l53

Joey Grimes · March 30, 2016, 09:04:45 PM

I plan to get started putting up form for slab this weekend I'm thinking slab size 10 foot × 14 foot .I would like my doors to be at least 8 foot tall so in thinking 10 foot walls ? I'm trying to think of everything .

WDH · March 31, 2016, 08:03:35 AM

You want to be able to load the kiln with a max of 1000 BF. So, figure how many layers of wood that will be, figure about 2" per layer (the board plus the sticker). Add some for what you will stack the wood on, for example 6x6 timbers on the cement floor. I use pallets to sticker my wood on, so I have to add the height of the pallets. If you plan to load with a tractor with pallet forks, you have to take into account the headroom you need to get the rack into the kiln without hitting the top of the door or the seals. I can load 960 bf of 10' lumber, 3 pallets of 320 bf each. However, with 8' wood, I cannot load 3 full pallets at 320 bf because there are more layers of 8' lumber to get the bf, and I cannot get the third pallet into the kiln without the rack of the pallet forks hitting the top of the door opening. That reduces what I can load to about 800 bf. I wish that my kiln was taller, but I was limited by where I built it.

You also have to take into account the width of the door opening with the doors fully open. I would add a foot to each side of the door opening on each side which will be determined by the longest length of lumber that you plan to dry.

rjwoelk · March 31, 2016, 11:22:30 AM

Joe how much insulation did you put under your slab.

Glenn1 · March 31, 2016, 08:41:54 PM

I used 2" of solid styrofoam (Dow I think) and covered it with 6 mil plastic sheeting to protect the foam from the concrete slab.

Joey Grimes · March 31, 2016, 11:56:24 PM

The rack on the loader forks is why I wanted my doors 8 foot tall .I may regret my chamber being 10 foot tall when it comes time to sterilize the load.

YellowHammer · April 01, 2016, 08:21:09 AM

Quote from: Joey Grimes on March 31, 2016, 11:56:24 PM
The rack on the loader forks is why I wanted my doors 8 foot tall .I may regret my chamber being 10 foot tall when it comes time to sterilize the load.

Sterilization is only a function of insulation and door seals, not so much internal volume. It takes only a low percentage of BTU's to heat dry air, as opposed to heat loss through the concrete, the walls, ceiling and most of all, and most difficult of all, the vent and door seals.

Double foam or rubber door seals, trailer cam locks, etc are the way to go. Also, I've now made a habit of putting a few quick strips of the clear packing tape over my vents, even through they are closed, to get a sure nuff, positive seal when sterilizing my loads now. It only takes a little leak to make a big difference, and it's important to remember that half the kiln is pressurized, the other half is at a slight vacuum, so a little hole will make a huge difference.
Both the L53 and the L200 vents leak, even through they are different styles, so a little tape over them for the sterilization cycle saves a lot of time and electricity. I also use an infrared laser non contact thermometer to routinely check for hot spots, indicating leaks.

Joey Grimes · April 01, 2016, 09:53:41 PM

Thanks yh I really appreciate your advice .I got started moving some dirt today where the slab will be it won't be long now .I called getting some prices on materal and I was shocked on what it is going to cost for insulation 2x4x8 polystyrene sheets 38.00 is that about right?

YellowHammer · April 01, 2016, 10:53:46 PM

Quote from: Joey Grimes on April 01, 2016, 09:53:41 PM
Thanks yh I really appreciate your advice .I got started moving some dirt today where the slab will be it won't be long now .I called getting some prices on materal and I was shocked on what it is going to cost for insulation 2x4x8 polystyrene sheets 38.00 is that about right?

Yes they are ridiculously expensive, considering how many are needed. On the other hand, they are a very good insulator, don't absorb moisture, and easy to work with.

xlogger · April 02, 2016, 07:11:02 AM

You will surprise on what it will cost when it over. With the nyle 53 included I have near $11000.00 in my kiln. I was thinking when I started it would around $7000.00, everyone tells me I still live in the 70's prices, maybe I should think more about my selling prices.

Glenn1 · April 02, 2016, 09:23:47 PM

Quote from: xlogger on April 02, 2016, 07:11:02 AM
You will surprise on what it will cost when it over. With the nyle 53 included I have near $11000.00 in my kiln. I was thinking when I started it would around $7000.00, everyone tells me I still live in the 70's prices, maybe I should think more about my selling prices.

That is exactly the same thing that I realized when I had finished the kiln. I also had the $7000 figure in mind and that reality faded quickly.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · April 03, 2016, 08:15:54 AM

So, let's figure the cost using $11,000 (which is a bit higher than the $10,000 I have used in the past) and that the kiln will last 10 years (that is, you will depreciate the kiln on your taxes using a 10 year schedule). So that is a total of 520 weeks or 3652 days. The L53 holds 1000 BF. That means the capital cost for a kiln is $3 per day per MBF whether the kiln is drying, sitting empty or has a load of lumber ready to come out but you are deer hunting so cannot unload it. This means that if someone wants you to dry a load of oak that is green and will take 30 days, the capital cost alone is $90. Add energy cost, interest on the loan, overhead, profit labor, taxes, insurance, etc. of course, you do get the depreciation tax credit. It would be much better to offer free air drying and then dry the lumber in the kiln for 10 days for $30 capital cost. Energy costs will run around 600 kWh for 30 days, but only 200 kWh for 10 days. If you are lucky enough to pay 12 cents for electric, this energy cost is $72 or $24. Stacking costs and loading, unloading and is stacking are about $30 per MBF.

NOTE 1: The cost of the L200 is less due to the economy of scale...four times bigger, but the compressor and kiln building are not four times more. Stacking, labor, energy, insurance, profit, etc. would be the same (roughly) in the L200.

NOTE 2: This sort of cost info will be covered at the upcoming (April 2016) Southeastern Dry Kiln Club meeting and at the Ohio Valley Dry Kiln meeting.

NOTE 3: You might say the L50 kiln will last 15 or 20 years, which cuts this cost, but using a longer time is not a wise business decision.

NOTE 4: The VT solar kiln costs about $2000 for 1500 BF, but it only dries three or four loads per year and will last maybe 8 years without major maintenance. So, solar drying capital costs would be about $40 per MBF.

xlogger · April 03, 2016, 08:39:29 AM

I had an extra $1000 at least for hooking it up to my owb, heat exchanger, insulated pipe, extra value, etc. But so far I've not cut the heat on from the nyle.

Joey Grimes · April 03, 2016, 11:53:08 PM

X logger what brand is your owb ? I would like to put one in the future as heat for my shop as well as heat for kiln .Our neighbors have one of the hardy outdoor wood heater that heats a old large home with little insulation and it works great but they use a lot of wood .

xlogger · April 04, 2016, 05:06:10 AM

I have the CL5036 Central Boiler.
Use it to heat hot water, my house , a hot tube and now the wood kiln. When it gets down in the 20's I sometimes have to cut my gas heat on in the house to keep it around 72° but it will stay around upper 60's if I don't do that. My heat exchanger is a little too small for the house.

WDH · April 04, 2016, 07:45:29 AM

Pre-air drying the wood is the way to go. That way you can fully load the chamber at 1000 bf and run the compressor full out. If you load the kiln with green wood, you can only fully load the chamber with oak. If you are drying green pine, you can only load 400 bf in the chamber or you will get a water-dripping-down-walls sauna. You have to size the load based on species and moisture content. With maple, walnut, cherry, the medium drying woods, you can load about 600 bf of green wood. So pre-air drying makes a huge thru-put impact with the L53.

Joey Grimes · April 04, 2016, 07:11:57 PM

I do plan on air drying before going to kiln I have about 6000 bf air drying now .The only thing I plan on going straight to kiln is a custom cut order mostly cypress .My plan is to keep my solar kiln loaded with live edge slabs.

Joey Grimes · April 04, 2016, 07:16:37 PM

What I gathered from talking to Stan with nyle the capacity of the 53 is a lot more than advertised with well air dried stock providing you can add enough heat during the sterilization process.

WDH · April 04, 2016, 08:31:03 PM

Given the chamber size specs that Nyle recommends, you can load 1000 bf of air dried lumber.

Joey Grimes · April 08, 2016, 09:22:59 PM

I got some dirt moved and form built for kiln hopefully will pour concrete next week. I plan on posting pictures of the entire construction process .

WDH · April 09, 2016, 07:29:56 AM

What did you decide on your chamber size?

Joey Grimes · April 09, 2016, 09:03:48 PM

Slab demension is 10x14'6 That should give me 13'6 inside. We got fill dirt in an got forms set insulation in plastic down and wire in now if my concrete is delivered on time Monday we should be in good shape !!!