built 5" thick bases for showers with it, and it doesn't crack that thick, even though it's intended for thin applications.  I have also used it for a barrier on old chimneys, that were plastered over with lime plaster.  All have held up well for years.  It has thick, stiff fibers in it, but you can slick finish the surface, even with all that fiber in it.

Here's another link, from my Favorites folder, that has some formulas for the different Portland mortars, but may be useful for ideas anyway.

https://www.lime.org/documents/publications/free_downloads/fact-masonry.pdf

[DonW]

Wife cuts my hair and piles it around plants to keep the deer away-which works sometime...
Book I'm reading has ghetto thieves who are burglars and talking about stealing human hair wigs that are directional hair vs. thrown away hair-reminded me of this thread-sort of.  ;D

Neighbors of mine kept  Hoflingers but would not pasture them away from the house, afraid thieves would come in the night with shears to clip the manes and tails for their long blond hair, valuable stuff that.
These tips, Tom, are right on, helping to jog my memory, I am by no means a plasterer, but treating the substrate to lessen water getting sucked from the mortar is one I'd forgotten. Not one to go for brand name products I've always just used aliun mixed in water to coat thirsty surfaces. However I will forgoe the Portland and in place try locating trass or puzzolan to adjust the lime for these conditions. 

[Nebraska]

 

 
Been following  along in this thread, just throwing a picture up.
That pile in the back ground is waste from acetylene production not far from the office. It gets spread on fields for crop production around here...  I've always wanted to build a cabin with a stone foundation. (Just because) Mortar wouldn't be the issue as the lime and sand  is no problem. Stone of quantity and size is the issue and yeah maybe time....

[DonW]

Remember what Tom always says, "fresh" lime. Which begs the question, what fresh? Freshly burnt, freshly slaked, freshly packaged? I know it doesn't mean fresh from the time you get it in your grubby hands. 

[Tom King]

Even the freshly hydrated product still has some unattached Oxygen arms on the loose.  Even the ones that are attached to a Hydrogen atom will readily give it up when a CO2 molecule comes along.  I doubt they dilly-dally in packaging it up.  If it's light, and fluffy, it's good.  It won't stay light, and fluffy long, even inside the plastic bag lining in the bags.

If you're old enough to remember the Apollo Moon Missions, you may remember the Moon dust sticking to everything.  That's because it's a large percentage CaO-Quicklime. Those unattached Oxygen "arms" will bond to Many things.  If we could sift 400 billion metric tons of Moon dust on the upper atmosphere, it would cure climate change by absorbing enough CO2 to lower the temp by a couple of degrees.

[Don P]

There was a Union Carbide plant near the mine I posted a link to back in the day, calcium carbide + water makes acetylene gas, yet another use of limestone. There is an old dogtrot log cabin in the county that had gaslight back in the day. The carbide generator is still in the back yard, a house sized version of an old miner's lamp.

 When you get hydrated lime that has been sitting around in our climate it is a lumpy mess. The humidity and co2 is working on it and it is trying to become a rock again. In reading, quicklime should be slaked within a week of burning. If it is bagged hydrated lime it is wanting to finish slaking. If you are slaking quicklime, the longer the better. 

More from reading;

Binders can be broadly classified as non-hydraulic or hydraulic. The hydraulic binders harden through a chemical reaction with water making them impervious to water and therefore able to harden under water. Portland cement, blast-furnance cement (super sulphated), pozzolanas and high- alumina cement belong to the hydraulic binders. High-calcium limes (fat or pure limes) are nonhydraulic since they harden by reaction with the carbon dioxide in the air. If, however lime is produced from limestone containing clay, compounds similar to those in portland cement will be formed, i.e., hydraulic lime.

Non-hydraulic lime is also produced from limestones with a high content of magnesium carbonate. It is less easily slaked, but some of the magnesium oxide remaining unslaked may carbonate and produce greater strength than high-calcium lime.
Hydraulic lime is produced by mixing and grinding together limestone and clay material, and then burning it in a kiln.
It is stronger but less fat or plastic than non-hydraulic lime. During the burning the calcium oxide from the limestone will react with siliceous matter from the clay forming dicalcium silicate. This compound may react with water forming 'mineral glue'- tricalcium disilicate hydrate. The reaction is slow and may take weeks or months, but after some time a very good strength is achieved.

Which leads to a question. If hydraulic limes set in the presence of water, how is it slaked without it setting up?

Portland cement;

When cement is mixed with water the chemical reactions which are so important for the hardening start. The most important is the forming of tricalcium disilicate hydrate, 'mineral glue', from hydrated calcium oxide and silica.

Pozzolans;

A pozolana is a siliceous material which, in finely divided form, can react with lime in the presence of moisture at normal temperatures and pressures to form compounds possessing cementious properties. Unfortunately the cementitious properties of pozzolana mixtures are highly variable and unpredictable.
A wide variety of materials, both natural and artificial may be pozzolanic. The silica content constitutes more than half the weight of the pozzolana. Volcanic ash was the first pozzolana used when the Romans made concrete from it for many large and durable buildings. Deposits of volcanic ash are likely to be found wherever there are active or recently active volcanoes. Other natural pozzolana are derived from rock or earth in which the silica constituent contains the mineral opal and from the lateritic soils commonly found in Africa. Artificial pozzolana includes fly ash from the combustion of coal in thermo-electric power plants, bumt clays and shales, blast furnace slag formed in the process of iron manufacture, and rice husk ash and the ash from other agricultural wastes.
The energy requirement for the manufacture of portland cement is very high. By comparison, lime and hydraulic lime can be produced at less than half the energy requirement, and natural pozzolana may be used directly without any processing. Artificial pozzolana requires some heating, but less than half as much as is required for lime production.
Pozzolana and lime can be produced with much less sophisticated technology than portland cement. This means that pozzolana can be produced at relatively low cost and requires much less foreign exchange than cement. However, it takes two to three times the volume of pozzolana required to make a concrete with the same strength as with portland cement and this adds to the cost for transport and handling.
The main use of pozzolanas is for lime-pozzolana mortars, for blended pozzolanic cements and as an admixture in concrete mix. Replacing up to 30% of the portland cement with pozzolana will produce 65 to 95% of the strength of portland cement concrete at 28 days. The strength nominally improves with age since pozzolana reacts more slowly than cement, and at one year about the same strength is obtained.

[DonW]

I wish I knew more about using hydraulic, very specialized work . It is certainly available to me when I'm in the Netherlands.  I've used trass or puzzolan a few times when I wanted either a shortened hardening timespan or more water resistance or more hardness. Equal parts puzzolan to lime.   In a way it simplifies using lime while not sacrificing a thing since the period the work requires protecting is significantly shortened. When the requirements of a the work demand more water resistance than lime with puzzolan can give then you move the on to hydraulic. I experimented with adding old brick slurry and this had similar effects. It also has a dramatic effect on the color. 

[Don P]

I'd offer to have family smuggle it in but their bags are already full of speculaas spice and eatibles  :D

[DonW]

No need, you can get it from kremer out of their nyc office. 

Calix Blanca NHL 3.5 Fillers & Building Materials | Kremer Pigmente Online Shop

[DonW]

I hate to say it Tom, but the wasps here make a better plaster than the plasterer, and from local materials.