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Question on Finshing a Big Cookie

Started by Lud, March 30, 2013, 05:58:48 PM

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Lud

Building a table out of a 4' by 3' Curly Willow cookie about 3 " thick.  My client saw it drying in my barn and asked if it was "spoken for".   I've had it for a year and it came out of a standing dead tree.  The cookie was waxed thru last summer and was inside  and did not change much at all. Flattened and planed and sanded one side in the Fall and the golden, swirly flames within the red are extraquisite.

I've built a cantilevered grid and legs out of cherry to support the cookie as a table top without it needing to to be exposed to any structural forces.

So while I talked with the client about a few bowties to tie things together, we also talked about bar epoxy as a finish but now I'm having second thoughts.  Wouldn't the epoxy lock in the topside and prevent movement on one side only?  Am I asking for trouble with the heavy gloss?

What should I be considering?   ???
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Jay C. White Cloud

Hey Lud,

Sound beautiful, could you post some pics?  I use epoxies a lot, but not for this kind'a work (sometimes maybe?) so I'm with you.  I need to see it to get a handle on the issue.  If it hasn't split anywhere that is great.  It sounds like the slow drying and wax really helped.  Where would the "box ties" go?

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

beenthere

Quotewe also talked about bar epoxy as a finish but now I'm having second thoughts.  Wouldn't the epoxy lock in the topside and prevent movement on one side only?

If you go this route, just put it on evenly on both sides instead of just one. The two part epoxies do have some elasticity to account for some movement, but the cookie will likely eventually get a crack or three.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jamesamd

All that is gold does not glitter,not all those that wander are lost.....

SwampDonkey

It's been common practice over the years that folks would use two part epoxy on cookie rounds. The reason was two fold, to bring the rings out and to limited the checking. It is not fool proof against checking though. But my experience is the checking is more hairline and not wide open checks. I have a cypress root done in epoxy, but it has some hair line checks, and not wide open ones. Bottom line is, don't go into it thinking it's not going to check with epoxy applied. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Lud

I'll get a pic or two ASAP.  My friend had been given this 10' tree trunk, standing dead, that had been topped.  He needed my bigger Stihl, 28", get it down.Cutting it shallow and wedging as we went, the willow cutting easy, we got all the way thru and the tree just stood there!  Had to hang a 60" Logrite on it and do chinups to get it to tip over!

The tree species must have some multistem characteristics.  There are bark inclusions and you can see  a half dozen different stems bonded into the trunk.  So for strength and design, the bowties will add interest and insurance.  I intend to use inch thick ties across the stems' separations  and will do  a few on the bottom also to balance the stress.

I'll dampen the top of the cookie and get the pic.   The grain is awesome.
'










Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Lud

Here's the pics of the big cookie.



 



 



 

Tried to catch the "flames" in the last pic.



 

And here's one showing the grid design of the table frame to keep structural forces away from the cookie.    I'll have to get a pic of the bottom side of the cookie as I outlined and routed the same grid pattern into the bottom of the cookie so it can't shift too much but can move seasonally.
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Axe Handle Hound

Lud, I never thought I'd say this to another man, but you've got some nice legs.  :)  And that willow cookie is pretty impressive as well.  If it were me, I'd drench both sides of that thing in hot linseed oil and let it soak up every bit that it could take rather than go with the epoxy.  Like SD said, it's going to move and I would hate to have to fix a thick epoxy surface that cracked.  The added bonus is that the linseed oil will really bring out the flame and grain figure.  I wouldn't be afraid to topcoat with a urethane or something with good flexibility, but ideally only after it's been at its final destination for a year so you can be reasonably sure it's acclimated.  Just my thoughts on it for what they're worth.


POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

SwampDonkey

That sure is a bute Lud. Nice lattice table support.  :)

A lot of times the burl type tables are more stable than one thinks. Mother has a huge burl bowl table with glass top. The support is a steel frame the burl sits into, kinda basket-like.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lowpolyjoe

Quote from: Lud on March 30, 2013, 05:58:48 PM
The cookie was waxed thru last summer and was inside  and did not change much at all.

That sure is a beauty.   What does it mean to say it was "waxed thru"?   I wanted to dry some smaller cookies and some chemicals were recommended to me but i don't remember if anyone mentioned wax?  Thanks

Jay C. White Cloud

Hi Lud, et. al.,

Love the legs on that stand!   8)  Great job.

I wish I could pull out the article but I can't remember what binder it is in?  It is from the late 70s early 80s and it speaks to permeability of different finishes.  What did the use as a test?  Slabs and Cookies.  I can't remember the entire article but I can give you snippets that might be of interest.  Most of the oils (flax, tung, etc.) all actual took on water when exposed to splash or humidity.  I thought that was interesting.  Next was polyurethanes, which was as bad as oil, and in some cases worse.  Then came epoxies, and at the time I was big into designing zoo and aquarium enclosures, so I just knew they would be at the very top...100% waterproof.   ::) :P Back to school for with me, I was wrong!  You had to coat the wood over 8 times to achieve 98% resistance to taking on water.  I was shocked.

So now, all these years later,  I still will use epoxies when making artificial wood or stone for those types of enclosures, but when it comes to tables, bars, and the like, I stick to just plane old oil and wax.  Easy to finish, easy to refinish and durable enough.  If the piece is going to see an insane amount of traffic like a commercial bar, then I would do 10 coats of epoxy, or a custom fit peice of glass.  What was the 100% waterproof finish, in as little as two coats, maybe three,  good old wax...bees wax being the best, go figure.  So, on a cookie like this,  I would leave the wax finish on bottom, and then just do a traditional hand rubbed oil finish on top.

Again Lud, you did beautiful work!

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Lud

Glad you like it, Everybody.  Thanks for the kind words.

Lowpolyjoe,  ' Waxed thru" means I coated both cut surfaces with Anchorseal for 6 months or so on a longterm dead piece of very soft, light wood .  As in,  thruout the summer, not thru the wood.

Seems like the consensus is going away from epoxy.  It will not have huge traffic to deal with so maybe epoxy's not needed.  I am planning on putting some ties in across the bark inclusions for security.  There are also two stools coming along to complete the set.  The stools will have the same curve on the legs tho narrower for proportional considerations.   Will post more pics in a few. 8)
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Warbird


lowpolyjoe

Quote from: Lud on April 04, 2013, 09:00:23 PM
Lowpolyjoe,  ' Waxed thru" means I coated both cut surfaces with Anchorseal for 6 months or so on a longterm dead piece of very soft, light wood .  As in,  thruout the summer, not thru the wood.

Thanks Lud.   

And as others have said - that table/stand is a really nice piece of work.  Good luck with the project.

LAZERDAN

Warbird   I LIKE your thinking !   now i won't be able to stop singing the cookie song.      Thanks       Lazerdan

Lud

Here's a teaser.......   I heated up some boiled linseed oil and coated the cookie.  I wound up heating another batch as it was taking so much.  It had shown a 6% dryness so I figured it was like pumping formaldyhyde  into the body to plump it up it's "cheeks".

The bowties are the same cherry as the support frame and stools so while they are lighter it should all work together when I show you the final pics.   Getting close as the customer came by and handed me a deposit! ;D



 

and here's a couple of closeups of the golden flames in the red storm



 



 


I'm thinking of titling the piece , "Kites in the Storm"
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

WDH

I like the way that the bowties are variable in size.  That will be a beautiful piece, and the oil seems just right.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Tree Feller

Wow! That's a stunning piece, Lud. Very unique. Thanks for sharing it with us. 
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

SwampDonkey

Nice bow ties and the linseed brings the grain out quite well. It's a great looking table top.  8)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Axe Handle Hound

Turning out beautiful Lud.  Can't wait to see the final product.

lowpolyjoe

Looking great.  Fitting name :)

How does that bowtie process work?  Are they thin veneers glue'd on top?  Or are there channels with thick bowties shaped dowels plugging them?  Would that be chisel work? 

Dodgy Loner

That's awesome, Lud! I'm glad you decided to forgo the epoxy top - unless it's needed for protection in a high-moisture environment, I really prefer a good ol' oil finish on a natural piece like that. You done good! :)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Fla._Deadheader


Always admire your work, Lud.

I am VERY interested in how you will plane-sand that cookie, and keep out uneven results. I have a 4' X 4' X 3' thick piece that I want to make into a computer desk that will sit in the corner of a room. It has the natural curve of where the limbs branched out, and that will be where I will sit, at the inside corner so to speak.

My biggest problem with wide-large pieces is not having the small dips from sanding. I don't want to have to build a long belt sander on a roller table.

One day, I will have to drag this piece out, but, it weighs around 100 pounds in it's sawn condition. It also has a slight bow to it, because of the 4 limb intersection where they branched out from the main trunk.

I also have 2-3 cookies from the tree that are 3'-4' across to use or sell, so, I am watching your thread develop.

Thanks for starting the thread.
  Harold--Deadheader
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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